General / Off-Topic A Confession

[Deleted member 115407]

OK, here's the deal - I'm a really smart guy who is generally very well-versed in basic political geography. If you asked me to point out Nation X on a map, I would probably be right or damn close 90% of the time, and that includes Cold War era geography.

Now this is embarrassing. It wasn't until about a week ago that I "realized" that Ireland is an independent, sovereign nation. Honestly, I thought it was like Scotland or Wales or something.

It makes sense now that I think about it. I mean, the fight for Northern Ireland, the whole "Michael Collins" thing (which I've never seen)... I guess I never payed much attention to 20th century history of the British Isles. And whenever I saw "Ireland" on the map next to the "UK", I just thought the designation was more a point of interest kind of thing.

Shameful, I know.

*edit*

You know, it's like when you've been saying a compound word all of your life. You know the meaning of it, and you're fully aware of its two roots, but it isn't until 30 years later that something just clicks and you're like "Oh!".

 

[Adept]

OK, here's the deal - I'm a really smart guy who is generally very well-versed in basic political geography. If you asked me to point out Nation X on a map, I would probably be right or damn close 90% of the time, and that includes Cold War era geography.

Now this is embarrassing. It wasn't until about a week ago that I "realized" that Ireland is an independent, sovereign nation. Honestly, I thought it was like Scotland or Wales or something.

It makes sense now that I think about it. I mean, the fight for Northern Ireland, the whole "Michael Collins" thing (which I've never seen)... I guess I never payed much attention to 20th century history of the British Isles. And whenever I saw "Ireland" on the map next to the "UK", I just thought the designation was more a point of interest kind of thing.

Shameful, I know.

*edit*

You know, it's like when you've been saying a compound word all of your life. You know the meaning of it, and you're fully aware of its two roots, but it isn't until 30 years later that something just clicks and you're like "Oh!".

Where are you from? How humorous this is kind of depends on it.

 

[Gortron]

OK, here's the deal - I'm a really smart guy who is generally very well-versed in basic political geography. If you asked me to point out Nation X on a map, I would probably be right or damn close 90% of the time, and that includes Cold War era geography.

Now this is embarrassing. It wasn't until about a week ago that I "realized" that Ireland is an independent, sovereign nation. Honestly, I thought it was like Scotland or Wales or something.

It makes sense now that I think about it. I mean, the fight for Northern Ireland, the whole "Michael Collins" thing (which I've never seen)... I guess I never payed much attention to 20th century history of the British Isles. And whenever I saw "Ireland" on the map next to the "UK", I just thought the designation was more a point of interest kind of thing.

Shameful, I know.

*edit*

You know, it's like when you've been saying a compound word all of your life. You know the meaning of it, and you're fully aware of its two roots, but it isn't until 30 years later that something just clicks and you're like "Oh!".

It's not that shameful. There is the Republic of Ireland, which is an independent sovereign nation and Northern Ireland which is part of the UK, much like Scotland and Wales and England. The two main differences are that Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland are on the island of Ireland but England, Scotland and Wales are on the island of Great Britain. The other difference is that some pyople consider the UK to be a union of four countries but others don't consider Northern Ireland to be a country in the first place, where as England Scotland and Wales are universally accepted as distinct countries that together are part of the UK.

I totally understand what you mean. Up until last year I though February was pronounced Freb-urie and spelt Freburay!

 

[Deleted member 115407]

Where are you from? How humorous this is kind of depends on it.

Understandable.

I'm from the United States. I've flown into Ireland, albeit never stepped outside of the airport. If I recall I didn't see a lot of Union Jacks flying about

It's not that shameful. There is the Republic of Ireland, which is an independent sovereign nation and Northern Ireland which is part of the UK, much like Scotland and Wales and England. The two main differences are that Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland are on the island of Ireland but England, Scotland and Wales are on the island of Great Britain. The other difference is that some pyople consider the UK to be a union of four countries but others don't consider Northern Ireland to be a country in the first place, where as England Scotland and Wales are universally accepted as distinct countries that together are part of the UK.

I totally understand what you mean. Up until last year I though February was pronounced Freb-urie and spelt Freburay!

