A Serious Question, Does Griefs/Gankers truly do harm to Elite Dangerous

Red Rocket

Red Rocket
So this is a serious question does Griefs/Gankers truly do harm to Elite Dangerous game reputation and keeping many commanders from enjoying the game to its fullest.

I have been playing for about 3 years and have over 2000 hours in and truly love this game over all others. When flying around I rarely see other commanders, I know you can find commanders at hot spots, CC goals, engineer’s systems but you will also find Griefs/Gankers

I have two teenage sons that have no interest in playing Elite because of what they have read on line in redit and other gamming sites.

That Elite is a giant sand box full of Griefs/Gankers and you must grind for months just to get a good enough to be safe. When I told them that its just not true, they asked when I was on DW2 why did I play only in PG Fleetcomm.



(Case 1)

Distant Worlds Two had 13,000 commanders sign up and 10,000 plus actively head off into the black only to be hunted and harassed by about 50 Griefers known as Distant Gankers forcing many into private groups or solo. FleetComm was over loaded by the sudden increases of applicants for the FleetComm PG, it took them a couple of weeks to process all the requests. Many articles were written about the Griefing/Ganking of DW2 which clouded what DW2 was all about, 10,000 plus getting together and enjoying a gaming experience for a few months, unheard of in the gaming world.

(case 2)

My first day playing Elite in my starter system and getting blown up in my Sidewinder and a cmdr seeing my destruction messages me and offers to join his private group, he recommends me to play only in PG Mobius or solo and get out of the starter system.

(case 3)

I was doing the Palin mission and landed at the scout ship in solo I did a board flip for material and jumped into open, and when I did there were 5 other ships on the ground. Two commanders were trying to scan the Scout Ship way point. This was just hilarious to watch commanders struggling to scan the point below the ground. Watching and giving technical advice on wow to scan the scout, all having a good time communicating over voice or text when a ship started shooting at the parked ships on the ground. We all scrambled I went back into solo and the fun we were all having was gone.

(Case 4)

The update drops with new Guardian fighters and a new puzzle to solve at the new Guardian beacon. I flew a ways outside the bubble in my AspX explorer ship and when I arrive I find 6 other cmdr’s in open checking out the beacon all in small ships, Diamondbacks, AspX, Hauler ? with no weapons or only small laser type weapons. We start taking turns scanning and taking the Key, talking and having a great time. Then In drops a cutter and FDL and starts attacking “Griefing” we all scatter and the enjoyment is gone.
Now in solo I flew 10k away and went back into open and it looked dead then laser lights started flashing some poor Asp getting it now, I was done for the night and signed off .



When on expeditions’ its common to invite other commanders into your friends list, I now have over 150 friends on my friends list and when playing I normally see my online friends are mainly playing in PG or Solo.

When flying around the bubble in open I rarely find other commanders. When dropping in on a Guardian site or Dav’s Hope ect., and find commanders on the ground they often will instantly switch off, I assume for fear of griefers or just being paranoid.


Effects Griefs/Gankers have on the Game

  1. Damaging reviews of the game from online sources
  2. Keeping many commanders from playing in open
  3. Being paranoid and not wanting to socialize when in open
  4. A small minority have a huge effect on how the majority play the game
  5. Keeping commanders from have fun like in case 3 & 4
  6. Keeping the game from being more popular than it should be.
  7. Frontier having to get involved when Griefers lied and got into Fleetcomm to cause grief.
  8. Causing most Expeditions to be held mostly in Private Groups


So many times, I hear if you don’t want to get Griefed you should just play in Solo or PG. How can this be healthy for the longevity of any online game might as well just sell me an offline version. While on Expeditions and in private groups I find commanders friendly and eager to share the gaming experience and helping any commander that need assistance.

This game should encourage commanders to come together and enjoy this beautiful game not to hide in solo and be afraid to interact.
 

M00ka

M00ka
CMDR Maylor Rom said:
OP, I respect your position and agree with your comments. Unfortunately for the Elite players, Frontier does nothing to stop these activities and most here on this forum will tell you one of two things. Either get "good" at combat, or that ganking is a sanctioned style of play. Throw in the cheaters using unsanctioned tools and we are left with what you so passionately describe.

Thousands of suggestions have been made to prevent this, but Frontier seems unlikely to implement them. The closest in-game solution by Frontier was a "Crime and Punishment" system, which can be turned on and off, but does not really address the problem. All you can really do is "block" those players who cause you grief.

