Hardware & Technical A few PC upgrade questions (not specific to ED)

[Istaria]

Hi all,

I'm going to throw a few quid over the next few months at upgrading my gaming machine. As I am on a budget, I'll be doing it monthly, with approx €200-ish per month.

At the moment, my setup is:

i5-2500K
4 GB RAM (this was 8GB but a stick failed recently, and I haven't replaced it yet)
GTX560
64GB SSD + 2TB Mechanical
1 x 24" 1920x1080 monitor

My first question is what to upgrade first....I am thinking RAM (16GB) -> SSD (64GB -> 512GB) -> GPU -> second monitor? Any thoughts on this, or suggestions?

Also, I'm considering the Oculus Rift over a second monitor, but I have a couple of questions on that...

1) How do you see your hands?? Is it semi-transparent? With regard to ED I am kinda specifically thinking about the Navigation screen where you have to type, but I don't *just* play ED, and for example chatting in an MMO - how does this work?

2) How well does it work with other games? Let's use the example I am playing on-and-off at the moment - Dragon Age Inquisition. Is the res an issue?

Any advice appreciated

Ist.

PS: I currently play KB+Mouse, but I will at some point get a HOTAS. I haven't counted it as an upgrade though. Just saying this so that it can be borne in mind with regard to the Oculus question...

 

[adoredtv]

You can run the game fine on 4GB otherwise you wouldn't be running it now.

The weak link in your pc is the 560. A bigger SSD is nice but won't really give you any extra performance.

If you can spend €200 per month I'd go with 1) New GPU 2) Bigger SSD + another 4GB of RAM then 3) Add a 2nd screen. The Rift CV1 is a while off yet I fear.

Most RAM has a lifetime warranty, incidentally, so you might wanna check that.

 

[Slopey]

GPU.

If you're not running 64-bit windows, upgrading beyond 4Gb is pointless. If you are, then if you're upgrading just for ED, as it's a 32-bit app, that's also pointless really.

The weak link is your GPU and if you're considering a DK2, that GPU won't be able to drive it properly. You may also have to upgrade your PSU for a new GPU. If you can afford it, the GTX 970 offers the best bang for the buck currently.

 

[Istaria]

Thanks for the advice guys. I'm torn a bit, I must admit. Adoredtv - you're right, ED does run fine with 4GB, but other games really struggle. On the other hand, a new GPU would make an immense difference - it also matters a lot if I go dual monitor. The SSD is something I can definitely put off for a while, but at the moment my 64GB can only just hold Windows, with 4GB free. So all my games live on the mechanical drive. A second monitor is a luxury, so that remains bottom of the list (for now).

Decisions, decisions!

EDIT: Yep, I'm running Win7 64-bit. PSU is an 850W, should be fine up to the 980 GTX.

EDIT2: I may compromise on this by buying 1 8GB stick cheap to bring me to 12GB, and grab a GPU at the same time...might have to go a bit over budget, but am sure the missus will forgive me at some point

 

[Kiblams]

Can't fault what others have posted, your ram could do with another 4gb, and your GPU is the weak spot. Your CPU should be solid for another few years.

For the ram, don't feel the need to buy a dual channel kit, just throw another 4gb stick in there which should be cheap enough and leave money for the gpu upgrade. There have been many tests that have show in real life applications like gaming, dual channel kits give max 3% increase over single channel. Its a nice to have, but an expense that isn't good value at all.

 

[Max Rockatansky]

i agree with the other. this is my order of upgrade. (given that RAM is probably the cheapest option)
RAM needs some boost. 4GB should be enough. More RAM is more important than dual kits, or such. usually any RAM chip will get you ahead. If you can get the same type, its better but not something to sweat about.

GPU will give you the biggest bang for the buck. The single most effective boost to game performance I would think.

But don't count out the SSD. SSDs beat traditional drives hands down in performance. Having the game files on an SSD will improve your performance overall. loading times can be faster and such. depending on the game and use of the computer otherwise. Although not a necessary upgrade in terms of storage space ... i wouldn't go back to traditional drives for running my computer anymore. For me they are just storage of data that doesn't depend on having fast access.

 

[Distance]

You can run the game fine on 4GB otherwise you wouldn't be running it now.

The weak link in your pc is the 560. A bigger SSD is nice but won't really give you any extra performance.

