Newcomer / Intro A few general questions and a comparison of profession income

[Cmdr Kurnek]

So I've been running around for a few days now, trying out new things as I go. I started with a little trading, figuring that I didn't want to get involved in combat until I'd upgraded a bit. Had no idea what rare goods were (still can't find them, but then I stopped looking really), so I was trading common goods. highest profit margins I found were between 300-500 per tonne.

So I had just finished a particularly disappointing experimental trade run (not even 1k profit) when I decided to try out bounty hunting at the nav beacon, as it was nearby (obviously) when I jumped to the system. With the help of a freelance npc hunter, took down a Federal Dropship. In my starting sidewinder.

For 40k.

10 times my average profit from a trade run. I then proceeded to take down an Adder and a Cobra in short succession, netting me a healthy amount more. Of course I later realised that this is even easier in a RES, as there seems to be a higher spawn rate. Either way, you rarely go long before a new wanted ship turns up and you can net an easy bounty with support from helpful Feds.

So, couple things...

Does anybody have estimates of the profitability of the main professions, both newbie low end stuff and the higher end elite anaconda hunting equivalents? Main professions being Trading, Smuggling, Bounty Hunting, Piracy, Exploration, Mining and Mercenary work (correct me if I missed one...)

Because before I start really investing in one it would be good to know if it's a bit of a dud in the current climate. Keeping in mind that this isn't me whining, I have no doubt that Frontier will fix/balance/make things work eventually, but they have a lot on their plate right now and I can't wait that long!

I'd love to go Bounty Hunter (partially inspired by Cmdr Isinona I'm not gonna lie...), but at the moment Bounty Hunting seems to be less 'hunting' and more 'camping spawn points'.

I don't know about others but I would think it would be far more fun if NPC bounties were rarer and harder to locate (say you had to stakeout a station entrance or supercruise the systems bordering an anarchy system, scanning ships that passed. Or even if there was a list of 'most wanted' bounties for NPCs in the local area, much like there is for players currently.

And I haven't really been able to find a way to make trading remotely profitable (and this was with buying low/selling high/researching system and station economies and planning trade routes accordingly), even if I'd traded my way to a hauler I would barely be making 10k per station stop if I was very, very lucky. Am I missing something? Is it just the case that rares exist to make trading in a smaller (read: not an Asp or Lakon) ship viable, while the more everyday goods are intended for the larger bulk ships?

And while I've done a little smuggling of things I picked up from dead pirates/USS, it seems at least a little profitable if you 'find' the stuff. Though I doubt it would be that way if you bought goods legally at a station where only toxic waste is illegal and then smuggled them into a black market where they were illegal. From what I've seen from others, whether the goods were stolen or not, and how much security you have to get past to get in has little impact on the final price. Or is that not the case?

So this seems to have turned partially into (what I would hope is) constructive criticism of the way the game works. Whoops.

Oh well. Back to the original question then.

Piracy, Exploration, Mining and Mercwork I have no experience with whatsoever, though they are all things I would like to try at some point. Over to you guys! Any knowledge I could crowdsource?

 

[Pete]

Bounty hunting is good at first, as you don't need capital to fund your profits. Later as you get more cash, you can turn it to good use in trading, and then trading is far more profitable than bounty hunting.

Piracy doesn't pay well, but people enjoy it - exploration can COST you money if you're not careful (terrible payout for the amount of time spent) but gives you an opportunity to see all the cool stuff. Mining is apparently dull and unprofitable - I only tried it for 1/2 hour myself before figuring that the ring I was trying to mine was made of ice...then I sold all my mining gear and never looked back.

-- Pete.

 

[Undecided]

Smuggling isn't really a profession in the game currently. The black market's exist to fence stolen goods and you'll often lose money trying to sell prohibited cargo you bought with your own money. The only cash to be had is in taking missions to nab free floating cargo at USSs as you have already discovered.

Bounty hunting can pay quite favorably at the beginning when you only have small ships to work with and don't have the cargo space to trade lucratively, but as you get bigger and better ships trade income soars while other professions peak at around the the Viper range. Trying to fight in the larger ships will often lose you money as the replacement and repair costs pile up and as exploration focused Asp will only jump a few lightyears more than a similarly equipped Hauler which will cost about a tenth of the Asp.

Point is: trade scales as you upgrade to bigger and better things. Just about all other income stays pretty much the same.

As for rares being for smaller ships, yes. You can make decent money even with only a Hauler to work with if you can get your hand on a large enough FSD. Generally you trade rares until you have a Type-6, at which point normal buy-low sell-high commodity trading makes you more cash per hour. Some still trade rares even in Type-6s and Asps though, the travel does lend an allure to the profession.

 

[mistohise]

For starting out, exploring with the basic scanner can bring in a few thousand credits just by pinging unknown systems and targeting the suns.
There are profitable trade routes to be found, and plenty of guides exist to show how to find them, but, as you say, trade really only picks up once you have large enough ships. Trading in the sidewinder or an eagle is not going to bring in a lot of cash per hour.