Now, in this thread, will come all those with many different positions and suggestions, but I doubt you will find any of them acceptable or realistic.

Most of us just put up with it, get good at combat, build tank ships or play in Solo or PG. I for one just quit playing all together.

If Frontier ever decides to address these issues in some meaningful way, I may come back.

o7....
Click to expand...
Well said Commander and I agree with you. It will be quite interesting to see what some of the responses to the OP are. They can't be more 'intelligent' than the advice that is given out now. Like when some new player mistakenly complains about getting killed whilst trying to get to an Engineer. The typical responses are:
  1. The good old 'GIT GUD', uttered by everyone who has forgotten they were beginner players themselves.
  2. The tried and true 'Go hide in Solo/PG then', which is normally followed up by 'Why are so many hiding in Solo/PG, I can't find anyone in Open'
  3. My personal favourite "Well noob, get your ship Engineered and you won't get killed". Ah the deep intelligence in that response always gives me a giggle, since the poor unfortunate player was attempting to do just that, get his ship Engineered. A small detail missed by the masterful expert is seems.
 
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Ebel

Ebel
CMDR M. Lehman said:
I'll just sidestep the hand-wringing and answer your question:

No, gankers aren't doing harm to Elite. It sounds very much like you've unknowingly provided the answer (playing in a PG with like-minded people) to the problems that you insist are killing the game.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, I don't note where OP says it's killing the game. Perhaps you can enlighten me.
 

CMDR M. Lehman

CMDR M. Lehman
Ebel said:
I'm sorry, I don't note where OP says it's killing the game. Perhaps you can enlighten me.
Click to expand...

Certainly. And no, he didn't specifically say "killing the game", but he's sure making some bold generalizations— most of which are demonstrably false, exaggerated, or unprovable.

Red Rocket said:
Effects Griefs/Gankers have on the Game

  1. Damaging reviews of the game from online sources
  2. Keeping many commanders from playing in open
  3. Being paranoid and not wanting to socialize when in open
  4. A small minority have a huge effect on how the majority play the game
  5. Keeping commanders from have fun like in case 3 & 4
  6. Keeping the game from being more popular than it should be.
  7. Frontier having to get involved when Griefers lied and got into Fleetcomm to cause grief.
  8. Causing most Expeditions to be held mostly in Private Groups
Click to expand...
 

Ebel

Ebel
CMDR M. Lehman said:
His list is still full of subjectivity, generalizations, and unsupported claims. I cannot recommend PG enough for him since he's so eager to give total power over how he perceives open to players he's never even met before.
Click to expand...

Well, I might agree with that. Life is full of "subjectivity". Secondly, I don't think OP is opining over players he has not met before.

edit; make that think
 

andrewg_oz

andrewg_oz
As far as I'm concerned, if just one player stops playing Elite because of anti-social behaviour, then that's harming the game. You can make up whatever excuses you like for poor behaviour, but the end result is fewer players than would otherwise be playing.

Most people come to this game wanting a social experience. That counts solo out. When you're a new player private groups aren't even a selectable option! How does a new player even find out about the large PvE groups that experienced players are familiar with? Most players never visit the official forums or reddit (that's a well-established fact right across all gaming communities) where they might be able to find out.

The end result is that for new players who are looking for social gameplay, Open is their only option. They aren't choosing Open, because for a new player who wants social gameplay there is no other choice.

Once you're in Open, all it takes is one negative experience for you to start thinking about playing something else entirely or resigning yourself to solo.

In my opinion, splitting Open into "Open PvP" and "Open PvE" is the answer. The option needs to be immediately available right at the main menu to new players. I believe the PvP and PvE playstyles are so different and incompatible that a "PvP flag" in the existing Open mode would simply end up annoying both sides. Best to keep them completely separate.
 

Red Rocket

Red Rocket
I am not complaining at all about the Ganking/Griefing in the game.

With well over 2000 hours in VR, I am Triple Elite on two accounts and all engineers unlocked on both accounts. I know how to play in Open so that I am not bothered by undesirable actions at all.
Its just some of the most fun I have had in this game is playing with others in spontaneous meetup or an expedition PG.

After many hours playing Elite Dangerous I have to wonder if Ganking has a negative impact on the game and if it would be more popular if there was less.