If you can spend €200 per month I'd go with 1) New GPU 2) Bigger SSD + another 4GB of RAM then 3) Add a 2nd screen. The Rift CV1 is a while off yet I fear.

Most RAM has a lifetime warranty, incidentally, so you might wanna check that.

Thanks for the advice guys. I'm torn a bit, I must admit. Adoredtv - you're right, ED does run fine with 4GB, but other games really struggle. On the other hand, a new GPU would make an immense difference - it also matters a lot if I go dual monitor. The SSD is something I can definitely put off for a while, but at the moment my 64GB can only just hold Windows, with 4GB free. So all my games live on the mechanical drive. A second monitor is a luxury, so that remains bottom of the list (for now).

Decisions, decisions!

EDIT: Yep, I'm running Win7 64-bit. PSU is an 850W, should be fine up to the 980 GTX.

EDIT2: I may compromise on this by buying 1 8GB stick cheap to bring me to 12GB, and grab a GPU at the same time...might have to go a bit over budget, but am sure the missus will forgive me at some point

Definitely the GPU. The other games are struggling more due to the gpu than ram, you're just attributing it to ram as for some reason a lot of people seem to think ram is a magic bullet. Next upgrade after the gpu go with a 256 gb samsung 850 ssd before you think about ram. This will be a much bigger performance boost in your day to day computing than anything else.

I recently upgraded my son's pc. He's got a q6600, 4 gig of ram, 680gtx, 3tb seagate and a samsung 850 ssd. He can max out pretty much any game he plays and his rig holds up to mine a lot of the time (i5 4670k, 16gig ram, gtx970).

Also you could probably run 970's or 980's in sli with that psu as those cards have low power draw.

 

[stridecolossus]

I'll piggy-back on this thread with a slightly related question:

One of the major aspects of ED that drew me to the game is the superb (IMHO) audio design. I've only got a cheapo pair of speakers which are fine but I'd like to upgrade and get some really nice ones - problem is I know nowt about speakers.

So:
- should I get some sort of surround-sound setup?
- What's the difference between 2.0, 2.1 and 5.1? Does it matter?
- Do I want sub-woofers (whatever they are)?
- Do I need a dedicated sound-card or will the built-in one be fine (machine is pretty much brand-new btw)?

Any recommendations?

Cheers in advance for any advice.

- stride

 

[Distance]

I'll piggy-back on this thread with a slightly related question:

One of the major aspects of ED that drew me to the game is the superb (IMHO) audio design. I've only got a cheapo pair of speakers which are fine but I'd like to upgrade and get some really nice ones - problem is I know nowt about speakers.

So:
- should I get some sort of surround-sound setup?
- What's the difference between 2.0, 2.1 and 5.1? Does it matter?
- Do I want sub-woofers (whatever they are)?
- Do I need a dedicated sound-card or will the built-in one be fine (machine is pretty much brand-new btw)?

Any recommendations?

Cheers in advance for any advice.

- stride

Can't help you on the speaker side as I'm an audio engineer and the only speakers I have both at home and in studio are a grand a pair with a sound card that's over a grand as well so pretty much out of your budget.

I play ed using these most of the time though : http://www.plantronics.com/us/product/gamecom-780

They sound good enough but the build quality is abysmal and from reviews i'm waiting for mine to break randomly any day now so for that alone I wouldn't recommend them.

I also use a pair of etymotics in ear monitors which have amazing sound quality but they're about 350 a pair and no mic.

TBH if you ever plan to use comms in game I'd look at getting a decent gaming headset and be done with it.

 

[Banjax]

Nobody has mentioned this yet, but as you look to upgrade especially the GPU make sure your current PSU can run it all. it's the least fun part of the build, but without an adequate one, you're stuffed .

 

[stridecolossus]

...
TBH if you ever plan to use comms in game I'd look at getting a decent gaming headset and be done with it.

Cheers for that, I've already got a decent headset (with TrackIR thingy on it as well) which works great for voice comms but I'd prefer to have the audio/music from some kick-ass speakers.

 

[adoredtv]

Nobody has mentioned this yet, but as you look to upgrade especially the GPU make sure your current PSU can run it all. it's the least fun part of the build, but without an adequate one, you're stuffed .

You're correct to mention this however the 560 has a dual 6-pin requirement so his PSU is almost certainly up to the task of running most graphics cards around the €200 euro mark.

 

[Distance]

Nobody has mentioned this yet, but as you look to upgrade especially the GPU make sure your current PSU can run it all. it's the least fun part of the build, but without an adequate one, you're stuffed .

