A friendly suggestion to modify the Engineers demands

[Sylow]

I think your idea doesn't help and might even make it less blaze your own trail like.Example:I am a combat pilot, not nessesely just BH. I hunt sure, but I also undermine and do BGS work to maintain and expand several factions.All combat but I do travel allot and with a FDL and all that travel I would like a FSD upgrade.With your idea that means I will have to go exploring to get that, witch is not my "trail".

I think you are a prime example of who would profit most of the suggested changes. Consider, at the moment if you want to upgrade you have to go mining, drive your SRV for ages, search USS forever, etc. And i am not making this up, there are reports of people driving their SRVs for hours on the surface of plantets before finally getting the material they need, there are reports of people spending 4 to 6 hours going from one USS to the next, in the search for the one last component missing for the FDS upgrade, without getting it. In contrast, the suggestion here would just require one small adjustment: include an andvanced discovery scanner into your ships setup. This is not a big price to pay. I mean, while i am not really involved in PowerPlay, i tend to grab my FDL and go for a little undermining every four weeks. (Yes, it's only 25 kills, then wait for the rank, buy equipment and switch to another power. ) And my FLD, just like many of my ships, includes an advanced discovery scanner. But just traveling the "jump and honk" way allows me to slowly but steadily increase my exlorer rank, making it outpace my merchant rank. So you could do the very same: whenever you then travel somewhere, be it to go undermining, to go for a CG or whatever, bring the scanner, jump and honk. You can even at the destination system replace it again with a HRP or something, so you don't waste the slot.Doesn't sound that way more convenient and "your trail" then having to refit your FDL for some mining or spend hour after hour on a planets surface, "fighting" some rocks in the hope that they finally drop the one material you still need?

 

[rain_walker]

I think you are a prime example of who would profit most of the suggested changes. Consider, at the moment if you want to upgrade you have to go mining, drive your SRV for ages, search USS forever, etc. And i am not making this up, there are reports of people driving their SRVs for hours on the surface of plantets before finally getting the material they need, there are reports of people spending 4 to 6 hours going from one USS to the next, in the search for the one last component missing for the FDS upgrade, without getting it. In contrast, the suggestion here would just require one small adjustment: include an andvanced discovery scanner into your ships setup. This is not a big price to pay. I mean, while i am not really involved in PowerPlay, i tend to grab my FDL and go for a little undermining every four weeks. (Yes, it's only 25 kills, then wait for the rank, buy equipment and switch to another power. ) And my FLD, just like many of my ships, includes an advanced discovery scanner. But just traveling the "jump and honk" way allows me to slowly but steadily increase my exlorer rank, making it outpace my merchant rank. So you could do the very same: whenever you then travel somewhere, be it to go undermining, to go for a CG or whatever, bring the scanner, jump and honk. You can even at the destination system replace it again with a HRP or something, so you don't waste the slot.Doesn't sound that way more convenient and "your trail" then having to refit your FDL for some mining or spend hour after hour on a planets surface, "fighting" some rocks in the hope that they finally drop the one material you still need?

Exactly, mining wont be fun for an explorer, Bounty hunter, trader or a pirate. only fun to a miner. So why not do what u like to do the best to earn these upgrades? I drove 3 hours for 1 tn of arsenic i felt like blowing my brains out. In the other hand i wouldnt have minded bounty hunting for 7 hours to get the 1 level upgrade.

 

[Holven]

Ok i understrand ur point about equal rights. but shouldn't it be about skills ? rather then luck ? there is no skill at all of driving around looking for materials on planet's surface is there ?

Actually, there is skill involved. Various materials pop up on various types of planets. Knowing a bit about materials and planets, as well as just having experience, makes it easier. Have you noticed that ice balls tend to have a note about volatiles in their flavor text? That means you find those kinds of materials there, for example. Also, realizing that while a mesosiderite may give rares on one type of planet, it is rarely worth it on another type, while that rock that is sooo boring on a planet which gives great yields in mesosiderites, actually is the go to rock on another one. Just recognizing one type from another on the scanner or by the different sounds they make is yet another skill set

So there is skill, in knowledge. I do not claim to have mastered that knowledge yet, but I have enough of an understanding, that I see the patterns of what is to be found where and have started to recognize them.