(Case 5)

Polygon Article 1/31/2018

Griefers in Elite: Dangerous are picking on a cancer patient

Remember Dove Enigma
 

CMDR M. Lehman

CMDR M. Lehman
andrewg_oz said:
As far as I'm concerned, if just one player stops playing Elite because of anti-social behaviour, then that's harming the game. You can make up whatever excuses you like for poor behaviour, but the end result is fewer players than would otherwise be playing.

Most people come to this game wanting a social experience. That counts solo out. When you're a new player private groups aren't even a selectable option! How does a new player even find out about the large PvE groups that experienced players are familiar with? Most players never visit the official forums or reddit (that's a well-established fact right across all gaming communities) where they might be able to find out.

The end result is that for new players who are looking for social gameplay, Open is their only option. They aren't choosing Open, because for a new player who wants social gameplay there is no other choice.

Once you're in Open, all it takes is one negative experience for you to start thinking about playing something else entirely or resigning yourself to solo.

In my opinion, splitting Open into "Open PvP" and "Open PvE" is the answer. The option needs to be immediately available right at the main menu to new players. I believe the PvP and PvE playstyles are so different and incompatible that a "PvP flag" in the existing Open mode would simply end up annoying both sides. Best to keep them completely separate.
Click to expand...

Open mode isn't for everyone. Trying to destroy what makes open "open" isn't the answer. And if a single negative experience is enough to make someone rage-quit, then it's arguable that something as complex and steep-learning-curved as Elite was never the right game for them anyway.
 

Ebel

Ebel
Red Rocket said:
I am not complaining at all about the Ganking/Griefing in the game.

With well over 2000 hours in VR, I am Triple Elite on two accounts and all engineers unlocked on both accounts. I know how to play in Open so that I am not bothered by undesirable actions at all.
Its just some of the most fun I have had in this game is playing with others in spontaneous meetup or an expedition PG.

After many hours playing Elite Dangerous I have to wonder if Ganking has a negative impact on the game and if it would be more popular if there was less.



(Case 5)

Polygon Article 1/31/2018

Griefers in Elite: Dangerous are picking on a cancer patient

Remember Dove Enigma
Click to expand...

I "generally" agree with you
 

IndigoWyrd

IndigoWyrd
"Ganking" is just a factor of Open World PvP play. It happens. It can be a little annoying at worst, but generally doesn't have any long-lasting consequences.

"Griefing" on the other hand, intentionally, repeatedly engaging and often "killing" other players is harmful overall. It is a form of harassment, largely tolerated by both the community and the game's administrators, under the flimsy excuse of "fair game play", especially when the game play is anything but fair. This was at least recognized with the changes to the Starter systems, restricting access from outside influence.

The harm does is to the reputation of the community, and it can be irreparable. As much as the die-hard Griefer will argue, the simple fact remains: No one wants to play with a bunch of @holes, including other @holes.

Gain a reputation for being that kind of community, and you can count on fewer and fewer people wanting to engage with that community.

Open already carries some of that stigma around here, enough that it will likely never shed it.

I think to another game I play, somewhat regularly, that features an Open star system, but PvE and PvP are separated. The space on and around a particular planet can be designated as PvE or PvP. The PvP community is every bit as opinionated and passionate about blowing each other up as here, but at the same time, they are also vastly more humane as well. Lose enough of your ship to find yourself floating in space, and that other player will likely offer you a ride back to whichever planet you came from in their ship.

We wouldn't expect that sort of thing here.
 

Ebel

Ebel
CMDR M. Lehman said:
Open mode isn't for everyone. Trying to destroy what makes open "open" isn't the answer. And if a single negative experience is enough to make someone rage-quit, then it's arguable that a game as complex as steep-learning-curved as Elite was never the right game for them anyway.
Click to expand...

Okay, I don't see OP advocating "distroying open". I also don't perceive that OP is talking about one negative experience. And where did the "rage-quit" come from? really?
 

CMDR M. Lehman

CMDR M. Lehman
Ebel said:
Okay, I don't see OP advocating "distroying open". I also don't perceive that OP is talking about one negative experience. And where did the "rage-quit" come from? really?
Click to expand...
I wasn't responding to the OP, but to the poster I quoted.

And yes: PvE-only open isn't open. Not truly. And if a person is the sort to even consider giving up a game after a single setback, then what is there to say about such a delicate soul?
 
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