A bad night on Elite Horizons....

Loaded up...

LHS 6282

Went back to the asteroid mining area to kill more pirate ships and suddenly had fire drawn on me from multiple sources. Can only imagine I must have hit a federal security ship? My ship was destroyed in seconds even though it has a lot of protection.

Insurance paid... went straight back there and took out a few wanteds but within 5 mins I must have done something wrong because I had feds firing at me again. This time I was able to divert power to engines, boost away, use ECM and make a jump with 59% hull. Had to jump to another system to dock and repair.

Then I went down to a planet to wander about. Made contact with the base and did my first ground base landing. Took my SRV out over the docking bay and drove it around. When I returned my ship had gone down into the hanger and I spent about 20 mins trying to figure out how to get into it again. Finally figured it out.

Those ground bases (the big ones) do look stunning in VR.

All in all it was a bad night for earning money on Elite but I still had fun.
 
So it wasn't a bad night afterall. I too had issues figuring out what I was doing in the SRV the first time I landed.
Almost to the point of self destruction. Got it all worked out now and it's all fun.
Just keep reminding me to remove the VR Headset from that mannequin and slap the thing on my face for a change.
 
I haven't got Horizons yet - I'm waiting for it to come down to about £10.00 (on Steam). Sounds like you have had some adventures, and I look forward to being able to do the same - and hopefully by the time I get it at around the desired price, they will have added a few more things to it (an expansion, in my mind, shouldn't cost £39.00 - they aren't usually 'stand-alone' games, either). Incidentally, what did you do to get your ship back up from the hangar while in the SRV?

Waiting till price drop... That's what I did with Elite earlier this year. Had been deciding for a year whether or not to buy. Eventually bought it on steam sale.

I actually :):):):):)ed about the planned horizons price even before I'd purchased Elite! I used to compare it to Star Citizen and say Frontier should be making Horizons a free update.

I changed my choon after playing Elite though and did something I'd never done ever: Pre-ordered Horizons beta.

I can live with £39 per year for seasonal releases until Elite comes out of beta.

SRV:

The ground space port has a drive in bay leading up to the hanger where my spaceship was. When I drove in there the popup SRV HUD allowed me to select "return to ship". That option only became available when I drove into that bay.

I'm still a noob with SRV. Haven't spent much time in it and still have to configure more controls for it with my HOTAS.

It's fun to drive though.

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So it wasn't a bad night afterall. I too had issues figuring out what I was doing in the SRV the first time I landed.
Almost to the point of self destruction. Got it all worked out now and it's all fun.
Just keep reminding me to remove the VR Headset from that mannequin and slap the thing on my face for a change.

I always have fun it seems. Turned into another late night though.

I must say though the planet stuff is too much for my GPU. I can get away with it on some planets but not when I'm at a ground base. I need to ditch 680 and buy 970.

If you have VR u have to use it. I don't play anything without it now.
 
I haven't got Horizons yet - I'm waiting for it to come down to about £10.00 (on Steam). Sounds like you have had some adventures, and I look forward to being able to do the same - and hopefully by the time I get it at around the desired price, they will have added a few more things to it (an expansion, in my mind, shouldn't cost £39.00 - they aren't usually 'stand-alone' games, either). Incidentally, what did you do to get your ship back up from the hangar while in the SRV?

Really, you believe that statement about expansions?
So when they tack on another expansion to WoW, at around £49-£69 they are not really expanding the original but making a new game by calling Wow, Outland, WoW Draenor, etc.. I guess they are doing the same with GTA l through V, Microsoft's Flight sim series, Fallout 1-4, Assassins Creed, ad infinitum.
Of course you could go the Witcher series where you not only have 1-3 at full price but you also have a few hours expansions play added partway through at £10-£20.