You make a good point about equal opportunity - an equal playing field. However there is one major flaw in the current way Engineers provides an equal playing field. It is an equal grinding field. Rather than being equally fun for all it is equally unenjoyable for all because we're all having to do things we don't like to do.

We're all grinding on the same equal field for the same things for different upgrades. We're all doing things we don't like to do as a main profession. Level playing field? Yes, to the extent that we're all equally bored. We're all equally not having fun in doing activities we don't enjoy to collect stuff for upgrades.

Whereas with the OPs suggestion at least we'd all be having more fun. Fighters are having fun fighting. Traders are having fun trading. Miners are having fun minning. Explorers are having fun exploring. Smugglers are having fun smuggling. Mission runners are having fun doing missions (missions give money and are also about choosing to do things you like, i.e. trading, fighting, pirating, smuggling, etc).

Ok, so PvPers go for weapon upgrades. But those that do not focus on PvP or even combat altogether still have options for counter upgrades with the OPs idea of upgrading based on what you enjoy doing most. They don't necesarily have to get weapon upgrades to best someone with stronger weapons.

Non-PvPers or those not keen on combat (possibly the players some PvPers choose to attack) can for example go for smuggler upgrades like faster engines (to run with), cooler powerplants and better heatsinks (to counter heat weapons and use silent running). Explorers can also go for faster engines and faster FSD charge times. Traders and Miners can go for better shields and stronger hulls (because traders and miners make good sums of money).

Is it perfect, no. Does the idea of it sound more fun than having to spend time doing activities that we do not enjoy? I would say yes.

There is a lot of assumption here, that the majority of players only prefer one type of activity. Is that really the truth? I don't know. I do know there are quite a few of us that enjoy many, most or all venues. Personally, I do exploration, combat, smuggling, trading, mining, missions.. you name it.

That being said, it still makes some types of upgrades only available to some types of careers. Hyperdrives, thrusters and shields are systems I think all types of players would like to enhance; everyone need/want protection, speed and jump distance, especially now that the AI has grown quite a bit smarter. I think anyone with common sense, would like some sort of weapon improvement. In such a case, the model presented in this thread would require people of one single taste to do something they don't like, no matter which line of work they are in.

As it is, as it has been succinctly put, at least the work needed to get these upgrades, are equal for all.

I also think it is better to think of it as having to "pay" for these superior upgrades with the time you put in. The very nature of the obstacles put in your way seem made with a very specific reason in mind: Engineering upgrades are not meant to be omnipresent or fully distributed, thus not easily grindable. If they were, they could just have skipped the Engineers all together and put them up for sale at hilarious prices.

I do notice that the complaint seems chiefly to be towards driving around on the surface. This is actually an activity which really doesn't belong to any particular career. In actual game play it only relates to missions, finding materials and cargo. If anything, it is combat related, due to drones. It seems to me that it was put there precisely to get materials for synth and engineers. If you are into combat, not only can you find materials for the engineer, but also to make special rounds for projectile weapons. .. Imagine your engineer upgraded missile launcher firing missiles which in them selves have +30% damage. .. This packs a wallop. Making players having to harvest such advantageous ammunition themselves, is only fair.

I do understand that it seems incredibly dull to some, but on the other hand.. I haven't seen a lot of complaining (relative to the amount of players/the amount that complains when complaining really is going on). I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people are satisfied with the system as it is... at least at the moment.

 

[Martian Successor]

There is a lot of assumption here, that the majority of players only prefer one type of activity. Is that really the truth? I don't know. I do know there are quite a few of us that enjoy many, most or all venues. Personally, I do exploration, combat, smuggling, trading, mining, missions.. you name it.

That being said, it still makes some types of upgrades only available to some types of careers. Hyperdrives, thrusters and shields are systems I think all types of players would like to enhance; everyone need/want protection, speed and jump distance, especially now that the AI has grown quite a bit smarter. I think anyone with common sense, would like some sort of weapon improvement. In such a case, the model presented in this thread would require people of one single taste to do something they don't like, no matter which line of work they are in.

As it is, as it has been succinctly put, at least the work needed to get these upgrades, are equal for all.

