A Sidewinder Challenge

I've been playing for a while now so in order to find new ways to enjoy the game I usually try to experience new things, but this time I decided to try something old. But in a new way to see how the game feels from a starting perspective. The best way to accomplish this was jump back into the most challenging little all rounder in the game: the Sidewinder. I plan on doing this until 2.1 comes out. In Open ;)

I figure that any skills I gain in survival will transfer over to any better ship. Once I master the Sidey, I'll try the same fixed kinetic build in all the small ships. Though I am thinking I'll probably settle on either the Viper III or the DBS for open PVP.

The fun hurdles for Sidey:

-slow, which makes it hard to control your distance
-weak shields, which means the only way to avoid damage is by controlling range (see above!) Or by heavy use of chaff
-weak hull, this can be somewhat over come by having a small hit box, and adding armor and hull packages

Advantages:

-maneuverable, which makes dodging fire slightly easier than most ships, and makes aiming/sniping with fixed weapons more doable, if less steady
-small hit box, which makes the shields last much longer at >1.5km
-extremely cheap


So here is my sidewinder build, souped up a little but with a few extra challenges added on top. Fixed kinetic MCs weapons only. A basic Bi weave shield, and 2 chaff.

http://coriolis.io/outfit/sidewinde...52f.Iw1-EA==.Aw1-EA==?bn=Sidewinder Challenge

With this build, fighting any other ship is a actually quite a challenge. Dangerous Cobras become a serious threat and can require a hasty retreat. Faster ships are quite difficult to flank and ships with turrets are a special kind of treat.

This build will definitely help you learn how to aim, how to kite, and how to evade fire.

WHY A SIDEWINDER?

Well any ship above a sidewinder starts to become just easy enough that winning is almost a forgone conclusion. ED spawns ships based on the class of ship that you're flying. Some ships are at the top, some are in the middle, and some are at the bottom of their class. Apart from the Hauler, the Sidewinder is at the rock bottom of its class, and this means that any fight you encounter will be epic by definition.

WHY FIXED MULTICANNONS?

This makes fights last longer which creates tension and allows AI time to enact their full suite of moves. It also gives you time to study the AI's evasive maneuvers (which we can use also btw!). But most importantly, it really helps for working on aiming with fixed non-hitscan weapons. And if you can hit with these, then hitting with rails or fixed beams should be a cake walk.

Hope you try this too and let me know what you think. If you have already done this please post your build and share your experiences, explaining why you picked that build and what you learned from it.
 
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As a Fan of the Sidewinder I am interested to hear how this turns out

I have generally gone with Multi-role outfitting as I running a variety of missions

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=142826

Has my most recent outfitting choices, synthesis meaning the railgun can be reloaded.
Found it best to keep as many Pips to Engines as possible and cycle between attack phases and evasion/shield recharge phases.

Used to use a Turreted Beam, that with manoeuvre could keep a shot on target continuously, but the damage output was too low, and it prolonged the fight, increasing the chance I would screw up and get killed.

Being out exploring, I haven't tried the A2 vs the Biweave shields options, the loss of 12 MJ might be worth the recharge rate.
I found with Chaff, when I needed it was when I had run out of SYS capacitor and so couldn't use it anyway
 
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Only because you ask...

I have done it recently in an E-rated stock Sidewinder. During my first flight in my "new life" I was interdicted by a 'Master'-rated Viper MkIII and it was indeed a quite thrilling figth - spiced up by the fact that this was my first "meaningful" complete FA-Off fight outside the training missions.

What did I learn? Nothing helpful, I am afraid and more about me and always FA-Off than about the Sidewinder.
- I learned that I never would have survived the fight with fixed weapons; I am a too bad pilot.
- On the other hand I learned that figthing with FA-Off is way easier than docking. ;)
- And I learned that I missed something I never would have expected: The constant toggeling between FA-On and -Off during a fight is actually really fun and dynamic and I don't know, whether or not I am willing to limit myself to always FA-Off, as it was my plan.

Anyway. My conclusion? It is definitely doable. I think, you will have quite some fun with your challenge, Zilian! Just stay away from those Anacondas... :)
 
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Maybe you should work for the Utopians for a while. If fixed MCs are the only weapons you have, their Enforcers are more powerful than run of the mill fixed MCs.

Also, go for Class 2 hull reinforcement and class 1 interdictor ;)
 
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+1 for the Enforcer Cannon if you're running fixed size one MCs anyway.

I jumped in my Sidey last night for a hoon. I run rails in it btu I never really intend to get into any major scraps. Flew down to a local moon and went for a drive in the SRV then jumped back into the Sidey for take-off.

The cool part for me is that I have an Oculus Rift DK2 and after spending time in bigger ships, jumping back into the Sidewinder cockpit feels strangely satisfying, it's cozy but not cramped, has a great 'sun roof' for your viewing pleasure and is nippy and fun to fly.

Everyone should climb back into their Sidewinder every once and a while.
 
