General / Off-Topic A silent gaming pc

[WeComeInPeace]

Howdy Earthlings

Already known method, but with my 2 cents added:

Some time ago, I bought a new gaming pc. I was lucky and found an RTX 3070 at MSRP and because I often use the PC for other things than gaming, I also got a 16 core Ryzen 3950x. I didn't want to mess around with water cooling, so the CPU was cooled by a single fan 120 mm Noctua tower cooler. All that was stuffed into a cheap case with dual 200 mm fans.

The pc was running pretty hot, but I expected that. It was stable and the fans tried to do their best. Recently, I changed the case fans to get better (more) airflow (and more RGB!), and being slightly nerdy, I started messing with clock frequencies, voltages and different fan curves.

First I tried to overclock everything. Overclocking the CPU with the "tiny" Noctua air cooler actually gave me 8% more performance in Cinebench R23, but not so much in Time Spy. Furthermore the fans went from decently quiet to sounding like a vacuum cleaner. I noticed the small increase in performance compared to the giant increase in fan noise, and wondered if I could go slightly the other way from my "baseline", and achieve less noise for a relatively small performance loss.

I read about "underclocking", but instead I decided to allow the pc to run at a mildly higher temperatures. That worked! Now, my pc uses one fan (out of 10) when idle or just watching a 4K Youtube video. It has become so quiet that it's unnoticeable. When I stress the PC (100% GPU and 100% CPU) all fans run at roughly 1000 rpm, which is noticable but only if you concentrate. Temperatures max out at 81 deg C for the CPU and 65 deg C for the GPU. Both idle at around 50 deg C. All well within the safe limits.

Performance wise, I am where I started. Both CPU and GPU perform as well as they did before changing the fan curves. I get ~23.100 in Cinebench R23 and ~13.600 in Time Spy, so the main difference now is that my pc is very quiet. On top of that it uses way less energy than when OC'ed.

"We all strive for the best possible gaming experience", and not having a lot of fan noise makes the experience a lot nicer. I know most people will say that performance as king, but if you have a decent performance already, I can highly recommend trying to minimize the noise.

7

 

[Morbad]

I know most people will say that performance as king

I'm not so sure about that. Everyone has different goals and tolerances that need to be balanced against each other. How one does this is where there is room for optimization.

For example, your asethetic preference for RGB is likely keeping you from using fans with more optimal airflow vs. noise profiles...there are some decent RGB fans in this regard, but the very best performing fans at any given noise level and budget all lack RGB variants, to the best of my knowledge. Not a problem as long as the trade off is worthwhile to you.

Fan curves to keep idle volume down definitely help and idle temps are mostly meaningless, so there is little point on having fans ramp up too early.

What case are you using and how do your have your fans laid out?

 

[Stealthie]

I'm not so sure about that. Everyone has different goals and tolerances that need to be balanced against each other. How one does this is where there is room for optimization.

This.

Personally, I'd say reliability is king, with performance coming in some way behind.

When I'm playing ED my CPU is usually registering ~5% activity.
Is it going to be worth, potentially, sacrificing reliability and increasing noise to reduce that to ~3% and, possibily, add a handful of frames/second?

It's been about a decade since I seriously dabbled with overclocking but I came to the conclusion that if a PC is struggling to run some software then overclocking isn't going to be enough to make it run comfortably and reliably.

Incidentally, whenever I've used overclocked PCs, it's always led to recurring problems with the PSU, which suffer as a result of the heat and need to supply more power - which, again, causes reliability problems.

 

[WeComeInPeace]

I'm not so sure about that. Everyone has different goals and tolerances that need to be balanced against each other. How one does this is where there is room for optimization.

For example, your asethetic preference for RGB is likely keeping you from using fans with more optimal airflow vs. noise profiles...there are some decent RGB fans in this regard, but the very best performing fans at any given noise level and budget all lack RGB variants, to the best of my knowledge. Not a problem as long as the trade off is worthwhile to you.

Fan curves to keep idle volume down definitely help and idle temps are mostly meaningless, so there is little point on having fans ramp up too early.

What case are you using and how do your have your fans laid out?

The case I'm using is a "noname" case called Fourze Some Chinese case, that has been rebranded by the shop where I bought it.

Why did I buy that case? I started out gathering all the "important" parts like GPU, CPU, RAM and Mobo. Once I had those sorted, I just went for a cheap case, because I thought the case didn't matter, as long as it had room for the parts.

Now I have removed the fans the case came with, and put in 6x 120 mm fans (cheap RGB fans) instead. The case was designed for that, and the holes for the front mounted fans were designed for 120 mm, meaning that the 200 mm fans mostly tried to push air through a metal plate. My new config is three fans pulling air from the front, two on top and one in the back exhausting air. This should be relatively "balanced".

