A proposed fix to piracy being worthless and trading being all about the biggest ship

Make goods valuable! Creates more trading choices, rewards mining, provides a reason to pirate npcs

The solution is simple.

Multiply the value (but not the margins) of all cargo by at least 10, and the more expensive items closer to 25. But keep the margins the same (or don't increase them by nearly as much, maybe double them for the highest value goods)

Specifics on resulting profit margins:
Apply the cost changes
Look at what good is now about the cost of what palladium was
Give that the same profit margin palladium usually had
Give palladium roughly 2x the profit margin (at 25x the cost) and scale down until the cheapest item (say, biowaste) has roughly half the profit margin potential of the new "palladium equivalent" good, on average (obviously supply and demand concerns will factor into this)

Thus: Make cargo worth the investment! Instead of having all cargo be incredibly cheap, have those tons of high tech cargo (or whatever) actually cost a bunch of credits! Introduce more range in these higher prices!

The result:
Suddenly, trading in a bigger ship becomes a choice. Smaller ship means more liquidity means you can afford the more expensive higher margin cargo. Right now, that's not even a concern - if you can afford the cargo, you can afford the bigger ship! So make it a choice - do I buy a bigger ship and make my money in bulk, or run a smaller ship to trade higher value items... at the risk of losing all that precious uninsured cargo! Do I buy cheaper goods that are safer, or spend all my cash rolling the dice that I can make this delivery? For any trader that doesn't like these changes, literally the only thing that would be effected, if you choose to ignore the choices it now offers, is the name of the trade good you deal in will change from, say, "palladium" to some other name good, like "agricultural equipment".

Suddenly, piracy becomes attractive. With smaller margins relative to unit price and higher unit prices, even after the hit for selling at a black market a pirate can easily make money, so long as they target traders carrying high value items. Right no, there isn't a single good in the game worth the time (forget the effort and cost) of pirating it. Make that change, and piracy suddenly becomes viable!

With profitable piracy, we could easily raise bounties placed on pirates significantly, which would have knock-off benefits to bounty hunters!

Finally, mining becomes financially worth the time it takes to scoop that junk up.
 
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While I PERSONALLY am down with that idea (yo ho), I suspect there'd be a LOT of unhappiness if such a change were made.

It's a fair enough point, though - a lot of real world cargoes are orders of magnitude more valuable than the ships carrying them.
 
Making the NPC pirates more intelligent would be a start. They seem to fire at you for no particular reason- even if you have no cargo.
 
Suddenly a 8 million (~500 palladium) credit loss is now 80 million, wait no expensive items are x25 so 200 million credit loss on death.

And you want to keep the margins the same? Avg ~1.5k per ton max? Maxing out at 5-10 million credits per hour? So when a trader dies in a minute long encounter he is set back 8-20 hours of trading (which he is also susceptible to dying again in unless he's in solo/private)?

This is a terrible idea. It's only an attractive idea to you because you are a pirate, and cargo would be worth more when you sell it.
Get a job pirate, trade like the rest of us!
 

Deleted member 38366

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I think it is a good idea - not so much because of the impact upon Piracy, but because it would make a lot more of the trade goods actually worth trading. Right now you just dock and fill with whatever the highest value item is simply because nothing actually costs a lot. Even 13k Palladium is easy to stuff into your holds. And if margins remain as they are then the risk/reward ratio for low cost items would be much more attractive than for the high price items.
 
I don't like it, goods are already expensive now, at least the most popularly traded ones. At 10x the price a ton of palladium will be 140k that's as much as a viper.

To fix piracy all you need is a faster way to scoop and a way to get traders to drop more cargo.
 

Hyperlethal

Banned
LOL people will not want this? sorry but the risk should mirror the reward! the only thing that needs to be fixed with piracy is the addition of a group feature! one ship to do the threatening and another to haul the booty but this is coming :)
 
I don't like it, goods are already expensive now, at least the most popularly traded ones. At 10x the price a ton of palladium will be 140k that's as much as a viper.

To fix piracy all you need is a faster way to scoop and a way to get traders to drop more cargo.

I don't necessarily agree with the idea, but at the same time a ton of palladium should probably be worth more than a Viper, a lot more in fact.
 

Snakebite

Banned
not sure that everyone here thinks we need more pirates.

WE URGENTLY NEED MORE PIRATES - I've bounty hunted in hundreds of systems and so far i've encountered 2 pirates............. There is barely a wanted player in sight and bounty hunting sucks because of it.........
 
