Horizons A concern about "Engineers"

[Dave G]

I, like many people in the game, own multiple ships, which are configured to support different roles (e.g. Asp Explorer for exploration, Cobra IV for combat, Ananconda for trading, etc, etc.). I am concerned that with the new Engineer missions, that, for example we may require to deliver some mined materials, some traded commodities, and the booty from a bounty kill), we will be unable to make use of these other ships to complete missions.

In order to achieve this example mission, you would need a ship that is configured for mining, trading and combat. Because we cannot swap ships when they are holding cargo, this would mean that I could not switch to my pre-configured ships to achieve parts of the mission, and instead I would need to re-configure the same ship a number of times, which will be painful at best, and at worst, we could lose upgraded components because we have to replace them with a refinery, for example.

There are two ways we can get around this. One is to provide player storage in stations, which I know is not part of this release but is "on the radar". The other is to provide us a way of delivering these multi-requirement missions in multiple stages (i.e. deliver the mining items first, then come back and deliver other components, until they are all delivered and we can complete the mission). The mission "state" is held with the engineer, and he will wait for us to complete the mission.

Please FD, to reduce the pain that Engineers will introduce, consider these options.

 

[Mike Evans]

Only a very small part of an engineer's requirements are in the form of cargo commodities (e.g. 1 unit for a small hardpoint modification). The rest are all with micro-resources which are not locked to a ship at all and these will be what you need the most of.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Wait and see how it works first before speculating on the unknown.

If indeed it does work like you suspect, that would be a serious issue that should be reported during the beta, since it would in effect make it exceedingly difficult to complete certain things.

 

[BigBossLucas]

Wait and see how it works first before speculating on the unknown.

Are you listening KID?, Agony Aunt has spoken!

 

[Xander422]

I, like many people in the game, own multiple ships, which are configured to support different roles (e.g. Asp Explorer for exploration, Cobra IV for combat, Ananconda for trading, etc, etc.). I am concerned that with the new Engineer missions, that, for example we may require to deliver some mined materials, some traded commodities, and the booty from a bounty kill), we will be unable to make use of these other ships to complete missions.

In order to achieve this example mission, you would need a ship that is configured for mining, trading and combat. Because we cannot swap ships when they are holding cargo, this would mean that I could not switch to my pre-configured ships to achieve parts of the mission, and instead I would need to re-configure the same ship a number of times, which will be painful at best, and at worst, we could lose upgraded components because we have to replace them with a refinery, for example.

There are two ways we can get around this. One is to provide player storage in stations, which I know is not part of this release but is "on the radar". The other is to provide us a way of delivering these multi-requirement missions in multiple stages (i.e. deliver the mining items first, then come back and deliver other components, until they are all delivered and we can complete the mission). The mission "state" is held with the engineer, and he will wait for us to complete the mission.

Please FD, to reduce the pain that Engineers will introduce, consider these options.

I think I see your point here. If we're talking about the same thing... in my case I have got upgrades to my weapons and other equipment already which I don't want to loose when swapping for mining kit. So when it asks for a mined commodity... effectively I can't get it on my ship. Mine is a small ship (courier) as well... I think for smaller ships the problem is compounded as there's less to swap out.

 

[Xanador]

Only a very small part of an engineer's requirements are in the form of cargo commodities (e.g. 1 unit for a small hardpoint modification). The rest are all with micro-resources which are not locked to a ship at all and these will be what you need the most of.

I think he refers more to the mission system than to the requirements of upgrading a ship. I have a similar Problem. I upgraded the class 8 shield of my cutter recently. Do I have to buy annother one (or at least a T9) to store i/not loosing it, if I want to do cargo runs with a clas 6 shield?

 

[rrobes]

I think he refers more to the mission system than to the requirements of upgrading a ship. I have a similar Problem. I upgraded the class 8 shield of my cutter recently. Do I have to buy annother one (or at least a T9) to store i/not loosing it, if I want to do cargo runs with a clas 6 shield?

I reported this as bug. My FAS is parked because it can't accommodate the cargo from my Python. That is due to the Engineer related stuff I acquired. Heck, you can't buy a new ship until you sell off all of your cargo, including all the stuff that you have spent scouring the galaxy by mining, USS stops, ship interdictions and missions. The other issue are the interdictions. I can't go into a compromised NAV without being immediately set upon by any and all NPC's wanting my "tasty cargo", same thing in HIRES, HAZRES. Then there are the interdictions when you are traveling, all for less than 10k of Engineer stuff.

Either take the engineer items off the NPC menu or please give us ability to store stuff.

 

[Khromm]

Only a very small part of an engineer's requirements are in the form of cargo commodities (e.g. 1 unit for a small hardpoint modification). The rest are all with micro-resources which are not locked to a ship at all and these will be what you need the most of.

