A Beluga Buff Thread (now with facts and figures)

Van R Flyheight

Van R Flyheight
Seeing that the Type-9 is receiving the much needed buff to put it back on top of the trade king ladder, is it time the Beluga received similar love?

Below I'm going to present an argument for this buff using facts and figures in regards to the passenger and cargo space of the Beluga and similar ships of it's size. If you've already run those numbers before then feel free to skip that and make your comments, otherwise sit tight.

At present an all economy cabin build will produce these numbers:

Beluga Liner
Max Passengers: 184 (152 shielded)
Max Cargo: 368 (304 shielded)

Anaconda
Max Passengers: 202 (194 shielded)
Max Cargo: 468 (452 shielded)

Type 9
Max Passengers: 170 (154 shielded)
Max Cargo: 788 (756 shielded)

Federal Corvette
Max Passengers: 212 (196 shielded)
Max Cargo: 616 (584 shielded)

Imperial Cutter
Max Passengers: 204 (172 shielded)
Max Cargo: 792 (728 shielded)

As you can see the Corvette and Cutter clearly do better than the other three but considering the price difference and rank requirements, they can't really be considered as being in the same class. As for the other three, the Type 9 rightly does better on Cargo and also rightly lacks in passenger capacity, really who would want to travel in that thing (refugees excluded). However the Anaconda out performs the Beluga in passengers and cargo both shielded and unshielded. As a result the Type 9 is best at trade but the Anaconda is best at passenger transport rather than being a middle ground between them. My proposed buff then is to give the Beluga an extra class 6 and class 5 slot and the results would look like this:

Beluga 3.0
Max Passengers: 232 (200 shielded)
Max Cargo: 464 (400 shielded)

The result is a ship that is better for carrying passengers and slightly worse at carrying cargo than the Anaconda. It also gives the Beluga the most separate internal compartments which is a key factor of passenger transport when you take VIP missions into consideration. Add the improved versatility of an Anaconda and the price difference remains viable.

Now before anyone jumps in to say that the advantage of the Beluga is luxury cabins, is this actually an advantage in a ship of this size? RNG will occasionally produce a sightseeing mission for a luxury cabin but the chances of multiple missions going to the same location are very small and this applies to bulk A-B too. The Dolphin is perfect for single luxury cabin sightseeing missions but in a ship like the Beluga, you're just carrying unnecessary bulk. One option would be to get RNG to produce more luxury missions but I believe this would mess with other gameplay too much.

I like owning ships but struggle to find a purpose for this one. Please give the Beluga some love.
 
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timmeey86

T
Nicely elaborated. While I do like the fact that the Anaconda is reasonably good at almost everything, I too believe there should be at least one non-faction ship for each playstyle which outperforms the Anaconda in that specific field. E.g. DBX/AspX for exploration, Type-9 for trading and the Beluga for transporation. In my opinion, this would add even more diversity to the game. In the current state of the game, I always seem to end up flying the Anaconda rather than a ship which was specially designed for the task I'm doing.
 

Van R Flyheight

Van R Flyheight
Bob Lighthouse said:
Off hand, your numbers seem off.
An Anaconda carries 194 economy passengers with shields by my reckoning;
4 x 32 = 128
3 x 16 = 48
2 x 8 = 16
+2

128 + 48 + 16 + 2 = 194

https://eddp.co/u/tbmpgSuo
Click to expand...

You are quite correct. Kind of embarrassing when you consider that I used an Anaconda for many months while passenger running. Thank you for pointing it out, I have updated the figures. All the more reason to buff the Beluga in my opinion.
 

Van R Flyheight

Van R Flyheight
Allchemyst said:
Agreed, for slightly different reasons.

I'll add my voice to yours and sustain that luxury cabins are litterally not worth it at all...

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...are-pointless-right-now?p=5404514#post5404514
Click to expand...

Just read and repped your post Allchemyst. Couldn't comment though as the discussion was locked. I fear FDev don't wanna hear our gripes on this:cool: well the Type 9 got its needed buff so there is always hope.

Also thanks Bob, I appreciate it. This subject has been bugging me for a while.
 

Van R Flyheight

Van R Flyheight
After running some builds I've realised the problem is even worse than I originally thought.

Economy Beluga Build
Economy Anaconda Build

Yeah, I use Roguey before anyone says it, I find the UI much clearer. So not only does the Anaconda carry way more passengers but it also does it faster, further and safer for only 45mil more which is nothing considering the numbers we are working with. The anaconda also benefits from being able to run a 4A reactor with a 4C Bi-weave and still have more shielding than a Beluga with a 6C Bi-weave which needs a minimum 5C to run. I went with 5A on the Beluga for the heat efficiency which gave spare power for shield boosters and still numbers go in favour of the Anaconda. The builds could still be wiggled further. For instance you don't need A rated thrusters or power distributors but it's nice to be able to boost away from the station or an attacker if needed.

I just don't understand why this ship is so bad at the only job it's meant for.
 

