PvP A question of honour

[Auronio]

This is not a rant.

Just a lack of understanding.

Was the whole afternoon/evening sitting at the Synuefe site for Guardian grind, mats, data and blueprints.
First with a team mate, we winged up, later on when he left, two other players dropped in. Everything alrighty, o7 and we helped each other.

Dropping relicts, activating pylons etc..

Later in the evening - the other two guys had left - another two guys dropped in, again no issue.

Then - now - another CMDR coming, me running in my buggy and suddenly got the message my AspX would be attacked.
Ok, no issue, logged out waiting for my 15 seconds and relogged in solo.

But why?
Do these guys have no scintilla of honour? Personally I believe it's simply a no-go to attack others who are defenseless, but yes I know, newbies in their Sideys are attacked and killed either way, so why should I be surprised.

It's just I can't get the idea what somebody would like to prove with activities I simply consider an act of dishonourableness.

Anyway - you don't really need to comment, just wanted to share my quick thoughts.

Night and o7.

 

[Riverside]

I've visited Guardian sites while other players were there & the resources just run out more quickly. Unless you're actually helping a friend (or want help yourself) this kind of thing is better done in a clean instance anyway.

As far as shooting is concerned I think some players are just more easily offended but I do tend to dismiss my ship so others can park in my spot if they want to.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Its not about honor but skill. And if you are in Open, at a guardian location, in your srv and dont dismiss your ship you have none.

 

[moorison]

I've visited Guardian sites while other players were there & the resources just run out more quickly. Unless you're actually helping a friend (or want help yourself) this kind of thing is better done in a clean instance anyway.

In my opinion the atmosphere (through the sound design and music) works best if you solve the puzzles alone. To me flying there in open is like playing a suspenseful / horror game (Dead Space 3) with somebody, the effect is gone. You are not alone in an alien and slightly dangerous environment and you have to deal with the behaviour of other players too, taking you out of the "intended" experience.

 

[Captain Jack Sparrow]

This is not a rant.

Just a lack of understanding.

Was the whole afternoon/evening sitting at the Synuefe site for Guardian grind, mats, data and blueprints.
First with a team mate, we winged up, later on when he left, two other players dropped in. Everything alrighty, o7 and we helped each other.

Dropping relicts, activating pylons etc..

Later in the evening - the other two guys had left - another two guys dropped in, again no issue.

Then - now - another CMDR coming, me running in my buggy and suddenly got the message my AspX would be attacked.
Ok, no issue, logged out waiting for my 15 seconds and relogged in solo.

But why?
Do these guys have no scintilla of honour? Personally I believe it's simply a no-go to attack others who are defenseless, but yes I know, newbies in their Sideys are attacked and killed either way, so why should I be surprised.

It's just I can't get the idea what somebody would like to prove with activities I simply consider an act of dishonourableness.

Anyway - you don't really need to comment, just wanted to share my quick thoughts.

Night and o7.

This is how people are in real life, so seeing this behavior in a game should be no surprise to you or anyone. There are people who take advantage of the weak, defenseless, naive, etc. If they weren't, we'd have no crime in the world. But we do. FWIW, my first time visiting a guardian site a year ago, I got caught with my pants down too. The thing is, I knew better, ignored my gut, and paid for it. When in open, I try to always assume a criminal is right around the corner ready to take me down. I try to build every ship in a way that increases my chances of survival. Speed, shields, engineered, and a game plan. Trust no one. o7

 

[Vandaahl]

But why?

Because they want you to ask that question.

 

[Havvk]

This is not a rant.

Just a lack of understanding.

Was the whole afternoon/evening sitting at the Synuefe site for Guardian grind, mats, data and blueprints.
First with a team mate, we winged up, later on when he left, two other players dropped in. Everything alrighty, o7 and we helped each other.

Dropping relicts, activating pylons etc..

Later in the evening - the other two guys had left - another two guys dropped in, again no issue.

Then - now - another CMDR coming, me running in my buggy and suddenly got the message my AspX would be attacked.
Ok, no issue, logged out waiting for my 15 seconds and relogged in solo.