Thanks. Yeah. On my drive home I was thinking back to all of my WWII fascination when I was a kid. Playing games like Hell's Highway as a kid, British XXX Corps was spearheaded by the Guards Armored Division, which I was under the impression had an Irish theme or history to it (I now see it had/has multiple national and regional elements to it). Kind of gave me the impression that the two nationalities were more closely intertwined. And then when I would hear about Belfast and Northern Ireland and such, I always assumed the fight was over wresting the whole of Ireland from British rule and that Northern Ireland was just the flashpoint for all of that.

Like I said, I'd look at a map, see the British Isles and think "Yup, there's the UK", without putting much else thought into it.

Thanks for taking it easy on me

P.S. When I was a kid I called it "Feb-you-ary", which is pretty commonly accepted as an adequate pronunciation. Now that I'm older I call it "Feb-ru-ary", with the "ru" kind of subvocalized.

 

[Gortron]

Understandable.

I'm from the United States. I've flown into Ireland, albeit never stepped outside of the airport. If I recall I didn't see a lot of Union Jacks flying about



Thanks. Yeah. On my drive home I was thinking back to all of my WWII fascination when I was a kid. Playing games like Hell's Highway as a kid, British XXX Corps was spearheaded by the Guards Armored Division, which I was under the impression had an Irish theme or history to it (I now see it had/has multiple national and regional elements to it). Kind of gave me the impression that the two nationalities were more closely intertwined. And then when I would hear about Belfast and Northern Ireland and such, I always assumed the fight was over wresting the whole of Ireland from British rule and that Northern Ireland was just the flashpoint for all of that.

Like I said, I'd look at a map, see the British Isles and think "Yup, there's the UK", without putting much else thought into it.

Thanks for taking it easy on me

P.S. When I was a kid I called it "Feb-you-ary", which is pretty commonly accepted as an adequate pronunciation. Now that I'm older I call it "Feb-ru-ary", with the "ru" kind of subvocalized.

No worries, I think it would be fair to say most people that live in the UK don't actually understand it. CGP grey does some amazing YouTube videos that condenses stuff like this down and simplifies it.

The UK:
[video=youtube;rNu8XDBSn10]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNu8XDBSn10[/video]

I could never work out why there is the Dutch, Holland and the Netherlands....

[video=youtube;eE_IUPInEuc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eE_IUPInEuc[/video]

 

[Lianachan]

I don't have it to hand, but there is UK/EU documentation which describes the UK as comprising of England and Scotland as countries, Wales as a principality and Northern Ireland as a province. Ireland is indeed a seperate, independent European country.

 

[Patrick_68000]

The intelligence has several forms. Like the Ireland ...

 

[Adept]

@op as you live on a different continent, this is perfectly fine and non-embarrassing. This is the sort of detail one finds out when a region peaks one's interest.

I had no idea about the capital of Canada. I knew it's not Toronto, even though it feels like it should be...

 

[Aereon Theed]

OK, here's the deal - I'm a really smart guy who is generally very well-versed in basic political geography. If you asked me to point out Nation X on a map, I would probably be right or damn close 90% of the time, and that includes Cold War era geography.

Now this is embarrassing. It wasn't until about a week ago that I "realized" that Ireland is an independent, sovereign nation. Honestly, I thought it was like Scotland or Wales or something.

It makes sense now that I think about it. I mean, the fight for Northern Ireland, the whole "Michael Collins" thing (which I've never seen)... I guess I never payed much attention to 20th century history of the British Isles. And whenever I saw "Ireland" on the map next to the "UK", I just thought the designation was more a point of interest kind of thing.

Shameful, I know.

*edit*

You know, it's like when you've been saying a compound word all of your life. You know the meaning of it, and you're fully aware of its two roots, but it isn't until 30 years later that something just clicks and you're like "Oh!".

My wife and I got into a fight about this not to long ago. Like a moron I argued that Ireland was part of the UK... (she is from Newcastle, that is why I was a moron and you are not, wasn't including you in that statement friend). Anyways... you can imagine how that went, especially because I called the Irish "her countrymen" pretty sure I am still catching daggers from this one.

Side note... I did find out my wife doesn't like the Irish... it would seem... lol

 

[Arry]

It could be that you were misinformed, or mislead; by such things as the British press etc..

The USA has always been the biggest funder of 'the fight' against the oppressors of the Irish . So again; you only hear a bias view, along with condensing of the facts. The Brits will have said, 'Ireland is a part of the UK'. Just to keep things simple and the 'less informed' on-side.