A problem arises when you need to upgrade more than one module (multiple shield boosters for example, or multiple weapons), or want to ensure you can have multiple attempts to get the upgrade you want though. Especially since certain commodities are only available from one source, be that mining, mission rewards, or combat. Even more so when trying to move over to a combat build without cargo space (for example, I've got the Praesodymium (sp?) needed for the next upgrade I want, but now need to obtain a combat-sourced material that I'm short of, so want to move from my mining python to my vulture to obtain said material, since I don't want to risk losing my commodity or python, but cannot do this since I have to take my cargo with me...). Otherwise it becomes a case of farm the combat materials well before trying to find the commodity(which is a massive case of RNG if it's only available as a mission reward). Plus, if I want to add a FSD upgrade to my Vulture, it's not really feasable to have to apply that mod to my Python first, since the Python needs a bigger FSD to get anywhere than the Vulture can handle. Same kinda applies to shields, power plant, etc. If I've successfully modded my Vultures non-essential components like armour, shields and FSD interdictor, I don't want to have to fit a cargo hold to be able to upgrade my FSD drive...

We either need to have the transfer of cargo between ships be optional (i.e. you *can* store cargo on a stored ship) or we need warehouse space (rentable at 100cr/ton/day, payable when retrieving said cargo would be more than acceptable).

 

[Nerwan]

Only a very small part of an engineer's requirements are in the form of cargo commodities (e.g. 1 unit for a small hardpoint modification). The rest are all with micro-resources which are not locked to a ship at all and these will be what you need the most of.

Yes, this doesn't seem to have been true, virtually all of the major upgrades require different cargo types as opposed to materials. I've started using a second account to store the 25 or so items of cargo that I've had to collect so that I can still use smaller ships etc without losing the cargo.. surely not the intended solution..

 

[Hexcaliber]

. Especially since certain commodities are only available from one source, be that mining, mission rewards, or combat.

Except for rares which have always been restricted to a single location, all the required commodities are available from more than one source. There was a link to a spreadsheet knocking about the forums that someone has set up to list everything I think the inara web site also maintains a list.

 

[Khromm]

Except for rares which have always been restricted to a single location, all the required commodities are available from more than one source. There was a link to a spreadsheet knocking about the forums that someone has set up to list everything I think the inara web site also maintains a list.

You mean this one?: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=248275

A *lot* of the commodities are apparently only available as mission rewards. Many of which are listed as "common"... And several of the blueprints requiring those components require others that are listed as "rare..." Not all of them, obviously, but several of the level 3 blureprints do. So, that means that you now consider those commodities to be rare? (Hell, there's at least one blueprint that requires both Platinum and combat-drop items). Plus, you still need to have a ship suitable to complete that mission, AND have cargo space to recieve the reward. Good luck upgrading your bounty hunting/courier mission running Eagle...

And that does kinda ignore the need to fit cargo bays to your Vulture/FDL in order to be able to upgrade components that you can't feasably transfer from another ship.

 

[Heater]

The problem is that in the Beta you could do everything with "fish" however, now like the OP I have different ships for different rolls and in order to collect some of the materials required it requires mining etc... this is the problem I can mine the materials needed with out any problem, BUT here lies the issue, say I need a total of 8 items for all the level upgrades, and I want to to this for all of the ships, i.e. FSD range, so I take the mining ship out mine the materials, head back in and switch to the cargo ship, no problem all eight are moved, however if I want to take one of my combat ships (no cargo space) I first have to go fine the module swap out the configuration etc.... and as RNG is the way FD decided to go, chances are you will need to make multiple attempts to get the results you want, now try to do this in and FDL/Vulture etc....
In the end I just gave up for now as it's not worth the time and effort, Plus the fact that as an Elite combat pilot, I have the constant interdictions if there is any thing in the cargo hold.

 

[Xander422]

The problem is that in the Beta you could do everything with "fish" however, now like the OP I have different ships for different rolls and in order to collect some of the materials required it requires mining etc... this is the problem I can mine the materials needed with out any problem, BUT here lies the issue, say I need a total of 8 items for all the level upgrades, and I want to to this for all of the ships, i.e. FSD range, so I take the mining ship out mine the materials, head back in and switch to the cargo ship, no problem all eight are moved, however if I want to take one of my combat ships (no cargo space) I first have to go fine the module swap out the configuration etc.... and as RNG is the way FD decided to go, chances are you will need to make multiple attempts to get the results you want, now try to do this in and FDL/Vulture etc....
In the end I just gave up for now as it's not worth the time and effort, Plus the fact that as an Elite combat pilot, I have the constant interdictions if there is any thing in the cargo hold.

Yep... I've given up for now as well. One way the problem could be solved by the FDevs is if you could give certain materials to the engineers and they kept an account of what you had given them. Then when you were ready you could take any ship to get the upgrades you'd earned. The way that it currently works (as I'm not willing to swap-out/lose all the current engineer upgrades on my small fighter to make it into a mining vessel) I'll never have an upgrade on it that requires a mined material (so no efficient dweller grade 3 pulse lasers for me).

To be fair I played the beta and it's only after playing the released game for a while I've realised the problem, so wouldn't necessarily have been obvious to the Devs in time to fix for the release.

 

[skurvenyzmrd]

Only a very small part of an engineer's requirements are in the form of cargo commodities (e.g. 1 unit for a small hardpoint modification). The rest are all with micro-resources which are not locked to a ship at all and these will be what you need the most of.

well yes, given we would only be focused on one very specific upgrade. given the mechanics with random stuff being all over the place and never knowing when that other piece of cargo commodity will spawn due to rng luck players tend to hold on to the more rare stuff. or even some common ones as obtaining them is a pain the bun.