But why?
Do these guys have no scintilla of honour? Personally I believe it's simply a no-go to attack others who are defenseless, but yes I know, newbies in their Sideys are attacked and killed either way, so why should I be surprised.

It's just I can't get the idea what somebody would like to prove with activities I simply consider an act of dishonourableness.

Anyway - you don't really need to comment, just wanted to share my quick thoughts.

Night and o7.

Did your asp have any weapons on her?

 

[krylite]

Having a ship ambushed while parked on terrain is just another form of ambush ganking. When I was starting out in my smaller ships with no engineering (which I had put off doing for a year) and often with subpar modules and shields, a few times while coming to land in a station or on a base, I suddenly felt my ship suffer catastrophic damage then blew up, then the dead report said I was killed by cmdr so-and-so. I finally realized I probably had been rammed or squashed by ramming ganker jerks.

 

[Deleted member 115407]

Its not about honor but skill. And if you are in Open, at a guardian location, in your srv and dont dismiss your ship you have none.

Ouch... truth.

OP, I started pirating a while back. I quickly learned that I have no honor when play a bad guy - I will steal anything from anybody, any rank, will use crimes to bait victims, etc. Whatever I have to do to win.

I recently started PKing for fun, and the same applies.

In the end, it's just a video game. And if I'm going to play the bad guy, I'm going to play the bad guy.

 

[voidwalker]

When it comes to "honour", I agree with Indianna Jones.

[video=youtube_share;3I_Ds2ytz4o]https://youtu.be/3I_Ds2ytz4o[/video]

And Bron

[video=youtube_share;LF0wa0W13yw]https://youtu.be/LF0wa0W13yw[/video]

I prefer to win.

 

[voidwalker]

Ouch... truth.

OP, I started pirating a while back. I quickly learned that I have no honor when play a bad guy - I will steal anything from anybody, any rank, will use crimes to bait victims, etc. Whatever I have to do to win.

I recently started PKing for fun, and the same applies.

In the end, it's just a video game. And if I'm going to play the bad guy, I'm going to play the bad guy.

It's not just the 'bad guys' who fight without honour, but the 'heroes' too. In both the videos above, the protagonists are considered heroes in the story. Fighting clean is for sport. In a more organic, dynamic conflict, however, if you don't fight dirty, your enemy will. So get a head start.

 

[AP Birdman]

It's not a question of honor because it's just a video game. Sounds to me like someone was just playing a like a bad guy and the OP took it too seriously.

 

[Riverside]

It's not just the 'bad guys' who fight without honour, but the 'heroes' too. In both the videos above, the protagonists are considered heroes in the story. Fighting clean is for sport. In a more organic, dynamic conflict, however, if you don't fight dirty, your enemy will. So get a head start.

Winning in this case being to gain control of a stale instance?

 

[voidwalker]

Winning in this case being to gain control of a stale instance?

"Winning" being successfully completing your objectives. The Battle of the Coral Sea was a tactical loss for American and Australian naval forces, resulting in more than twice as much naval tonnage loss compared to the Japanese, including the sinking of the USS Lexington. But it was a strategic victory, because it halted the invasion of Port Moresby.

 

[Riverside]

"Winning" being successfully completing your objectives. The Battle of the Coral Sea was a tactical loss for American and Australian naval forces, resulting in more than twice as much naval tonnage loss compared to the Japanese, including the sinking of the USS Lexington. But it was a strategic victory, because it halted the invasion of Port Moresby.

The OP successfully completed their objective using the 15 sec timer.

 

[voidwalker]

The OP successfully completed their objective using the 15 sec timer.

I don't remember saying anything about what the OP did. I was talking about the concept of 'honour' being a useless one. One could argue that logging off is itself 'dishonourable', especially considering it's not a real in-game/universe method of escape. I don't personally care if it is or isn't, because 'honour' is an antiquated concept relegated exclusively to fiction and romanticised stories about heroes and villains. All throughout history, there are examples of armies fighting with 'honour' losing to those fighting without it, such as the last of the French knights losing to common English archers in the 15th (I think) century.

