Engineers A few quick newb questions

[Poacher886]

Hi,

After returning to ED from a long break, ive a lot of catching up to do. Decided last night to see what all these Engineers are about and made the trip to Deciat to deal with my thrusters, i get the hang of it but have a few questions, which vids dont seem to explain:

1. I decided to go for a clean tune, rank one, and could see the effects that would happen...except when i hit generate only a 1/4 of the 'circle' generated?? after generating a further 3 times it was still only 3/4 of the circle full, does this mean you need to generate 4 times to get the desired / advertised effect??

2. After generating 3 times and being 3/4 full circle, i now had the option of conducting a stage 2 tune....so i generated that once and it automatically completed the 1st stage and gave me the 1st 1/4 of the stage 2 tune??? so why would you bother to complete the 1st stage when it can be completed via hitting stage 2?

3.After completing an upgrade to stage 2 in clean tune, can i still give it a dirty tune? is it counter proactive? do they accumulate?

4.After generating my first stage one tune, even with the circle only 1/4 full, i was able to create an experimental effect...are these effects reversible? and are the experimental effects the same regardless of what stage tune you have i.e the same is on offer at stage 1 and stage 5 ?

5. Why would you NOT pin blueprints, which im guessing is so you can make the same mod to any thruster anywhere from a station rather than make the trip to engineer.

Thanks for your replys

 

[Krash]

You can skip to a higher stage asap, no reason not to if you have the mats. Once you are rank 5 with an engineer it only takes 1 roll on rank 1 to complete it, the first time, while gaining ranks always takes more rolls. If you switch to another upgrade you lose progress in your current upgrade. e.g.You cant mix Clean tune with Dirty Drives. You can replace experimental effects at the engineer base, you only get one affect per upgrade, doesnt matter what stage. Pin blueprints of the type you want to use remotely. You have to visit the engineer to get the experimental effects, regardless of the pin.

As for why you chose Clean drives over Dirty drives, just FYI- everyone goes with Dirty for combat builds, unless you have a specific reason such as a silent runner or exploration build.

 

[Poacher886]

Thanks for your answers

As for why i chose clean over dirty, because there are far more negative effects via dirty, for a marginal increase in performance, that small increase could be made up for via experimental effects, thus ending with a better balanced thruster of near similar performance! Unless im missing something??

Just for clarity on the mixing of dirty + clean, currently i have a stage 2 clean thruster, are you suggesting that if i generated a stage 1 dirty tune, i would drop back to a stage 1 clean tune + stage 1 dirty tune??

Also are you saying you get NO benefits until the full roll is completed??

 

[Ethaidan]

Thanks for your answers

As for why i chose clean over dirty, because there are far more negative effects via dirty, for a marginal increase in performance, that small increase could be made up for via experimental effects, thus ending with a better balanced thruster of near similar performance! Unless im missing something??

Just for clarity on the mixing of dirty + clean, currently i have a stage 2 clean thruster, are you suggesting that if i generated a stage 1 dirty tune, i would drop back to a stage 1 clean tune + stage 1 dirty tune??

Also are you saying you get NO benefits until the full roll is completed??

You can only use one blueprint per module - no, you cannot do 2 tiers of Clean, then add a tier of Dirty. Once you choose an engineering option for a module, that's your path for that module - switching will undo any previous engineering.

As for a marginal difference between Ckean & Dirty... 50-60m/s is a pretty big difference in combat.

The blue circle you are looking at (that increases with every roll) is how much (%) of the maximum potential benefit available for that tier that you have achieved (you get the full negative effects on the first roll at eachbtier). As mentioned, if you intend on carrying on up the tiers, there is no reason to max out a current tier when the next is available. Jumping to the next tier will max out the prdvious tier. Whether you keep rolling at Grade5 to get that blue circle completely finished... depends, is that final 1.28% worth a couple more rolls worth of G5 mats?

 

[Poacher886]

Thanks again, just on the combat performance....im not experienced at combat much yet, but it would seem to me that you both have to be within weapon range to kill each other thus surely manoeuvrability is more important, and manoeuvrability does'nt seem to be intrinsically attached to top end speed, but a more balanced ship layout like mass etc ?

 

[Ethaidan]

Thanks again, just on the combat performance....im not experienced at combat much yet, but it would seem to me that you both have to be within weapon range to kill each other thus surely manoeuvrability is more important, and manoeuvrability does'nt seem to be intrinsically attached to top end speed, but a more balanced ship layout like mass etc ?

Both speed and maneuverability are important, imho. The extra 60m/s I get on my Clipper means I can, if need be, put some distance between or maintain distance with an enemy to take advantage of weapons engineered for long range (esp. if they're using short range) or let my shields recharge, I can escape if needed, you cannot escape from me, I can close distance quickly if I'm using an all-Frag loadout... much to consider.