Michael Collins and the British politicians of the time, took advantage of the circumstances of the time and agreed to split the country and created 'Northern Ireland', as still a part of the UK and ruled from London. Before then, the Brits treated the whole country and its people very badly, from the time of King Billy and James (?) had their set too.

 

[Pyrotiger]

OK, here's the deal - I'm a really smart guy who is generally very well-versed in basic political geography. If you asked me to point out Nation X on a map, I would probably be right or damn close 90% of the time, and that includes Cold War era geography.

Now this is embarrassing. It wasn't until about a week ago that I "realized" that Ireland is an independent, sovereign nation. Honestly, I thought it was like Scotland or Wales or something.

It makes sense now that I think about it. I mean, the fight for Northern Ireland, the whole "Michael Collins" thing (which I've never seen)... I guess I never payed much attention to 20th century history of the British Isles. And whenever I saw "Ireland" on the map next to the "UK", I just thought the designation was more a point of interest kind of thing.

Shameful, I know.

*edit*

You know, it's like when you've been saying a compound word all of your life. You know the meaning of it, and you're fully aware of its two roots, but it isn't until 30 years later that something just clicks and you're like "Oh!".

WHAT? How is it possible not to know this? Maybe if you lived in Boston in 1980, yeah, but...how else?!? Surely you've heard of people with Irish passports. Ever heard of someone with a Welsh or Scottish one?

I forgive you.

The comment that Brits treated Ireland very badly above...I think it's a bit of a simplification. At times, yes they did, and they are well-documented. But then, in defence to Britain (and by no means take this as apologism), you tell me a colonial power that hasn't caused trouble in the territories they took over. coughit'scomplicatedcough.

 

[Arry]

WHAT? How is it possible not to know this? Maybe if you lived in Boston in 1980, yeah, but...how else?!? Surely you've heard of people with Irish passports. Ever heard of someone with a Welsh or Scottish one?

I forgive you.

The comment that Brits treated Ireland very badly above...I think it's a bit of a simplification. At times, yes they did, and they are well-documented. But then, in defence to Britain (and by no means take this as apologism), you tell me a colonial power that hasn't caused trouble in the territories they took over. coughit'scomplicatedcough.

Not just 'trouble', take the potato famine. The Brits insisted on taking their cut and thousands starved to death. It could have been avoided. Yes as a British subject myself, I try to be a little diplomatic with these things, but honest at the same time.

 

[Moonax IRL]

Understandable.

I'm from the United States. I've flown into Ireland, albeit never stepped outside of the airport. If I recall I didn't see a lot of Union Jacks flying about




Like I said, I'd look at a map, see the British Isles and think "Yup, there's the UK", without putting much else thought into it.

Thanks for taking it easy on me

P.S. When I was a kid I called it "Feb-you-ary", which is pretty commonly accepted as an adequate pronunciation. Now that I'm older I call it "Feb-ru-ary", with the "ru" kind of subvocalized.

The British Isles is an old imperial term and construct, it is Britain and Ireland, and obviously the Irish were never British as we are from Ireland and the British are from Britain, it`s fairly self explanatory. The Romans & Greeks referred to Ireland as Hibernia, the land of winter, Roman military never ventured into Ireland, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hibernia. Considering the Irish involvement in the US since day 1, it is a bit surprising.Why do think there is approx 40 million yanks with an Irish lineage or 250,000 or more Irish born men fought in the US civil war or the Irish have the most Medal of Honours won for any immigrant group in the US military.

 

[Moonax IRL]

Not just 'trouble', take the potato famine. The Brits insisted on taking their cut and thousands starved to death. It could have been avoided. Yes as a British subject myself, I try to be a little diplomatic with these things, but honest at the same time.

Millions starved to death & millions fled while large amounts of food were exported out of Ireland to England under guard by the British military, all during the famine. England's & later Britain's wars/occupation in Ireland over the centuries was genocidal in its tactics & viciousness and well documented. Ireland's population before the famine was well over 8 million, less than 10 yrs later and after the famine it was less than 4 million.