EDIT: look up the Battle of Agincourt (pronounced ajin-coo, btw), I was right, 15th Century.

 

[Riverside]

I don't remember saying anything about what the OP did. I was talking about the concept of 'honour' being a useless one. One could argue that logging off is itself 'dishonourable', especially considering it's not a real in-game/universe method of escape. I don't personally care if it is or isn't, because 'honour' is an antiquated concept relegated exclusively to fiction and romanticised stories about heroes and villains. All throughout history, there are examples of armies fighting with 'honour' losing to those fighting without it, such as the last of the French knights losing to common English archers in the 15th (I think) century.

EDIT: look up the Battle of Agincourt (pronounced ajin-coo, btw), I was right, 15th Century.

Yeah I think your analogies are about war & the OP's example is more about tomb raiding. While I can see a case for wanting to stop someone from nicking stuff from the xenological site for any number of reasons (including wanting them for yourself) the game does not allow for this with most items and Ancient Relics and Keys being destroyed with the ship or SRV (and consumed by the puzzle when used). You're just better off with a fresh instance than one already occupied by a player.

So in the example in the OP there is no in-lore benefit to destroying another players ship other than not having to park quite so far away.

In addition there is the simple argument that anything not specifically prohibited is fair enough, which applies to both antagonist and protagonist.

While I can appreciate your argument that 'honour will get you killed', attacking the pre-existing player in this instance shows only a lack of understanding of how the game works, or a deliberate intent to frustrate (which is countered by the 15 sec timer frustrating the attacker instead).

Your war stories won't help you here I'm afraid, as interesting as they are.

 

[Florenus]

Its not about honor but skill. And if you are in Open, at a guardian location, in your srv and dont dismiss your ship you have none.

When you attack landed defenceless ship, you must have great skill.
And it's known tactics to use your parked ship Point Defence against guardian skimmer's missiles, you know.

But yeah OP, when playing in Open jerks happen. I wouldn't do Guardian Site in Open simply because I wouldn't want their winning personalities to spoil atmosphere of the place. I use them when I want some thrills flying my shieldless T9 at CG in Open.

 

[voidwalker]

Yeah I think your analogies are about war & the OP's example is more about tomb raiding. While I can see a case for wanting to stop someone from nicking stuff from the xenological site for any number of reasons (including wanting them for yourself) the game does not allow for this with most items and Ancient Relics and Keys are destroyed with the ship or SRV (and consumed by the puzzle when used).

So in the example in the OP there is no in-lore benefit to destroying another players ship other than not having to park quite so far away.

In addition there is the simple argument that anything not specifically prohibited is fair enough, which applies to both antagonist and protagonist.

Your war stories won't help you here I'm afraid, as interesting as they are.

None of what you just said is relevant to what I'm talking about. I have not criticised the OP for logging out, I have only criticised the idea that "there is no honour in what you've done" is a legitimate criticism. The point of my war stories was to demonstrate that 'honour' is irrelevant. The videos I posted weren't even about war, they were a demonstration of how even the heroes don't always fight with honour.

"...there is no in-lore benefit to destroying another players ship other than not having to park quite so far away."

Doesn't matter. You're assuming the intent of the players behind the attempt to kill his ship. They don't have to be after any specific 'benefit' to do that, and there are plenty of in-universe reasons for it to happen. The galaxy is a big place, it's bound to have a crazies in it that are just out for the thrill of making other peoples' stuff blow up. Visiting on the intentions of other players is a fool's errand and a zero sum game. Their intentions are irrelevant, what matters is they're playing the game the way they want to.

But there is, of course, a benefit. Forcing other people out of the instance, whether it's getting them to log off to another mode, or blowing them up, means the instance now belongs to you.

 

[Riverside]

None of what you just said is relevant to what I'm talking about.

None of what your were talking about was relevant to my posts

I updated my post (that you just quoted) while you were typing out your response, it may clarify my position a little. I agree having no sense of honour is a valid way to play.