A Call for More Communication (Roadmap?)

[evrard]

This has been discussed several times, but I wanted to have the conversation again to stress how important it is to many players.

The community managers have mentioned in several threads that they are working on better communication regarding updates. Most recently, @Chante Goodman posted that Frontier prefers communicating bigger updates near the release, but understands the desire for more activity within the community. That said, bigger updates include 1.1, 1.2, and 1.3 and smaller updates are those similar to 1.3.3.

I can't help but feel like there is a disconnect somewhere, as even smaller updates have lacked communication. There are many complaints about the stability and smoothness of the game, understandably so. I believe much of this frustration can be alleviated via a roadmap. I can't remember a game that has launched on PC that wasn't buggy at launch. However, the difference between buggy games that are viewed negatively (i.e., Horizon Zero Dawn) and those that are viewed positively (i.e., Death Stranding, Mount & Blade II) is developer communication. The easiest way to convey this information is via roadmap. While some roadmaps are highly specific with specific details regarding content and features, others are vague, perhaps only revealing a release window, or how much future content to expect.

Given that, if the roadmap changes, the community will, inevitably, be disappointed. However, I firmly believe that the disappointment felt from a missed deadline, or changing content, would be far less than the frustration felt from the lack of communication. A lack of communication, to me, feels very similar to denial, or worse, refusing to accept responsibility. As with any game engine, there are significant limitations, the COBRA engine is no different. While these limitations cannot be overcome due to the complexity of the issues, acknowledging them is better than pretending they do not exist. Further, if the community knew what are these limitations are (rather than assuming what they are), reporting bugs would be more efficient and less cumbersome on both the player and developer side.

A potential roadmap could be as simple as "Year 1: DLC 1 (Spring), DLC 2 (Summer), DLC 3 (Fall), DLC 4 (Winter)" or as complex as "Year 1: DLC 1/Free Update 1.1 - Artic Pack, 4 Animals / 3 Exhibits, Added Features/Fixes: xxxxx (mid-October).

The community is understanding. We all know, especially during COVID, that plans change - but with communication, the disappointment turns into compassion and appreciation. All the while, strengthening and facilitating discussion within the community.

I call on Frontier to reconsider their position on the matter. A more open approach with their community would behoove players, developers, and the community as a whole. Because as it is, only with us, the community, that Frontier can continue to develop and publish their incredible games.

Edit: Grammer

 

[NL_Mutso]

I remember a player from another Frontier game Elite Dangerous came on this forum to comment on a previous thread just to say: At least PZ is getting communication.

I have no objection against: A potential roadmap could be as simple as "Year 1: DLC 1 (Spring), DLC 2 (Summer), DLC 3 (Fall), DLC 4 (Winter)"
I don't like the detailed roadmap, I like surprises and too much detail would ruin the fun for me.

And with the announcement about the free update & Australian DLC, only a few days before releasing and they posted 1 pic a day, and people still needed more.
That was only a few days - can't imagine this for several weeks/months. Not convinced it would have the desired result

A lack of communication, to me, feels very similar to refusing to accept responsibility

When it comes to bug/gameplay issues I agree.
When it comes to new features/DLC/requests, that's a no for me.
Let me try to explain this: When you buy the game - you are fully aware of the features. If you don't like it - don't buy it. Some people bought the game, didn't like some features and "demand" the dev to change the game. I'm not a big fan of this attitude. When you buy the base-game, you don't buy the obligation of getting features/DLC for this game.
I always consider DLC / feature updates as an extra but I also realize this genre is a rare genre and people have waited for this for many years.

I do want to point out - devs should provide a fully working game and progress reports on fixing some big bugs/issues would help !!

I know some people demand to know if Frontier is planning Marine/Aviaries for PZ.
I'm not sure if they are willing to accept: Frontier isn't working on this or Frontier has plans for this in 2022.
That could also be part of communication. Frontier already announced they wouldn't overhaul certain features and after several months people still aren't over it.

I play Battletech and the dev announced a couple months ago: "After 2 years we are stopping official development of this game - this is the last update. It's done"
A rare move by a dev but I really respected that.

 

[NZFanatic]

Frontier doesn't do roadmaps. They never have and probably never will. I don't think the specific fanbase for this game is any more important or special than any of their other games, therefore I can't imagine why they would give us a roadmap now of all times.

 

[LN]

Frontier doesn't do roadmaps. They never have and probably never will. I don't think the specific fanbase for this game is any more important or special than any of their other games, therefore I can't imagine why they would give us a roadmap now of all times.

Exactly.

 

[Swjosdotschka]

When I came here, the communication was awesome. When Planet Zoo launched, they actually said in the threads which bugs they were aiming to fix in the next update and which would be fixed a little later down the line. Community managers where everywhere, listening to feedback, giving honest replys. These days we hear from them 5 days before a new dlc and three days after. And that's it. As I said in the update thread, even the new cheat code was forgotton in the forums. So on this front, the communication clearly can improve again.
I'm not an expert, but I understand a community manager to be the bridge between the Devs and the players. We had pretty interesting threads in the forums, asking about what influences performance and on some of them it would have been really awesome to not have only player speculation,. but a little developer insight. No one is asking to give away the coding, but saying "Doing X does impact your CPU load, doing Y can reduce it a bit." Like grouping foliage or whatever (if that is the case. Asked it once, never got an answer.) There is a lot chances of engaging with the players in a meaningful way without giving away a detailed road map.