 

[cmdr lowest]

Smuggling isn't really a profession in the game currently. The black market's exist to fence stolen goods and you'll often lose money trying to sell prohibited cargo you bought with your own money. The only cash to be had is in taking missions to nab free floating cargo at USSs as you have already discovered.

Bounty hunting can pay quite favorably at the beginning when you only have small ships to work with and don't have the cargo space to trade lucratively, but as you get bigger and better ships trade income soars while other professions peak at around the the Viper range. Trying to fight in the larger ships will often lose you money as the replacement and repair costs pile up and as exploration focused Asp will only jump a few lightyears more than a similarly equipped Hauler which will cost about a tenth of the Asp.

Point is: trade scales as you upgrade to bigger and better things. Just about all other income stays pretty much the same.

As for rares being for smaller ships, yes. You can make decent money even with only a Hauler to work with if you can get your hand on a large enough FSD. Generally you trade rares until you have a Type-6, at which point normal buy-low sell-high commodity trading makes you more cash per hour. Some still trade rares even in Type-6s and Asps though, the travel does lend an allure to the profession.

Smuggling can be fairly lucrative if tacked on to bounty hunting.

Buy a cargo hatch limpet launcher and blow the doors off the wanted ships cargo holds - spilling the contents. Kill them for bounty, plus sell all their loot for free profit on black market.

Just watch you don't get scanned by authority with stolen goods if camping at a nav beacon or res.

 

[Dr Zachary Smith]

Smuggling if you have a small ship[adder] I am finding pays off very well, made about 3 million in the last couple of days which isn't bad for a small ship with cheap running costs.
I am finding slave smuggling to be lucrative.

not selling on black market, but searching the station missions for the 2x slaves required its 50k a pop for 2x slaves, and 2x slaves will cost you about 20k, 30k profit per hit. Some stations have 2 of those missions live at a time, also the smuggling missions where activity is illegal, such as military plans, prototype tech etc, these are the things that can be used to cash in on missions such as find me 2x prototype tech etc, usually you will find about 8 in an unidentified signal source, leaving 6 to sell to black market and 2 for mission completion. Always check the missions before you sell anything to black market, you could be giving up 10x as much profit on an item

obviously you do need to know where to get slaves too

and don't forget to use heat management or boost through the slot to avoid being scanned and fined when in possession of illegal goods

 

[Malak'kai]

Smuggling can be fairly lucrative if tacked on to bounty hunting.

Buy a cargo hatch limpet launcher and blow the doors off the wanted ships cargo holds - spilling the contents. Kill them for bounty, plus sell all their loot for free profit on black market.

Just watch you don't get scanned by authority with stolen goods if camping at a nav beacon or res.

With the exception of the cargo hatch limpet launcher this is exactly how I make my cred. I keep track of all black market stations nearby. As soon as my cargo hold is full I just make a dash for the nearest black market Orbital. Slow, but steady income stream right there.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

I've made over 9 million from exploration, and costs on ships (wear and tear/damage) has cost me a few hundred k in total. If you do exploration right, then you will always make a profit. Saying that, its the least profitable trade out there in terms of credits/hour... but that's really not why people explore. If credits are your focus, then its boring trading that is the way to go.

 

[andyraptor]

My vote goes as follows (Cr per hour playing time)

Trading

Bounty hunting (RES, Nav + combine with BB Missions)

Exploration (but you have to be aware that hours of work can vapourise in just 1 inderdiction)

Mining ( just no! )

Piracy ( it's a game mode for shooters and griefers )

 

[Himmel Tropf]

yeah I'm in a nice little system RES at the moment, and i'm making around 200k+/h in my sidewinder/eagle.
I'm <50Ls from the nearest contacts, but ~1500Ls from the nearest outfitter / rearm

 

[technion]

and don't forget to use heat management or boost through the slot to avoid being scanned and fined when in possession of illegal goods

May I also suggest, bounty hunting in anarchy systems.

I got 2000cr bounty of a guy who dropped 16 tonne of gold just now. I could only fit four in my viper, but I flew them to the local outpost, which had no concept of illegal goods, and sold them on the black market for 4,500cr each.

 

[the100thmonkey]

The trick with initial trading is to find decent profit-per-ton.

The current community mission at Yembo is great for this - you get really top prices on metals and other commodities for building a station. If you're worried about piracy, just do your trading in solo.

If community missions aren't your thing, I've noticed that the worlds at the periphery of human space tend to be extraction and refinery economies, and their prices for metals, for example, are really low. Perhaps a multi-jump route taking metals in to core space and food/luxuries to the edge would be a good idea.

Alternatively, you could just focus on popping hulls till you've earned enough to upgrade to a decent ship. That's what I did. I have a Viper and a Cobra (both A-spec) and am saving for an Asp. Once you have more than 20t of cargo space, it becomes much more achievable.

 

[bazza926]

I've been playing for a few weeks now. I started doing a bit of trading in the winder until I could upgrade to the hauler. I found a nice three way trade and was earning just over 1000cr per tonne. With my 18t hauler I was bringing in just short of 20k per 15 minute round trip. Yes its a bit of a grind but needs must.