I also think it is better to think of it as having to "pay" for these superior upgrades with the time you put in. The very nature of the obstacles put in your way seem made with a very specific reason in mind: Engineering upgrades are not meant to be omnipresent or fully distributed, thus not easily grindable. If they were, they could just have skipped the Engineers all together and put them up for sale at hilarious prices.

I do notice that the complaint seems chiefly to be towards driving around on the surface. This is actually an activity which really doesn't belong to any particular career. In actual game play it only relates to missions, finding materials and cargo. If anything, it is combat related, due to drones. It seems to me that it was put there precisely to get materials for synth and engineers. If you are into combat, not only can you find materials for the engineer, but also to make special rounds for projectile weapons. .. Imagine your engineer upgraded missile launcher firing missiles which in them selves have +30% damage. .. This packs a wallop. Making players having to harvest such advantageous ammunition themselves, is only fair.

I do understand that it seems incredibly dull to some, but on the other hand.. I haven't seen a lot of complaining (relative to the amount of players/the amount that complains when complaining really is going on). I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people are satisfied with the system as it is... at least at the moment.

I never made the assumption that the majority of players only prefer one type of activity. I myself dabble in pretty much all of them (except minning). Driving the SRV is one of my favourites but that doesn't mean I'm going to enjoy driving around for days aimlessly (because there is no way currently to know for sure) searching for materials that I suspect might be present on a planet. All the while not knowing if I'm not encountering the materials because RNG hasn't made them drop for me yet or because I'm on the wrong planet.

My main point was that although the OP's ideas isn't a perfect system (just like the current system isn't perfect) it is in the very least a more logical progress route in my opinion. Want weapon upgrades? Do activities that involve using those weapons. Want upgrades that will upgrade FSD? Do activities that require you to explore.

I do understand your point however that it can get just as dictatorial as the current system - like being forced to explore in order to upgrade FSD or forced into combat in order to upgrade weapons. These are indeed upgrades that everyone will want to get. So both systems (the current and the OP's suggestion) are at some point forcing players to do specific activities. The system we have is simply more random than the OP's idea.

And my main concern with the Engineers lies in that randomness. I personally find it too chaotic because of the multitude of layers of RNG that are present in the system. You simply cannot be in charge of how long it takes you to find the ingredients you need and thus you aren't in control of how and when you choose to upgrade. The system of RNG - luck - chooses for you to a great extent. I don't mind the Engineer upgrades themselves using RNG. That adds variety. It's the uncertainty and general randomness in gathering the materials (and commodities from missions) that lets the system down. You could be spending hours finding the right ingredients or days, or weeks, or months, or minutes. It all depends on luck.

It isn't based on your knowledge or your skill. It's random. You simply do not know how long or how much effort is required to gather materials for even so much as that single 2nd level upgrade you might want. It is a proverbial hamster wheel. And a lot of people aren't satisfied with it (depends what posts you read)

There was a splendid and succint way that another fellow player put it,

"It's not about wanting the best in a couple of days, it's about knowing what a couple of days effort will bring."

 

[Rigmor]

If FD Devs read this...MAKE MATERIALS A COMMODITY ON THE MARKET. You are killing the game with grind grind grind, I thought today about playing ED and then remembered I have to go GRIND because I got a negative upgrade to my FSD range...NO NO NO! I didn't bother logging in, if people want to mine, let them mine, if people want to land on planets and search for materials, they can do that, but it's a huige        ' turn off to do anything,

I want to explore GRIND GRIND GRIND, NO FD, just NO! You need to rethink the whole gameplay from the start. I am not going to WASTE MY TIME any more grinding.
Will wait and see how this all pans out, I played EVE for 5 years, and they broke it, i dont play anymore...

 

[Holven]

I get the unpredictability issues.

I do know missions can give materials as reward now, and by many this is regarded as the more expedient solution. I have to agree that the drop rate of various elements are incredibly low.

It does mean nobody can easily stock up on "special effects", which I still think was the idea.

Imagine the repercussions of making all these materials readily accessible.

You could expect every fighter to use the best ammunition and weapons ALL the time. Everyone use these specials with Everything.

This might eventually still become the case. I would rather have people get these advantages after having to struggle to get them, than just purchasing them off the rack.

It is a measure of control.

They still could make drops a tad higher without wrecking their system.