The LAST thing we need is even more expensive commodities. As it is, very few commodities get traded, because the margin (value, not percent) is only in a few commodities. So there will be even more focus on those if the values go up. I would prefer all sorts of fixes to the model so that there is a point for someone to trade in the low and middle priced stuff, though quite how FD could make that happen is not clear to me. But in the real world, you don't have 'a man and a van' hauling around lots of gold: you get very expensive security vans with expensive convoys (aka wingmen) so that the costs of transporting the gold makes a significant dent in the profit to be made.
 
I am mainly a trader-explorer and I agree with OP that the cargo is terribly cheap.
The proof of that is that you directly think about Palladium that is the second most expensive commodity. How many of us have ever put low price commodities in the cargo hold?
Actually, only commodities that cost 5000 cr or more are a valid target, the rest is just noise (I read that in a trading tutorial)
Why not increase the price of most commodities to have more variety of choice?
Also, I think that with an increased price, the variation in prices can be more for low level commodities, being able to find a profitable route of Explosives, Food or even Biowaste. This should also lower the "only look for industrial, high tech or refinery" issue.

As a side benefit, mining should still be boring, but a little more profitable. Reducing chances of finding high level metals, some people will conform with indite, and few will go from rock to rock for half an hour trying to find Platinum. And maybe a big ship will be happy mining tons and tons of Lepidolite.

Side note to mining, low price (common) chunks should have big percentages, making easy to collect huge quantities, and rare commodities should be of less percentage, having to scoop a lot of chunks to get a ton. I.e. one chunk with 1.8 tons of Rutile, other chunk with 0.05 tons of platinum. After scooping 20 chunks of each you will have 36 tons of Rutile (14832 cr actual average price) and only 1 ton of platinum (18840 cr actual average price)
 
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WE URGENTLY NEED MORE PIRATES - I've bounty hunted in hundreds of systems and so far i've encountered 2 pirates............. There is barely a wanted player in sight and bounty hunting sucks because of it.........
That's because criminal behaviour isn't sticky. Fines for destroying other players are low and easily paid off.
Repeatedly breaking the law (where it exists) should result in a criminal record the negative effects that come with said record.
 
I is all about the margin guys. If I can fly 1 ton of material and make 1,000 credits off it, why would I fly something that only nets me 25 credits. Prices need to change enough to allow margins to be equivalent. I am not saying that all items in a market should allow 1000 creds per ton, just that all market items should have that capability somewhere in the galaxy. Running scrap to somewhere hard should allow 1000 creds to be made. This isn't looking for an easy mode to trading...it's just asking that all materials have value enough to ship...sometimes you can get these margins in missions...that would be one way to do it.
 
Bad idea... Really bad idea... Like saying- make all pirate bounties 10 times higher... Good for the bounty hunters...
 
The real issue is the lack of a true in-game economy. Everything has arbitrary values rather than values based on supply and demand. For reference:

Palladium price per ton: 13,527 cr
Viper price per ton: 2382 cr
Cobra price per ton: 2110 cr
Asp price per ton: 23,790 cr
Python price per ton: 162,795 cr
Anaconda price per ton: 367,424 cr

Now it should be obvious to anyone with even the most basic understanding of economics that these numbers can not possibly tied to any kind of real economy with supply and demand. No, these prices are obviously arbitrary and completely divorced from any kind of economy. In real life a metric ton of palladium is worth around 50 million US dollars just so you know, so in real life a single ton of this stuff would make a pirate quite rich. The issue is that palladium, and every other commodity in the game doesn't actually have a value based on anything. It's just a number. Ship and module prices are the same. Just arbitrary numbers. Commodities aren't actually used to build ships, modules, or stations, they're just numbers with no real meaning. This makes every monetary activity in the game hollow and ultimately robs many activities of any lucrative value because of the arbitrarily high prices that are placed on certain ships and modules. So if you want to be a pirate and actually make enough money to actually afford anything above a Cobra you will have to pirate literally hundreds or even thousands of ships. This is why trading is considered the best money making technique, because it is the best way to move around arbitrary numbers in bulk for profit.

What should've been done, and I think it's probably too late for this now, is that the game should've had realistic prices and scarcity on various commodities and those commodities should've been directly tied to the production and price of ships and modules. Truthfully you probably shouldn't be able to load up with hundreds of tons of precious metals at any and every extraction station. In the entire world there is less than 200,000 tons of refined gold for instance, and most of that is spread throughout the population, in stockpiles as well as finished products, and it certainly is not obtainable in quantities of hundreds of tons by any random trader. You see if gold and other precious metals were as common in real life as they are in ED they wouldn't be precious anymore. They would all have values on par with lead and aluminum, or at best iron or nickel.

In other words, the economy in this game is a joke and needs to be completely overhauled.

Fun fact: based on real world palladium prices an Anaconda is worth somewhere around 700 billion dollars.
 
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