Your definition of expansions needs to be expanded to include most modern games, not just picking out Elite Dangerous in isolation and criticizing its' pricing structure as if this game is being unfair in some way. The games market like all other markets has to be comparative with its' peers.
I think £39 for an upgraded game and a full season of expansions to that upgrade is very, very reasonable. If we get 5 Horizons expansions that is less than £8 per expansion, which in my quick research on Steam, is one of the best deals going on a 12 month old franchise.
You look forward to playing the game. Great, you do that. I am glad though there are many, many Elite Dangerous gamers who are prepared to pay up early rather than penny pinch as they are the ones that keep this game funded without being unfairly critical of it's pricing model.:rolleyes:
 
I must say though the planet stuff is too much for my GPU. I can get away with it on some planets but not when I'm at a ground base. I need to ditch 680 and buy 970.

If you have VR u have to use it. I don't play anything without it now.

I haven't tried VR on Horizons yet, my 770M was getting a bit hot on Ultra setting when approaching planets. I dropped the settings to High and it's running fine.
Hopefully it can still handle VR with lower settings. I am waiting on Asus to release the ROG Laptops with the 980M in February, might have to sell an organ or two to afford one though.
In the meantime, I should just see how Horizon plays on what I have for now.
 
Thanks for your opinion. I don't think landing on a planet is sufficient reason to pay £39.99, in all actuality. I could land on planets in Frontier Elite & Encounters for the price of the one game I bought at the time. Simply to delay planetary landings and charging extra for the privilege is not worth it, in my view. It is clearly *not* an expansion when previous versions of this game had the very element that Frontier now wants to charge extra for.

Perhaps it'd help to think of it in the terms of other online pay to play games? Consider it an equivalence to £4 a month with free updates. They're just charging that four quid a month in one lump sum at the beginning of a year.

I don't have a problem with the pricing model, but perhaps this might make it easier for you to swallow.
 
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Thanks for your opinion. I don't think landing on a planet is sufficient reason to pay £39.99, in all actuality. I could land on planets in Frontier Elite & Encounters for the price of the one game I bought at the time. Simply to delay planetary landings and charging extra for the privilege is not worth it, in my view. It is clearly *not* an expansion when previous versions of this game had the very element that Frontier now wants to charge extra for.

However, I realise that I am probably confusing 'expansion' with DLC - I think the planetary landing element could easily have been sold as DLC and not a 'stand-alone expansion'. Furthermore, the Steam 'Early Access' states:

'Early Access Game
Get instant access and start playing; get involved with this game as it develops.
Note: This Early Access game is not complete and may or may not change further. If you are not excited to play this game in its current state, then you should wait to see if the game progresses further in development.'

So, without any guarantees, I am going to wait and see 'if the game progresses further in development' before parting with more cash.

'Grammatonfeather' - thanks for that, glad you are enjoying your experience and for the tip regarding planetary landings - I'll keep it in mind for when I do eventual get Horizons.

You see there you go again, "I don't think landing on a planet is sufficient reason to pay £39.99", It isn't just landing on planets that is going to cost £39.99 is it? Your being disingenuous to bolster your flawed argument. The fact is you will get a number of expansions as well as Elite Horizons with that money, or DLC if you want to call it that. And that my friend, if it matches the number of DLC/Expansions as Ships had, will be around £8 each DLC/expansion for a recent and still expanding game. Even by Steam standards that is pretty cheap.
 
I haven't got Horizons yet - I'm waiting for it to come down to about £10.00 (on Steam). Sounds like you have had some adventures, and I look forward to being able to do the same - and hopefully by the time I get it at around the desired price, they will have added a few more things to it (an expansion, in my mind, shouldn't cost £39.00 - they aren't usually 'stand-alone' games, either). Incidentally, what did you do to get your ship back up from the hangar while in the SRV?

Well, there is two trains of thought you can go with regarding this issue.