 

[Gortron]

The British Isles is an old imperial term and construct, it is Britain and Ireland, and obviously the Irish were never British as we are from Ireland and the British are from Britain, it`s fairly self explanatory. The Romans & Greeks referred to Ireland as Hibernia, the land of winter, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hibernia. Considering the Irish involvement in the US since day 1, it is a bit surprising.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Isles https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britannia Don't worry about it OP; https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chip_on_shoulder

 

[Moonax IRL]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Isles https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britannia Don't worry about it OP; https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chip_on_shoulder

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hibernia,

" Hibernia is the Classical Latin name for the island of Ireland. The name Hibernia was taken from Greek geographical accounts. During his exploration of northwest Europe (c. 320 BC), Pytheas of Massilia called the island Iérnē (written Ἰέρνη). In his book Geographia (c. 150 AD), Claudius Ptolemaeus ("Ptolemy") called the island Iouerníā (written Ἰουερνία, where "ου"-ou stands for w). The Roman historian Tacitus, in his book Agricola (c. 98 AD), uses the name Hibernia. The Romans also sometimes used Scotia, "land of the Scoti", as a geographical term for Ireland in general, as well as just the part inhabited by those people.

Ιουέρνια Iouerníā was a Greek rendering of the Q-Celtic name *Īweriū from which eventually arose the Irish names Ériu and Éire. The name was altered in Latin (influenced by the word hibernus) as though it meant "land of winter".[1]

The High King Brian Boru (c. 941–1014) based his title on being emperor of the Irish people, which was in Latin: "Imperator Scottorum", as distinct from claiming to be Emperor of the island of Ireland. From 1172 the Lordship of Ireland gave the King of England the additional title "Dominus Hibernie" (sic, for Hiberniae; also "Dominus Hybernie"), Lord of Ireland. The Kingdom of Ireland created the title Rex Hiberniae, King of Ireland, for use in Latin texts. Gerard Mercator called Ireland "Hybernia" on his world map of 1541. In 1642 the motto of the Irish Confederates, a Catholic-landlord administration that ruled much of Ireland until 1650 was: Pro Deo, Rege et Patria, Hibernia Unanimis. (In English: For God, King and Fatherland, Ireland is United).



However, unlike many Roman geographical names, the Latin "Hibernia" did not become the basis for the name for Ireland in any modern languages, with even Italian using Irlanda. Apart from the Celtic languages all modern languages use a local variant of the English "Ireland". This is presumably because direct medieval contacts between Ireland and continental Europe were at too low a level to embed use of the Hibernian root, or the original Irish Éire, in local vernaculars. This contrasts with Wales, which is still "Pays de Galles" in French, with similar terms in other Romance languages."

I`m afraid you tried for centuries and failed and I have my Irish passport to prove it and you have a British one. Soon the Scots will even breakup that little party.

 

[Gortron]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hibernia,

" Hibernia is the Classical Latin name for the island of Ireland. The name Hibernia was taken from Greek geographical accounts. During his exploration of northwest Europe (c. 320 BC), Pytheas of Massilia called the island Iérnē (written Ἰέρνη). In his book Geographia (c. 150 AD), Claudius Ptolemaeus ("Ptolemy") called the island Iouerníā (written Ἰουερνία, where "ου"-ou stands for w). The Roman historian Tacitus, in his book Agricola (c. 98 AD), uses the name Hibernia. The Romans also sometimes used Scotia, "land of the Scoti", as a geographical term for Ireland in general, as well as just the part inhabited by those people.

Ιουέρνια Iouerníā was a Greek rendering of the Q-Celtic name *Īweriū from which eventually arose the Irish names Ériu and Éire. The name was altered in Latin (influenced by the word hibernus) as though it meant "land of winter".[1]

The High King Brian Boru (c. 941–1014) based his title on being emperor of the Irish people, which was in Latin: "Imperator Scottorum", as distinct from claiming to be Emperor of the island of Ireland. From 1172 the Lordship of Ireland gave the King of England the additional title "Dominus Hibernie" (sic, for Hiberniae; also "Dominus Hybernie"), Lord of Ireland. The Kingdom of Ireland created the title Rex Hiberniae, King of Ireland, for use in Latin texts. Gerard Mercator called Ireland "Hybernia" on his world map of 1541. In 1642 the motto of the Irish Confederates, a Catholic-landlord administration that ruled much of Ireland until 1650 was: Pro Deo, Rege et Patria, Hibernia Unanimis. (In English: For God, King and Fatherland, Ireland is United).