He already mentioned he had an 850w psu as well and most new gfx cards come with extra adapters for 6 to 8 pin if his was an older 850 model without the 8pin.

Cheers for that, I've already got a decent headset (with TrackIR thingy on it as well) which works great for voice comms but I'd prefer to have the audio/music from some kick-ass speakers.

The other problem with "kick ass speakers" is the majority of the sound comes from the room it's in and the positioning of the speakers rather than the speakers themselves. You could get great sounds from a cheap set of speakers if you have a good room.

As for the in game sounds they are indeed some of the best I've heard and playing in a proper studio is mind blowing

 

[Hell Razor5543]

If you are running a 64bit O/S, upgrade the RAM first, making sure that you keep the banks populated with the same size memory cards. This will allow for memory interleaving to take place (this will happen automatically if it can, no configuration needed). The memory banks MUST be balanced for this to happen. My PC has 32GB DDR3 RAM, and that scores 7.8 on the Windows 7 benchmark. A trick I also would then suggest is to fit a drive dedicated just to the Swap File. Windows will ALWAYS create a Swap File (Also known as Page File or Virtual Memory), and if this is on the same drive as the O/S, and things start to get busy, this can cause a major bottleneck. I have 4 SSD units, and one of those is just for the Swap File. I have yet to see my PC slow down when the Swap File is in heavy use. This trick does NOT make the PC go faster, it helps stop it from slowing down.

 

[Nemesis109]

An inexpensive upgrade people often overlook is a CPU cooler. For £20-£30 you can get a pretty decent cooler like the Coolermaster Hyper 212. This will allow you to overclock your CPU by a greater margin and still keep reasonable temps. I have my i5 overclocked at a stable 1000Mhz over stock speeds.

 

[Istaria]

Loads of great advice in here - thank you all!

If you are running a 64bit O/S, upgrade the RAM first, making sure that you keep the banks populated with the same size memory cards. This will allow for memory interleaving to take place (this will happen automatically if it can, no configuration needed). The memory banks MUST be balanced for this to happen. My PC has 32GB DDR3 RAM, and that scores 7.8 on the Windows 7 benchmark. A trick I also would then suggest is to fit a drive dedicated just to the Swap File. Windows will ALWAYS create a Swap File (Also known as Page File or Virtual Memory), and if this is on the same drive as the O/S, and things start to get busy, this can cause a major bottleneck. I have 4 SSD units, and one of those is just for the Swap File. I have yet to see my PC slow down when the Swap File is in heavy use. This trick does NOT make the PC go faster, it helps stop it from slowing down.

Yep, that's the plan. At the moment my 64GB SSD holds Windows and nothing else. When I upgrade it (will probably go 512GB) I'll turn it into a dedicated swap.

Looks like I'll be going:

1) 4GB + GPU
2) SSD
3) Monitor

I've had a look and my GPU can comfortably handle a GTX970 - now I just need to see if I can liberate the funds from the joint account without herself blowing a fuse. A month of all picture and no sound might be worth it though

Reps incoming!

 

[Hell Razor5543]

I assume that the GTX560 is an NVidia card? If it is, does your motherboard support SLi? If it does, it might be worth considering getting another GTX560 (preferably the same make, model and spec.) and then linking them together with the internal SLi cable. I am running a pair of GTS450 cards, and Windows 7 scores them 7.7 (which is more than my CPU scores). I have just looked on e-bay, and the GTX560 cards start around £30. While a GTX970 is a nice card, it might cause less friction to go the SLi route. I have checked, and the GX560 supports SLi, so if your motherboard does that is something to consider.

 

[Istaria]

I assume that the GTX560 is an NVidia card? If it is, does your motherboard support SLi? If it does, it might be worth considering getting another GTX560 (preferably the same make, model and spec.) and then linking them together with the internal SLi cable. I am running a pair of GTS450 cards, and Windows 7 scores them 7.7 (which is more than my CPU scores). I have just looked on e-bay, and the GTX560 cards start around £30. While a GTX970 is a nice card, it might cause less friction to go the SLi route. I have checked, and the GX560 supports SLi, so if your motherboard does that is something to consider.

Few days away, so sorry for such a slow reply, but you know what....that is not a bad suggestion at all. Hmmm....time to do a bit of reading about SLI methinks

Cheers!