1. Be realistic and think a little out of the box. Forget about labels as DLC or Expansion or whatever they may be called. Look at the actual level of work the developers have to get done for whatever they are releasing for that addition to the game. Even if you based it entirely on the time spent developing, you'll see the base game took a year, it released as 1.0 and was sold for 40 quid. Then season 1 took a year while the 2.0 version of Horizons was being built, and having consumed the exact amount of time to get there, it's only natural it'll be worth the exact same price. When season 3 comes about next year, they'll have worked on it for a year too! Even disregarding whatever specifics they are working on, they are constantly working on the game day in day out while you play it day in day out. No matter what you call it and when you release it, a years worth of game equals about a years work of development work.

2. Don't think about any of that but try to be fair. Most people say it's not worth the price now and they would be OK with a discounted price. The game will get a discounted price when it's more fleshed out and enriched with features in a few months. Will it be fair then to ask for a full price or will they still think it's worth only a discounted price because it's old news now? Will you be OK with full price when that time comes?

I can't bring myself to believe the 2. way of thinking is fair to the developers at all. I don't know what people are doing for a living but I'm curious as to how they would react if their potential customers constantly declared their work unworthy of the asking price for now and when it logically should be worth it, it is old news and automatically deserves a discount. Such a sick way to view the world and appreciate value.
 
Yup, Horizons isn't just landing on a few planets and it's more than just one expansion. I detest subscription games so I will never pay £10 to play EVE but I don't mind the cost of Elite during beta phase.

Re: 770m. I guess there isn't much u can do to cool a laptop except one of those laptop cooler bases with fans underneath.

I'm not a fan of laptops I must say.
 
Thanks for your opinion. I don't think landing on a planet is sufficient reason to pay £39.99, in all actuality. I could land on planets in Frontier Elite & Encounters for the price of the one game I bought at the time. Simply to delay planetary landings and charging extra for the privilege is not worth it, in my view. It is clearly *not* an expansion when previous versions of this game had the very element that Frontier now wants to charge extra for.

Well, here you go again. Do you know how much developmental work 'landing on planets' entails in ED, which is a totally different game with a totally different set of expectations projected upon it? Would you be satisfied with the level of detail in those other earlier iterations you keep talking about? No? I guessed so.

Planetary surface generation and everything that goes with it, including the SRV driving model entails at least as equal if not more development work as the base game. If you can't appreciate this, your comments are not credible, I'm sorry but this is the way things are.

I'll say it again, I wonder what your reaction would be to people putting an arbitrary value on the sweat of your brow completely disregarding how much you struggled to achieve what you created, never caring that you probably know better when you asked for the price in the first place.

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OK, so what other features do you get with Horizons? Is it possible to deploy an MB4 Mining Machine? I recognise driving around a planet is a new feature, but that's about it so far. Military missions on planets are nothing new.

Haha, so a deployable mining machine is the breaking point for you? Then it would be worth the price?

This is like going to look at a house completely built but without electronics installed and saying it's worth maybe a third of the asking price but being satisfied once the TV and wifi is in. That is how much effort involved is different between those two tasks. Entire planet generation algorithm with proper physics, new flight and driving model compared to a mining machine game mechanic.

Please.
 
'Cynaqq' - It is my understanding that Frontier developed Elite: Dangerous from a fan base that *donated* lots of money to its development (not that I was one). As it is, I would have preferred Elite Dangerous to be a single player, off-line, game. Thus, I might have purchased such a game at full price, but knowing it lacked planetary landings I probably would not have done so. If I did, then I'd expect to by expansions, DLC, at various stages at a lower price - such as I have done for Dragon Age Inquisition, Total War series, Crusader Kings II, etc. I've spent pounds on those games - getting extra DLC (sometimes buying the GOTY edition, which includes *all* the expansions for the same price, or slightly more, than a full game).

I see nothing in Horizons that I immediately need. Perhaps because I spent many years playing the originals, just flying to stations, and don't consider planetary landings as much of a novelty. And to suggest that Horizons is not all about planetary landings seems to be nonsense - even the name 'Horizons' is suggestive of the nature of this game.