 

[Krash]

Dirty drives with the Drag drive experimental is the preferred combat build by all the pros that know best. I've been using that config for so long I forget the specific details of why it's the best.

 

[Poacher886]

Both speed and maneuverability are important, imho. The extra 60m/s I get on my Clipper means I can, if need be, put some distance between or maintain distance with an enemy to take advantage of weapons engineered for long range (esp. if they're using short range) or let my shields recharge, I can escape if needed, you cannot escape from me, I can close distance quickly if I'm using an all-Frag loadout... much to consider.

Cant argue with that, but given my ride is a .......Cobra IV, (yes i know, but it annoys everyone that cant get it Lol) im not going to be outrunning jack, hell even un-engineered ships will give me a run for my money, thus im concentrating on balance, low mass and as much manoeuvrability / firepower as i can muster....i.e it needs to be over quick.

 

[Poacher886]

Dirty drives with the Drag drive experimental is the preferred combat build by all the pros that know best. I've been using that config for so long I forget the specific details of why it's the best.

Yes i thought as much, maximum speed at any cost...seems a bit simplistic tbh, but i guess ill find out!

 

[Greybeard_LXI]

Hi,

2. After generating 3 times and being 3/4 full circle, i now had the option of conducting a stage 2 tune....so i generated that once and it automatically completed the 1st stage and gave me the 1st 1/4 of the stage 2 tune??? so why would you bother to complete the 1st stage when it can be completed via hitting stage 2?

I would only complete stage 1 if I did not have enough mats for stage 2. The penalty is applied in full with the first roll, so it might not be worthwhile to just apply one roll at the higher level. The mats are real cheap for the first couple levels, so why not?

5. Why would you NOT pin blueprints, which im guessing is so you can make the same mod to any thruster anywhere from a station rather than make the trip to engineer.

Thanks for your replys

Because I forget?

This also allows you to choose which equipment you want to pin from each engineer.

 

[Poacher886]

Thanks, infact while i have some experienced folk here , a couple more questions that have frustrated me:

1. Is chaff worth having...i mean what % roughly of Cmdr's use gimbled or turrets?
2. How long does a single chaff last for, and how do i know when it has expired?
3. Why do so many seem to favour 2xchaff modules, is it purely a ammo thing?
4. This is my most frustrating one, how would you know whether the enemy is sporting gimbles anyway??

Thanks again

 

[Ethaidan]

Thanks, infact while i have some experienced folk here , a couple more questions that have frustrated me:

1. Is chaff worth having...i mean what % roughly of Cmdr's use gimbled or turrets?
2. How long does a single chaff last for, and how do i know when it has expired?
3. Why do so many seem to favour 2xchaff modules, is it purely a ammo thing?
4. This is my most frustrating one, how would you know whether the enemy is sporting gimbles anyway??

Thanks again

1. It can be, especially vs NPCs. Loads of Cmdrs use gimbals - they're just to easy not to (vs NPCs).
2. 10 seconds?
3. I don't. Some hull-tanks do - no need for SBs.
4. You won't, until they fire at you.

 

[Poacher886]

4. But in the heat of battle when there firing it all look the same to me?? its not like i can spot if the enemy is perfectly in line with me i.e using fixed?

On a personal level, i reckon gimbled should be even less powerful or removed from the sim altogether, the whole point off combat is to reward experience and flying skills, and to make the very point of getting the enemy into your sights paramont, it seems such a shame they provided a near enough is good enough prospect to all, kind of defeats the whole skill base of combat. Turrets i think are fine, but should only be able to be fitted to slow cargo ships as a defence system. Just my thoughts..

 

[Krash]

It's obvious when you're flying around during combat and your opponent's TOT is constant they have gimbals. Weapon type is a dead giveaway as well, MC are probably gimbals, PA/rails are always fixed.

 

[Poacher886]

It's obvious when you're flying around during combat and your opponent's TOT is constant they have gimbals. Weapon type is a dead giveaway as well, MC are probably gimbals, PA/rails are always fixed.

Sorry. TOT?

 

[Speedcuffs]

Sorry. TOT?

Time on target.

 

[n4p0l3on]

4. But in the heat of battle when there firing it all look the same to me?? its not like i can spot if the enemy is perfectly in line with me i.e using fixed?

On a personal level, i reckon gimbled should be even less powerful or removed from the sim altogether, the whole point off combat is to reward experience and flying skills, and to make the very point of getting the enemy into your sights paramont, it seems such a shame they provided a near enough is good enough prospect to all, kind of defeats the whole skill base of combat. Turrets i think are fine, but should only be able to be fitted to slow cargo ships as a defence system. Just my thoughts..

There's nothing skillful with using fixed weapons that is of any relevance to the actual flying capability, if anything it's the contrary, using gimbal allow you to find new ways to hit the target while having more freedom to maneuver your ship without being forced to follow it's own nose.