Ah the Sidey. Still has a special place in my heart. I needed to see this thread. I've been so busy grinding Imperial rep to get the Cutter lately it's taking some of the joy of playing away. I think I'm gonna go pick up the White Hammer and cause some trouble for awhile tonight.

This is my current build. She's not my only Sidey though. I have a Railgun build as well.
http://coriolis.io/outfit/sidewinde...00n3rv62j00.AwRj4yg=.Aw1-EA==?bn=White Hammer
 
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I don't mind the sidewinder, other than the fact that it looks like a piece of Chex cereal. I just wish there was a version with one small hardpoint on top and one medium hardpoint on the bottom. The two small hardpoints just don't hit hard enough considering it's hull and shield weakness. I like the idea of a small maneuverable ship with a powerful weapon, but the sidewinder isn't it.
 
Last time I took a sidey out was the last bounty hunting CG, I'd bought a nice black and blue paint for it in the sale and wanted to christen it. I had two pulses on it and took it into a hi res, bagged a 300k bounty from a deadly FDL amongst others. Awesome little ship.
 
… If you have already done this please post your build and share your experiences, explaining why you picked that build and what you learned from it.

I used a Sidewinder for about 2 weeks recently. The build was not very different from yours - I had a standard 2A shield and railguns or burst lasers and the rest of the modules where hull reinforcement or cargo racks, depending on what I needed.

Like you mentioned the advantage of the Sidewinder is it's size and agility. In combat avoiding getting hit is important, but against NPCs not that problematic - having a lot of hull hit points helps and the tiny shield recharges very fast.
Main problem in combat are the small sized weapons that are only effective against other small ships and get a damage reduction if used against medium or big sized hull. Anything the size of an Asp or bigger takes ages to kill even if it just sits there motionless.

In a RES it's fun to use. Using the asteroids as cover, trying to not deal to much damage to get the "aggro" of an Anaconda is fun.
NPCs with turrets are simply unfair ;)
I got interdicted from NPCs, but most of the time I could win the interdiction. 2 or 3 times I had impossible interdictions and survived all encounters. I think a Deadly Vulture simply jumped away after I managed to deal enough damage with my rails. I had to run away from a FDS and an other big ship - don't remember.

I was in LHS 3447 for the CG and I was surprised that no CMDR interdicted me. Don't know the reason, maybe because other targets where available or I simply had luck. Maybe a non-noob CMDR in a Sidewinder simply looks unsuspicious and unimportant.

Overall my experience was very similar to the other ships I use. The only difference being the amount of credits I earned and size of NPC ships I wanted to fight.

The interesting part was, that I made much more credits relative to the cost of the ship I used (a very good return of investment). Some of this will probably change with 2.1 and the removal of the rank requirement for the better paying missions.

Conclusion: The sidewinder is an endgame ship. I can do everything with the Sidewinder I can do with the Anaconda (ok, almost everything). It's just not as effective as other ships.


BTW: If you want a real combat challenge try the Keelback with fixed MCs (and don't fly backwards).
 
i am planning on going back to basics myself, and playing in the ships i skipped out on, or did not exist 1st time around.

my starter ship, wont be a sidewinder, but an imperial eagle.

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WHY A SIDEWINDER?

Well any ship above a sidewinder starts to become just easy enough that winning is almost a forgone conclusion. ED spawns ships based on the class of ship that you're flying. Some ships are at the top, some are in the middle, and some are at the bottom of their class. Apart from the Hauler, the Sidewinder is at the rock bottom of its class, and this means that any fight you encounter will be epic by definition..

Are you sure? because in my python i keep getting interdicted by eagles and other such suicide ships. it is mighty annoying!. I WISH ships used their intelligence a bit like you say, but it is not what i have experienced.
 
I don't mind the sidewinder, other than the fact that it looks like a piece of Chex cereal. I just wish there was a version with one small hardpoint on top and one medium hardpoint on the bottom. The two small hardpoints just don't hit hard enough considering it's hull and shield weakness. I like the idea of a small maneuverable ship with a powerful weapon, but the sidewinder isn't it.


The ship you are describing is basically the standard Eagle mk II. ;). 2 C1 hardpoints is basically ~1 C2.


Loving the enthusiastic replies so far.. I've learned a few tricks just by reading these (thank you very much!) and learning new things about ED and honing new skill sets is what keeps me going :)

I signed up with Antal since I like MCs so much, the enforcer cannon seems a natural fit. So far PP is quite a challenge. Took me a while just to knock out 330 merits. But those were the most thrilling 330 merits I've ever earned.

@ Mad Mike. Actually, I am no longer certain that ED spawns system ships based on ship class. I think they may have altered the spawn mechanism in Horizons. In any case, it was always more of a spawn ceiling than a spawn floor. But last night, I encountered many large and medium ships while undermining. I am going to check signal sources to see if they follow (what I thought was) the old spawn algorithm. Maybe player combat rank plays more of a role now?
 
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