I'm not arguing against your right to choose. You can choose not to buy it. I only object to your total disregard towards the development work it entails and the quick and superficial dismissal. Well, going by that, the base game also didn't do anything new except do things which were done before but with better graphics. Does it completely invalidate all the effort that goes into it?

I don't see anything I need in an Aston Martin or Rolls Royce either. I'm totally happy with my little yaris. Do I go on Aston Martin forums and post totally distasteful remarks on the uselessness of handcrafting a car instead of mass producing something which does the same thing more cheaply?
 
Clearly Frontier have developed a very good game, and with much effort. However, I am a consumer and must consider my own interests before that of a business whose objective is to make profit from me. My objective is to get as much out of a business for as little cost to myself. I do not thank the gas board, or the electricity company for all their hard work bringing me gas and electricity - as well as high bills. I expect the to do so, and take advantage of the best prices. Frontier Developments is a company, their objective is profit - first and foremost. They are not my friend, or yours. Get real.

Yeah, electrical company and the gas board is totally the same thing as a video game, which is made entirely for entertainment and is totally not a necessity. If electricity and gas didn't work, your quality of life would instantly diminish considerably. Since modern life makes it incredibly hard to get by without these necessities, the gas and electricity companies are in a position to exploit you over your basic life needs. They exploit your needs with high bills and you expect them to do their job. Frontier Developments (or Aston Martin for that matter) are in no position which gives them power over your livelihood so they have nothing to exploit. Microsoft is in this position for example because they are essentially a monopoly. Without them, if computers are considered a life necessity, which they are, and the business computing relies on Microsoft more or less because no one knows how to use anything else, you'll want to get the most out of it for as little cost as possible. If your business depend on it that is.

With FD, you, me or anyone does not have a business arrangement as in a business to business arrangement. It's retail. Frontier doesn't have to provide you with anything and you don't have to buy anything from them. This is a much more basic level of interaction compared to the gas company. Your livelihood doesn't depend on FD in any way.

They are a business and they have to make money to stay afloat at least but this doesn't make their first and foremost objective necessarily making money. I have a friend who is an artist. His only objective is to be the best artist he can ever be. This takes all of his time because it is really hard work and time consuming so he needs all the money he can get when he sells a painting. He paints wonderful paintings and has a unique style. He is also a business in the sense that he sells these paintings for money and he pays taxes. Totally legal business transactions take place when someone buys a painting from him. I've never seen anyone call him on the phone or barge into his studio to demand he paints exactly how they wanted their painting to be. I see one or two every now and then trying to lower the price on one. This is totally understandable because the price is totally arbitrary and set by my friend. It doesn't go like a forum bashing session however. They politely ask if he can go any lower, because they really like the painting, and expecting this, he goes 1-2 thousand dollars lower, they consider if they can pay the rest and if they are convinced they buy it. No one goes on a tirade in front of one claiming the painting is not even that good and has little exciting content, the technique isn't sophisticated enough so it is only worth a third of what he's asking.

I'm real. I don't think FD as my friends. I don't see it as my objective to get the most out of them for as little cost to myself either. I wish for them to make a good game which I can buy if it's worth buying. I evaluate their work and asking prices on information I have from my previous gaming purchases, and I asses if what they'll sell me is worth the price. If I deem it unworthy, I just won't buy it! What I also won't do is to put an arbitrary price on it which seems attractive to me and post it on the forums on the hope they'll either lower the price on the current product or take it as a wake up call and start to make lots of more stuff to make it worthy of the asking price in the eyes of an anonymous forum denizen.

Your previous forum post puts you in a position which prevents you from denying this accusation of me because if it's your objective to get the most out of FD as a business with as little cost to yourself, these posts of yours will have to be seen as a means to reach that objective. So you actually have a hope they'll either lower the price or they'll up their product, however unrealistic, if enough people complain. Just because they actually do have something you want but you want to get it for as low a price as possible because it's your objective.

