Can someone explain imperial slavery?

[BlackSpaceCowboy]

I was about to post asking that the Empire end slavery. It didn't make any sense to me that humans in the far future would have reverted to something as barbaric as slavery.

Then I checked the wiki

In practice, Imperial slavery is a regulated form of indentured servitude. Imperial slaves voluntarily contract themselves out for a predetermined amount of time to earn money to pay off debts that they could not otherwise clear or support their families.[2] Imperial slaves are guaranteed basic human rights and may exercise free will and self-determination, but still have substantially less freedom than regular Imperial citizens.

If they get paid and it's voluntary then how is it slavery?

I've avoided the Empire because, as a descendant of real slaves, even make-believe slavery makes me uneasy.

I know it's a game and you want the freedom to be a bad guy. But imagine if a game allowed you to transport child prostitutes. Surely, no game would have such an option.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't indentured servitude mostly a way of paying for a voyage to a new land? You were contracted to work to pay off the cost of your transportation. You couldn't quit because you already accepted the transport so now you were indebted. It's not the same as earning money to pay off a debt.

So, are they slaves or just contract workers? Why not call them Imperial Indentured servants if they're not really slaves?

 

[Marklar_]

Yeah I've never liked that it's called slavery, it's really indentured servitude. They should be called Imperial Servants rather than Imperial Slaves.

 

[777Driver]

If they get paid and it's voluntary then how is it slavery?

Reminds me of my time out in the Middle East, A380 loads of workers from Asia on minimum pay, working in the heat to clear debts back home. Thankfully a lot has changed since I first moved out there.

 

[Florenus]

You know that apart from Imperial Slavery there is also proper Slavery in game, right?

 

[BlackSpaceCowboy]

Yeah I've never liked that it's called slavery, it's really indentured servitude. They should be called Imperial Servants rather than Imperial Slaves.

There are slaves in the Star Wars universe but that's a different galaxy with different species.

In Star Trek, there were the Orion slave girls. But again, they're not human.

 

[BlackSpaceCowboy]

You know that apart from Imperial Slavery there is also proper Slavery in game, right?

I did not know that. Can you be a slave trader?

 

[[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos]

Just putting my marker in before thread lock.

 

[Morbad]

I was about to post asking that the Empire end slavery. It didn't make any sense to me that humans in the far future would have reverted to something as barbaric as slavery.

Reversion implies slavery ended at some point. This paints a surealistically optimisitc view of the future, especially of the Elite setting.

If they get paid and it's voluntary then how is it slavery?

Not everything voluntary is voluntary.

I know it's a game and you want the freedom to be a bad guy. But imagine if a game allowed you to transport child prostitutes. Surely, no game would have such an option.

Covered by slaves, imperial slaves, and animal meat.

Yeah I've never liked that it's called slavery, it's really indentured servitude.

I've never liked that people need to use euphemisms like 'indentured servitude' to obfuscate the reality of the situation.

They are slaves. Even if they weren't chattel, they'd still be slaves. And they are chattel, otherwise my CMDR wouldn't be able to buy them in a can, jettison them, and then shoot them out of the sky in full view of Imperial authorities with zero repercussions.

 

[Florenus]

I did not know that. Can you be a slave trader?

it's a "commodity", just like Imperial Slaves are. So yes.

 

[dognosh]

There are slaves in the Star Wars universe but that's a different galaxy with different species.

In Star Trek, there were the Orion slave girls. But again, they're not human.

Still slavery

 

[BDelacroix]

You have it correct. I believe it was labeled slavery to create contraversy.

 

[TiberiusDuval]

I was about to post asking that the Empire end slavery. It didn't make any sense to me that humans in the far future would have reverted to something as barbaric as slavery.

Then I checked the wiki



If they get paid and it's voluntary then how is it slavery?

I've avoided the Empire because, as a descendant of real slaves, even make-believe slavery makes me uneasy.

I know it's a game and you want the freedom to be a bad guy. But imagine if a game allowed you to transport child prostitutes. Surely, no game would have such an option.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't indentured servitude mostly a way of paying for a voyage to a new land? You were contracted to work to pay off the cost of your transportation. You couldn't quit because you already accepted the transport so now you were indebted. It's not the same as earning money to pay off a debt.

So, are they slaves or just contract workers? Why not call them Imperial Indentured servants if they're not really slaves?

Indentured service was kind of semi-slavery. Your contract could be sold to other people, and with some creative mathematics contract owner could make sure that you are essentially never free from contract. Imperial slavery lorewise works out just like that.

What kind of creative mathematics, well contract owner could deduct costs of upkeeping you against payment of contract obligation. And those deductions could be very much inflated. Meaning in essence peonage. There is very good reason why such system is outlawed in most western countries nowadays.

 

[BlackSpaceCowboy]

Still slavery

My point was that it didn't make sense to have humans in the future revert to slavery. It makes sense that non-human species might still practice slavery (e.g. Orion Slave Girl in Star Trek). And Star Wars is a fictional galaxy disconnected from real human history.

 

[Marklar_]

I've never liked that people need to use euphemisms like 'indentured servitude' to obfuscate the reality of the situation.

To my mind, equating indentured servitude with slavery somewhat trivializes the reality of chattel slavery, which is what the word is usually associated with.

Indentured servitude is a form of exploitation, it's not a euphemism for anyone who understands what it means. There are many different kinds of worker exploitation past and present and I don't like any of them, but they shouldn't all be labelled slavery.

 

[Florenus]

My point was that it didn't make sense to have humans in the future revert to slavery. It makes sense that non-human species might still practice slavery (e.g. Orion Slave Girl in Star Trek). And Star Wars is a fictional galaxy disconnected from real human history.

I think the idea for Elite was that it is actually a dystopian future, where people remain... people. With all the bad stuff that humans can do to each other.
Not like Star Trek, where humanity "evolved", forgot money, hunger and all that stuff.

 

[Morbad]

My point was that it didn't make sense to have humans in the future revert to slavery.

Why not?

And with there being upwards of 40 million slaves in the real world today, when, precisely do you think slavery is going to end?

To my mind, equating indentured servitude with slavery somewhat trivializes the reality of chattel slavery, which is what the word is usually associated with.

Indentured servitude is a form of exploitation, it's not a euphemism for anyone who understands what it means. There are many different kinds of worker exploitation past and present and I don't like any of them, but they shouldn't all be labelled slavery.

There are many kinds of honest to goodness slavery and chattel slavery is just one of them. Many forms of indentured servitude also qualify.

Imperial slaves, as depicted in this game, are overtly chattel slaves. Our CMDRs can legally do anything they see fit with them, up to and including destroying them on a whim.

 

[Rudi Raumkraut]

it's a "commodity", just like Imperial Slaves are. So yes.

this is imo the worst part of the (imp)slaves implementation.
At least FDev could have converted them from commodities to PAX once they introduced the passenger mechanic.
That also would make the "controversy aspect" (actually there really shouldnt be one) more "real" as you would trade a person with a name instead of tonnes...

 

[Reggit]

I'm....erm....At this time....I'm not touching this with a ten foot barge pole!

 

[TiberiusDuval]

Heh, I would want option to sell unsuspecting passangers to slavery in some suitable lawless systems. Especially some of those whiners making extraordinary requests.

 

[Marklar_]

Imperial slaves, as depicted in this game, are overtly chattel slaves. Our CMDRs can legally do anything they see fit with them, up to and including destroying them on a whim.

I don't think that's true, according to lore iSlaves have rights (in theory at least). Commanders can legally kill all kinds of people, including by jettisoning occupied escape pods, because this is a psycho space murder game.