BUT: There are some thing regarding a roadmap I'd like to see.
1. If they are aiming to re-think their current DLC model in the future, due to player requests. I don't need details, just an honest answer if they took our feedback into consideration or if they have good reasons not to.
2. If they are still searching for a solution for diving animals or if they already gave up on that, maybe asking us if we want seals and otters without diving nevertheless.
3. An honest answer if previous games are finished or not. The last part annoys me the most, to be honest. In my opinion, a company should clearly state if a DLC is the last DLC or not and not just let it to player expectations when they release a "complete edition" for console and therefore passivly answering a question that was brought up 1000 times. The current "we have nothing to announce on new DLCs for...." makes me furious. I am STILL a fan of clear "no"'s, no matter if I like the answer or not.
4. More honest COVID Communication. The radio silence between the south america pack and the australia pack was demaging for me. We all understand that a pandemic turns the world upside down in every company. But lets just talk about how it effected the time frame. Will there be further delay? Will we get an autumn themed DLC in winter now? Won't we get any DLC anymore this year, because of the delay?

In my opinion, Frontier showed clearly in the past that they are listening to players feedback and they give away really cool free updates and you can tell they put their hearts into their work. But in my opinion it would be better to show this more frequently and not "surprise us" that they listened with every update. The way it currently is players get easily frustrated because a bug that makes the game unplayable for them is not addressed and then SURPRISE without a word there is an update, fixing that issue. But until then frustration had a lot time to boil which could make it seem like Frontier never listens or only very late.

In short: I would love to see the community managers at least once a week engage in a meaningful way with the community, answering feedback and not only posting on "fun threads". (Not saying the latter is a bad thing, it's nice to sit on the same table and just chat a bit once in a while as well).

 

[random goat]

And let's not forget this mysterious soundtrack release. Info about it is nowhere to be found in the forums.

I pretty much agree with the sentiment of the OP. I don't think people are solely asking for a roadmap here but for more communication in general. "We're working on fixing this bug/issue" isn't really a roadmap. Even if so, the fact that Frontier doesn't do roadmaps doesn't make their position regarding this topic more valid. Many companies do so and I believe a majority of players would appreciate knowing what it's being worked on and a basic layout of what's to come. Eg. "Expect a DLC in mid Autumn", "Flying animations are almost impossible to accomplish with the current engine", etc.

 

[Cocolori]

I don't disagree with wanting more communication although from Chante's comment that they are hiring new staff and the fact Bo left plus covid I suspect some of the issue may simply have been a lack of people. I know there were Twitter posts etc. but that's less time consuming and specialist than people trying to answer specific forum questions.

I wouldn't mind a general roadmap but personally I'm not particularly in favour as I do think vague ones are fairly meaningless and only prompt more questions and detailed ones are inevitably wrong.

On the issue of 'are you ever going to diving etc'. Experience would suggest that they are always up front if they are seriously not considering something. In Planco they said we won't do water parks, we won't introduce weather although that didn't stop people asking. In Planco we asked a lot about more terrain paints on different maps, they didn't say anything because they didn't know how or even if it could be done. The devs searched for a solution and came up with the custom biomes which was the best compromise they could do and a good solution.
Disagree or not I can tell you that they won't say anything if they don't know a solution that works for their vision of the game is possible. If they've ruled it out because they don't want to do it or they can't they will tell us up front.

 

[jcp011c]

Me personally but I don't feel we have to have roadmaps (though they are appreciated). But we need more than what we got between April with the SA release, and late July early August when they announced the color variation work they were doing. Yes, they post on facebook and other social media quite a lot - fun facts about animals, community challenges, creator spotlights, and that's all good and well, but it gave no sense of the direction of the game. They had game updates a few weeks after the SA release, but then 3 months of game progress silence. It wasn't a good feeling, it felt like we were left in the dark. I'm not saying we need constant updates on what they're doing but something - no matter how vague - monthly would be nice. I know they can't promise things until it's official but so don't make promises of when they're coming or it's a for sure thing, just saying you're working on something is helpful. Hopefully we'll see more information between now and December (when I feel strongly the next pack will probably be, give or take a month)

But to be fair it seems like many gaming communities are fickle, taking hints the merest snippet of information, and hyping them up until there's no chance but for them to be disappointed. But much of that is caused because many gaming communities are desperate for any information. Of the half dozen "substantial" and current (still working on content) games I play regularly, there's only one company that is fairly good about information between content. Ah well, on the other hand Frontier is not the worst by any means.

 

[NL_Mutso]

Frontier doesn't do roadmaps. They never have and probably never will. I don't think the specific fanbase for this game is any more important or special than any of their other games, therefore I can't imagine why they would give us a roadmap now of all times.

I actually wanted to post something similar, deleted it - this one is much better and you're completely right.