I'll give you a surefire way to prevent FD from profiting from you, their main objective. Don't buy any of their products. How you go about this interaction is just insulting to everyone including you.
 
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... went straight back there and took out a few wanteds but within 5 mins I must have done something wrong because I had feds firing at me again. This time I was able to divert power to engines, boost away, use ECM and make a jump with 59% hull. Had to jump to another system to dock and repair.

Two words: HAZ RES

Problem solved. (Police are just a liability and annoyance in RES areas, pirates in HAZ zones will scan you, but always leave you alone if you carry nothing...)
 
Clearly Frontier have developed a very good game, and with much effort. However, I am a consumer and must consider my own interests before that of a business whose objective is to make profit from me. My objective is to get as much out of a business for as little cost to myself. I do not thank the gas board, or the electricity company for all their hard work bringing me gas and electricity - as well as high bills. I expect the to do so, and take advantage of the best prices. Frontier Developments is a company, their objective is profit - first and foremost. They are not my friend, or yours. Get real.

I will leave you in the more than capable hands of Cynaqq :D But given your comment I find myself wondering why you are asking for more micro transaction items to be in the store? https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=219644 You do understand that these are almost pure profit to FD don't you?


Glad to here you had a good night playing Grammatonfeather. I went to pick up the reward from the Christmas CG - going to try to get some PvP in tonight now I have some loose change for the insurance company ;)
 
So how did this post turn into yet another tiresome tirade about the FD game pricing policy then? Thanks to the OP for sharing his day...
 
Just jumping in on the topic of purchasing expansions:

I bought elite dangerous the weekend of Thanksgiving and loving it so far. I am holding off on buying horizons for two reasons: 1) I am waiting to see if this game has longevity for me. If I am still around in two or three more months, maybe I'll look into buying it and probably only on a steam sale just like I got E:D . 2) I haven't seen or experienced all that the base game has to offer. Ive done mission grinding for Sol permit(few weeks right there), a small exploration trip(I do want to do more and longer ones), a bit of mining... Kind of deciding if I want to stick with mining for a bit longer or get into piracy and/or trading/smuggling. Kind of want to see all of the game before I drop any more money into it.

Too many times, with purchases and pre purchases alike, I have been burned on a game where it didn't deliver as I thought or I just got bored. I'd say I am a bit more cautious with how quickly I spend my money in terms of online games, but when I settle into a game for a while I like to support it. Path of Exile being one of them (started in June, and I come back for 3-5 week stints)
 
Clearly Frontier have developed a very good game, and with much effort. However, I am a consumer and must consider my own interests before that of a business whose objective is to make profit from me. My objective is to get as much out of a business for as little cost to myself. I do not thank the gas board, or the electricity company for all their hard work bringing me gas and electricity - as well as high bills. I expect the to do so, and take advantage of the best prices. Frontier Developments is a company, their objective is profit - first and foremost. They are not my friend, or yours. Get real.

Your reasoning is flawed here... What I mean is there is an error in your code leading to incorrect conclusion...

Yes, Frontier is a business and part of that (or all in many cases) is to generate revenue. Game design is completely different to utility energy supply because it's an art. It involves the dreams of artists and visionaries. Computer game industry has in fact been negatively impacted over many years by big companies who are purely profit driven. Still they are reliant on game developers and game development teams are actually motivated by their love of the craft. Frontier isn't controlled by a publisher like EA and so it's not all about money. Since kickstarting became a thing (along with steam early access) - games are once again being produced because dreamers have visions extending beyond mere profit. Braben and Roberts are two visionaries who offer more than electricity and gas (depending on what they've eaten). So while you have no interest in thanking energy companies who are purely driven by greed/profit in most cases - Game design is an art and while you may way to beat them down to the lowest price to suit yourself... I prefer to pay towards the development so long as the cost is within my budget. Currently the seasonal pricing is ok for me. I would draw the line at subscription games charging £10 per month. If Elite ever went that route I would stop playing it.
 
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