However, unlike many Roman geographical names, the Latin "Hibernia" did not become the basis for the name for Ireland in any modern languages, with even Italian using Irlanda. Apart from the Celtic languages all modern languages use a local variant of the English "Ireland". This is presumably because direct medieval contacts between Ireland and continental Europe were at too low a level to embed use of the Hibernian root, or the original Irish Éire, in local vernaculars. This contrasts with Wales, which is still "Pays de Galles" in French, with similar terms in other Romance languages."

I`m afraid you tried for centuries and failed and I have my Irish passport to prove it and you have a British one. Soon the Scots will even breakup that little party.

I haven't been alive for centuries, only 40 years; so I'm not sure what I've tried failed at? This not British in any way even though you clearly are boils down to Latin speaking people calling Ireland else something before the Roman Empire existed. Blimey lol.

Your passport says you are a European Citizen as does mine. My next passport won't and it is up to Scottish people what appears on theirs.

 

[Moonax IRL]

I haven't been alive for centuries, only 40 years; so I'm not sure what I've tried failed at? This not British in any way even though you clearly are boils down to Latin speaking people calling Ireland else something before the Roman Empire existed. Blimey lol.

Your passport says you are a European Citizen as does mine. My next passport won't and it is up to Scottish people what appears on theirs.

I presume you can read English, it clearly states that the Romans and even the later English referred to Ireland as Hibernia "The Roman historian Tacitus, in his book Agricola (c. 98 AD), uses the name Hibernia. The Romans also sometimes used Scotia, "land of the Scoti", as a geographical term for Ireland in general, as well as just the part inhabited by those people." & " From 1172 the Lordship of Ireland gave the King of England the additional title "Dominus Hibernie" (sic, for Hiberniae; also "Dominus Hybernie"), Lord of Ireland. The Kingdom of Ireland created the title Rex Hiberniae".

Ireland's real name was what its own people called their own country which was obviously in its native language, as Gaeilge "Éire" which is still same today as Gaeilge as per my passport. I presume you can agree that the people living in a country should be the ones that actually know the actual name of said country, otherwise we could all start calling Britain "America minor".

 

[Gortron]

I presume you can read English, it clearly states that the Romans and even the later English referred to Ireland as Hibernia "The Roman historian Tacitus, in his book Agricola (c. 98 AD), uses the name Hibernia. The Romans also sometimes used Scotia, "land of the Scoti", as a geographical term for Ireland in general, as well as just the part inhabited by those people." & " From 1172 the Lordship of Ireland gave the King of England the additional title "Dominus Hibernie" (sic, for Hiberniae; also "Dominus Hybernie"), Lord of Ireland. The Kingdom of Ireland created the title Rex Hiberniae".

Ireland's real name was what its own people called their own country which was obviously in its native language, as Gaeilge "Éire" which is still same today as Gaeilge as per my passport. I presume you can agree that the people living in a country should be the ones that actually know the actual name of said country, otherwise we could all start calling Britain "America minor".

Yes I can read English and you can call it Bob for all I care. The British Isles is the name of the collection of islands including Ireland or Eire or Hibernia or Bob. In 150000BC it was probably referred to as 'Ooogh'. It isn't an imperial construct, it is just the English name of a geographic area.

Anyway it is obviously time for your monthly, 'The Irish are saintly the British are evil muderers' miopic history lessons. I'm really on interested in getting involved with that again so shall not respond to you further in this thread. Enjoy you Sunday.

 

[Moonax IRL]

Yes I can read English and you can call it Bob for all I care. The British Isles is the name of the collection of islands including Ireland or Eire or Hibernia or Bob. In 150000BC it was probably referred to as 'Ooogh'. It isn't an imperial construct, it is just the English name of a geographic area.

Anyway it is obviously time for your monthly, 'The Irish are saintly the British are evil muderers' miopic history lessons. I'm really on interested in getting involved with that again so shall not respond to you further in this thread. Enjoy you Sunday.

So you agree its just an imperial construct that was just invented in the last few centuries to justify a colonial project. A bit of PR propaganda, as the history proves it. Then again you seem clueless about the history of your own country and happy in your ignorance. Have you thought of running for UKIP, could be a good fit.