In my opinion, a company should clearly state if a DLC is the last DLC

Going with the general communication with almost every dev, that basically never happens. I mentioned Battletech but a lot of players commented it was extremely rare to have this kind of communication. Without going into detail: I think it's a weird thing to ask from any Dev.

If they are aiming to re-think their current DLC model in the future, due to player requests. I don't need details, just an honest answer if they took our feedback into consideration or if they have good reasons not to.

I think they stated many times they read/consider suggestions and value feedback. I don't think they need to address a specific request if they already made their point clear?
In this case: I'm expecting every answer to be the wrong one.

4. More honest COVID Communication

I really disagree with this one. Most companies don't know what to expect in the next days/weeks/months when it comes to their daily business.
Just a scenario: Would you accept it if they announce: "The COVID19 situation is having a big impact - don't expect DLC for 2020. If we are able to, we'll release it - We are expecting a DLC release for Q1 2021" ?

No one is asking to give away the coding, but saying "Doing X does impact your CPU load, doing Y can reduce it a bit."

I would really like such advice and that kind of communication.

 

[NL_Mutso]

And let's not forget this mysterious soundtrack release. Info about it is nowhere to be found in the forums.

I pretty much agree with the sentiment of the OP. I don't think people are solely asking for a roadmap here but for more communication in general. "We're working on fixing this bug/issue" isn't really a roadmap. Even if so, the fact that Frontier doesn't do roadmaps doesn't make their position regarding this topic more valid. Many companies do so and I believe a majority of players would appreciate knowing what it's being worked on and a basic layout of what's to come. Eg. "Expect a DLC in mid Autumn", "Flying animations are almost impossible to accomplish with the current engine", etc.

Someone pointed out that a lot of devs don't actively promote soundtracks for their game? At least not the steam ones. Looks like a job for the actual artist.
(tbh, there aren't that many in the store)

We really agree on the "we are working on fixing this bug/issue". At least a comment in the issue tracker with confirmed bugs.

A bit similar to what I asked Swjos but do you think the community would appreciate: "Don't expect DLC this year" or "Flying animals were never planned for PZ and we have no plans of including this"?
I've seen some comments on the hitbox thread and people were unable to accept & appreciate that they don't expect to overhaul this feature because making it smaller will create issues. That's also part of more communication.

Just to say: What if the communication is the opposite of what you want or expect?

Maybe some comments in this thread come across a bit harsh but I think a par of this community only wants a specific kind of communication and unable to accept any other answer.

 

[Swjosdotschka]

Just to say: What if the communication is the opposite of what you want or expect?

It's better to know, burry hopes and find a work around than hoping that someday they finally might fix it. I personally am more free to appreciate other things if I can rest other cases that bug me to rest. That doesn't mean I need to be happy about them or can't voice that I think it is the wrong decision made. But at the end it puts a fullstop to everything.

Same with "last DLCs" by the way, and at least back in The Sims 1, Sims 2 and Sims 3 days even EA was upront about saying something would be the last add on for that installment. For JWE it feels to me like we hit the break full speed and I'm left with a whiplash, because I wasn't prepared for support to end THAT soon. I was indeed expecting water dinos (and now I'm getting nervous that we won't ever see water animals in PZ and Frontier wouldn't even tell us straight forward).

I know some people might think that we could just always assume it's the last DLC or that Feature X will never come. But people function differently and not everybody can think that way. Honest communication is, in my opinion, the key to give everybody a chance to have a calm mind about something.

 

[PeppyPepp]

When it comes to bug/gameplay issues I agree.
When it comes to new features/DLC/requests, that's a no for me.
Let me try to explain this: When you buy the game - you are fully aware of the features. If you don't like it - don't buy it. Some people bought the game, didn't like some features and "demand" the dev to change the game. I'm not a big fan of this attitude.

I agree with everything you said, but just want to point out that Frontier advertised PZ as having animals that would be different from each other and that didn't happen. We got closer to that with coat variations update, but still not what they advertised.

I do agree with your general statement - if you know what the game offers, you buy it and still don't like it then that's on you. Especially now where you can look up gameplays on Youtube. I always do that before purchasing the game.

 

[NL_Mutso]

I do agree with your general statement - if you know what the game offers, you buy it and still don't like it then that's on you. Especially now where you can look up gameplays on Youtube. I always do that before purchasing the game.

Thank you. In short: That's the point I was trying to get across.
The main reason why i stopped reading reviews (early 2000s) is because a lot of reviewing sites/magazines were wrong about certain game features. I look up gameplays from YT, just to get a general impression of the game - so I agree on that one.
And reading the (steam) forum is really helpful to get a certain vibe of the game. If 9/10 player reviews are bad and they have a legit reason for it. (giving PZ a bad review because there aren't penguins - don't pay attention to those)

I bought my fair share of "disappointing" games. If anyone knows who Peter Molyneux is -> knows a lot about how gaming companies overhype certain features. Or just promise things that aren't completely there. I feel there's a discussion when "unique" is mentioned - but that's a very personal POV. Mine is shaped by previous experiences and never took certain things that literal. I know some people don't share that opinion but it also makes it easier to accept certain things about the game.