CPTVICKERS

CPTVICKERS
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/396801-Beluga-Buff-When?highlight=beluga+buff 14+pages of \/\/TF happened to the belly!

This ship is borked from the get go. Anaconda is currently the best non-luxy large ship. . . No real need to say it again, but while fdev is listening, wth not... Conda has more/better slot arrangement, conda has better base armor, conda has better base line jump range (avg, not optimal, and avg is all that really counts anyway) Conda spanks beluga modified jump range, max eco passengers (filled gills, no shields) 202 (granted you can't fill it for lack of cargo, 200 is still more than 180) Conda is easier in and out of the slot, Conda arguably easier to dock via viewpoint, Conda weapons placement needs no explanation, Conda can sacrifice one cabin.... size 7 shields...., Conda better PD, conda OP PP, you know me.

Now for belly's best... Umm, it handles better. Pitch roll and yaw rates feel nicer, well balanced. Belly has one of the best views of all ships, seamless. It is slightly faster in underrated module load outs.

Ok, so we established it can't compete with the littlest large mulit-role ship that can. What can it do? Luxy cabin passengers. But wait, those are only available in size 5+ so all those other inferior slots are useless for the galaxy's most "luxurious luxury liner". So the only thing that actually makes it superior, is its ability to carry luxury cabins.

So, if its claim to fame is "luxury" what is really broke here? The game.... What makes this damn thing useful is the ability to carry snobs for gobs of credits... Well, how often do "drive miss daisy 10ly to this station" missions pop up? If you do any passenger missions, you know the answer, rarely. Imagine if you could chose at least 4 luxury missions at a minimum. All "balanced" so that your investment in the larger, purpose built ship, was rewarded accordingly.

If the game is not broke, well, maybe something should be addressed. Get rid of some of the useless cabin sizes, say the 3's and add another cabin only 5 and a couple ones to accommodate a scanner, and or docking module, ya know, for "that guy".

I air more on the game is borked side. Its a luxury liner, and should be carrying classy people to do classy things, like trade Imperial sl...citizens, or buy organic herbs for salads like onionhead, or transporting Lori Jameson to Kongga for a visit to her favorite distillery.... (she likes the sauce if you missed that reference)

Maybe a less classy version of said ship is needed, one made with federation pride, ya know, with grey paint and wires hanging out of the cockpit. A core dynamics treat. Carries more size 5 and six eco cabins than any other ship in the game, stuffing a full 300 head of cattl.... errr passengers in its gullet.

I really like the ship, I love the view, and I love piloting it. Dumping some weight, giving it some real jump range, and either the missions it needs, or the passenger capacity we should expect from the largest ship (dimensionaly, I hear ya cutter fans (now T10), I has one too) in the game.

Just looked at this from above, good work, +1
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...are-pointless-right-now?p=5404514#post5404514
 
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Captain Willard

Captain Willard
If the other ships are better at bulk cargo, why don't you fly them? The beluga is a passenger ship, not a freighter or multirole. I fly the ship as intended and don't do the bulk trade. 3 passenger ships in the game and some can't stand it not being tailored to their wants.
So I vote no on any changes. OH. The beluga has already had a buff.
 

Van R Flyheight

Van R Flyheight
Captain Willard said:
If the other ships are better at bulk cargo, why don't you fly them? The beluga is a passenger ship, not a freighter or multirole. I fly the ship as intended and don't do the bulk trade. 3 passenger ships in the game and some can't stand it not being tailored to their wants.
So I vote no on any changes. OH. The beluga has already had a buff.
Click to expand...

I'm guessing you saw that I added the figures for cargo and instantly assumed that I was asking for the Beluga to get more cargo space. It's not what I am asking and if I were then I would have suggested something like a class 7 or 8 slot. You did sort of hit my point though, the other ships are all better at bulk trade. If that's the case then why isn't the Beluga good at carrying passengers since that's it's only job. The reason I added the other figures was because I was trying to show a way to increase passenger capacity without overtaking other ships in cargo.

I realise my post is long but if you are going to poop on it then please read it first.
 

Zurie

Z
I think the answer is to just have passenger only slots for those ships just like combat ships have military slots.

In a passenger only slot you should be able to equip 3E cargo or lvl 5 passenger cabins.
 

Van R Flyheight

Van R Flyheight
mmm... I kinda see what you are saying but not sure if you realise that these ships already have passenger only slots (just check the builds I linked above). If you're suggesting that we change the way these slots work then this would fix the Beluga but probably break the Dolphin and Orca too. This would involve actually changing the passenger slot mechanic across all ships and for that to make sense, it would have to be that each Class is the next stage higher for passengers. 2 becomes 3, 3 becomes 4, 4 becomes 5 and so on but 6 can't become 7. The result is this:

Dolphin

Original Passenger: 42 (38)
Original Cargo: 84 (76)
Modified Passenger: 84 (76)

Orca

Original Passenger: 96 (88)
Original Cargo: 192 (176)
Modified Passenger: 160 (144)

Beluga Liner
Original Passengers: 184 (152)
Original Cargo: 368 (304)
Modified Passengers: 240 (208) *much lower due to lack of Class 7 passenger cabins*

Now look at our original Anaconda while taking cost into consideration. The Dolphin suddenly gives a wild edge for newcomers to trading and picture the salt of all those people that hated Smeaton runs.