After I saved up enough I got myself a cobra and decided to try a bit of mining. Make sure you buy a refinery with at least 3 bins (more the better but 4 or more is 500k). Find a good spot with metallic or metal rich rings or asteroids and its all profit. Yes its a bit dull but I find it quite relaxing. Shoot, Collect, Allocate, Repeat. When you have enough (or run out of time) head off to the refinery. Interdictions by the locals get you a couple of bounties on the way.

I realise its not everyones cup of tea but its ok and its all profit. Its a change from grinding credits by trading and you get to shoot people on the way home.

 

[lolanon]

I'm yet to try mining. Might try it after my trading today.

 

[Cmdr Kurnek]

Saying that, its the least profitable trade out there in terms of credits/hour... but that's really not why people explore. If credits are your focus, then its boring trading that is the way to go.

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not a min/max-ing credits-per-hour obsessed race-to-the-anaconda type, I just don't want to be barely skimming enough profit to cover expenses!

I'm not looking for exploits, I'm actually trying to avoid them/hoping Frontier fixes or balances them with other options. Which they seem to be trying to do slowly but steadily (And I do appreciate it lads!)

I've been playing for a few weeks now. I started doing a bit of trading in the winder until I could upgrade to the hauler. I found a nice three way trade and was earning just over 1000cr per tonne. With my 18t hauler I was bringing in just short of 20k per 15 minute round trip. Yes its a bit of a grind but needs must.

Mind if I ask what your route was? I've been having problems finding a high enough margin, it's the main reason I went eagle and not hauler (aside from ooo...pretty...)

After I saved up enough I got myself a cobra and decided to try a bit of mining. Make sure you buy a refinery with at least 3 bins (more the better but 4 or more is 500k). Find a good spot with metallic or metal rich rings or asteroids and its all profit. Yes its a bit dull but I find it quite relaxing. Shoot, Collect, Allocate, Repeat. When you have enough (or run out of time) head off to the refinery. Interdictions by the locals get you a couple of bounties on the way.

Mining actually sounds interesting, I really want to see if I can make the process more efficient by working together with friends (one blasts, the other scoops, etc). either that or wait and hope that frontier adds some kind of mass cargo collection utility component for larger ships like the type 9, as I love the idea of filling one of those while accompanied by a few mixed purpose cobra friends and splitting the profits!

The trick with initial trading is to find decent profit-per-ton.

The current community mission at Yembo is great for this - you get really top prices on metals and other commodities for building a station. If you're worried about piracy, just do your trading in solo.

Sounds like a plan, might give it a shot. And I acually like piracy, forces me to account for variables other than cargo capacity, speed and direction...

If community missions aren't your thing, I've noticed that the worlds at the periphery of human space tend to be extraction and refinery economies, and their prices for metals, for example, are really low. Perhaps a multi-jump route taking metals in to core space and food/luxuries to the edge would be a good idea.

Also sounds like an intriguing plan. I gave up finding such a route early on as all systems I visited has very nearly the same prices to systems with the same economy types elsewhere. I just figured that there just wasn't much variation in price no matter where you go.

Similar to components actually. Has anyone actually managed to find pulse lasers in the class 1 but rating a, b or c range? Do they even exist? I've tried every large population high tech or industrial system I've come across and they all seem to have exactly the same stock! Or is the trick finding a high tech AND industrial mixed economy station?

I am finding slave smuggling to be lucrative.

not selling on black market, but searching the station missions for the 2x slaves required its 50k a pop for 2x slaves, and 2x slaves will cost you about 20k, 30k profit per hit. Some stations have 2 of those missions live at a time, also the smuggling missions where activity is illegal, such as military plans, prototype tech etc, these are the things that can be used to cash in on missions such as find me 2x prototype tech etc, usually you will find about 8 in an unidentified signal source, leaving 6 to sell to black market and 2 for mission completion. Always check the missions before you sell anything to black market, you could be giving up 10x as much profit on an item

Sounds like exactly what I'm looking for smuggling-wise! Though don't most of those missions require you to steal the assets, not purchase them cheaply in a system where they're legal and there's no security to sneak them past and then smuggling them into more high security stations where they are illegal? Not that I'm against a bit of scavenging, it just pays to have a back up plan if you cant find any at USS'...

Piracy doesn't pay well, but people enjoy it

I'd imagine piracy only becomes worthwhile if you do much the same thing as trading, find a good rares trade route and exploit it! I also imagine it's pretty useless unless you're targeting players...

Speaking of, anyone know if those top 5 bounty boards are only those players who are online? Seems like it might be a good idea if not already implemented, somewhere down the line of course, after exploit/bugfixing etc. Also, anyone know how often they are updated?

 

[bazza926]

In one system there was a tourism station and an agriculture station. One jump over there was a refinery. I would take tea from agriculture to refinery (200 profit) silver to the tourists (800 profit) and bio waste back to the ahriculture (70 profit (not much but didn't want to fly empty)). I think the systems were Clayakarma and Swaza.

Each rock in mining produces a certain number of pieces (maybe about 8) so the more rocks around means better mining. These bits disappear after some time so I only shoot 3 off before collecting.