Anaconda
Max Passengers: 202 (194 shielded)
Max Cargo: 468 (452 shielded)
 
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Van R Flyheight

Van R Flyheight
And down the list it goes. I guess the Beluga is not that much of a loved ship as the title is clearly not clickbaity enough. However does this lack of interest show a need for a buff. Perhaps no, perhaps we all love it. Oh well, can't say I didn't try.
 

Funny

F
Yeah, I agree with the op. It would be nice to see a fuel scoop mod as well though.
 
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CPTVICKERS

CPTVICKERS
Captain Willard said:
If the other ships are better at bulk cargo, why don't you fly them? I do, the point was it is not as good at passenger missions as a combat oriented multipurpose ship. The beluga is a passenger ship, not a freighter or multirole. Yes, now where are all the elite luxury passengers, to fill the luxury cabins, so I can do the only thing it should be great for? I fly the ship as intended and don't do the bulk trade. [intended by whom? this is not Apple, and Braben is not Gates] By "bulk trade", I presume you elude to yourself, not cattle herding bulk passengers. The anaconda still carries more passengers, of any variety other than luxury, period. 3 passenger ships in the game and some can't stand it not being tailored to their wants. While one could consider this a shot across the bow, I will take it as a cheeky remark, eluding that only another ship would sait the community's neediness. I myself made light of the idea, by suggesting a federal beluga. If that appeared serious to you, I assure you, I am not a comedian, and will stick with my day job. So I vote no on any changes. Thank you for your opinion, forums are here for everyone to have their say and discuss. I say this with sincerity. OH. The beluga has already had a buff. Anyone playing since the ship's release will remember this. However, its "buff" was a weight reduction due to its abysmal jump range, even when modded. This did not improve the utility of the ship beyond less jumps from A to B.
Click to expand...


The point of this thread is improving the "best" purpose built passenger ship, because it is not the "best" passenger ship. If you are content with it's current layout, and wish no additional passenger only cabin slots, that is fine. If added, you can leave them unoccupied for no penalty. The rest of us who also enjoy the ship, but wish its full potential realised, by actually being the best passenger ship in the game, would like a slight boost. That boost could be any one of the following, more luxury missions, more dedicated passenger slots, a competitive jump range....(for long range luxury) Again, what makes it the best, right now, is nothing. Luxury is the only thing it CAN do, that the competitors can't. Always winning by default doesn't always make you a winner.

If you are reading this, you are here for one of three reasons, you hate the beluga and think its a waste of fdev time, you love the beluga and would not change it for the world, or you love the beluga and want more for it. Of course I would like nothing more for tons of people to just post +1 with a quote of what they want, but if it truly is perfect as is, please give a list of pros that outweigh the cons. Convince me and several other 5+page long threads that we are wrong, (>not saying anyone has or will-->) without getting off topic or resorting to devaluing someone else's opinion through slander.
 
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Van R Flyheight

Van R Flyheight
Appreciated Vickers. I think that guy just didn't read my OP and instantly thought I was demanding for the Beluga to become an ultimate cargo freighter. You clearly got my point though. The Beluga only has one job and it quite frankly does it poorly.

I'd say I was in the third category maybe. I don't love the Beluga but I want to. I want to own one and I've certainly got the cash but how can I justify flying it when my Anaconda can already do the job better. It can also trade better, fight better and explore better. Just give the poor Beluga this one thing FDev please.
 

Poonjabby

Poonjabby
The Beluga needs to be the best passenger hauler. The T9 needs to be the best freighter(Fixed in 3.0) I'd be really happy if the Beluga didn't overheat every time you jump! I won't even get into the Fer-De-Lance.

Poon
"When a Thargoid farts in Maia my Beluga overheats in Bunda"
 

MK Regular

M
More space for passengers on the beluga would be a very welcome buff, but my first priority for a beluga buff would be an additional size 5/6 internal to allow for a shield, scoop, and SLF.

Also, an additional size 5/6 slot would increase the maximum shielded passenger capacity by 32 to 184 (better than the cutter, within spitting distance of the conda and corvette). From there, making the beluga the BEST shielded passenger transporter would be as simple as adding another size 5 (regular or passenger).

I propose the following internals for the beluga:
- 2x6
- 2x6 passenger
- 2x5 passenger
- 2x5 NEW
- 1x4
- 4x3

This would give the beluga an passenger capacity of 216(200 shielded), making it the best passenger liner in the game. As for cargo, it would be able to carry 432(400 shielded) tons of cargo leaving it as the worst of super heavy ships for moving cargo.

Any thoughts?

Edit: just realized OP did the exact same thing but with 1x6, 1x5 instead of 2x5. Either way, the shielded capacity remains the same, but I do prefer OP's approach. Hopefully I will learn to fully read the OP before commenting.
 
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