On the CPU I have a Noctua NH-U12s, which came with only one fan, but I bought another fan for it, and they run push/pull. The GPU is an Asus TUF with three fans (plenty), and the PSU is a cheap noname 750 W. That one will probably have to be upgraded, but for now it runs fine. It does not have an option to stop the fans completely, so for now, it's the most "noisy" thingy in the pc. Also the fan on the Mobo could be modded to run fanless, but that is in "custom water cooling territory" when it comes to practicality.

I started out playing with the fans on my own, using HWinfo while running different CPU and GPU loads. Then once I had an understanding of what was going on, I used Asus Fan Profiler (part of AI Suite) to create a silent profile. The software basically measure the characteristic of each fan, and then combine them into a profile. I must say that it gave a very decent result, but once the temp in the CPU started rising, it was a little too aggressive, so I manually fine tuned that. Running bloatware is an issue, but I've decided that the less than 1% CPU it uses is ok. On a smaller CPU I would prioritize differently.

Regarding RGB: It does not make the pc run any better, but it does give an option of changing the "looks" from time to time. The main difference between a "quality" fan like Noctua or Arctic and a cheaper fan seems to be noise at high rpm and the ability of running sub ~500 rpm. The cheap RGB fans I bought actually perform very well once they are "up and running". Once again, it is a question of aesthetics vs function. I really like the compromise I've reached. At full load all fans are still running 900-1000 rpm, and they are still quiet. They start getting noisy above 1300 rpm, but they never get up there even at full load.

Some fans are definitely better than other, with Noctua still sitting on the throne. However, apart from some really poor fans, most fans will perform reasonably well. You can optimize things like the gap between fan blades and the frame, and you can use different types of bearings etc. but once the fans are in the range they were designed for they perform pretty much the same. I tried changing the Noctua fans on the CPU cooler to the cheap RGB fans and measured temps at different loads. The main difference I found was that the Noctua fans were able to run down to 200 rpm, while the RGB fans weren't able to run below 600-700 rpm. The point though was that all fans were dead quiet when running at 700 rpm. At full load, both the Noctua fans and the RGB fans resulted in the CPU leveling out at 81 deg C after ~20-30 min, so I ended up leaving one RGB fan on the cooler, just because "RGB"

Edit: One final thing: The two fans at the top are mounted for "exhaust". Some argue that this is wrong (Gamers Nexus and others), and that the fan in front just removes cool air from the front fans, but in my current config, when the fans are running under load, both fans exhaust hot air. When at low load both fans stop, and then the front top fan acts as an air inlet, leading air through the CPU cooler and out the back. You can actually feel that using a hand above the case, but I haven't measured it (yet).

 

[amigacooke]

"We all strive for the best possible gaming experience", and not having a lot of fan noise makes the experience a lot nicer. I know most people will say that performance as king, but if you have a decent performance already, I can highly recommend trying to minimize the noise.

7

Get a Mac then

 

[WeComeInPeace]

Get a Mac then

I was a pc guy for many years, building my first "PC XT clone" back in the early 1980s. I came from Commodore, but chose pc instead of Amiga. In 2008 I switched to Mac Pro, and that machine served me exceptionally well for almost 10 years. Back then the hardware was decent, but the OS was awesome. Then Jobs decided to leave the building, and with him went the ingenuity. Nowadays I'm back to the PC, considering to go full blown nerdy and install Linux (again).

I still miss OSX, and even though I've learned to live with it, Win10 and M$ seems like a result of incompetence combined with lack of enthusiasm. Once I run software though, I hardly notice any difference.

I know the "RGB stuff" puts me in a category of "having no taste", but I'm fine with that. I like the way my pc looks (it glows in the dark like some mythic relic), and even though I loved the Mac Pro case I had, it was basically a design they stole from Braun. Just like the iPod etc. As we said back when I worked as "a creative" due to my (questionable) "good taste": There are three ways to get inspired: "Steal, steal or steal"

The only thing I really miss from the Mac is FCPx, but I don't do that much editing anymore, and when I do, Resolve does just fine. On the plus side, when it comes to gaming (mostly VR sims), the pc is king.

 

[Morbad]

The case was designed for that, and the holes for the front mounted fans were designed for 120 mm, meaning that the 200 mm fans mostly tried to push air through a metal plate.

I looked up some pictures of your case...stock front-fan config does seem rather senseless:

I started out playing with the fans on my own, using HWinfo while running different CPU and GPU loads. Then once I had an understanding of what was going on, I used Asus Fan Profiler (part of AI Suite) to create a silent profile. The software basically measure the characteristic of each fan, and then combine them into a profile. I must say that it gave a very decent result, but once the temp in the CPU started rising, it was a little too aggressive, so I manually fine tuned that. Running bloatware is an issue, but I've decided that the less than 1% CPU it uses is ok. On a smaller CPU I would prioritize differently.

Now that you have a profile you like, you should be able to ditch the software and do everything it does right in the board's UEFI fan control.

The main difference between a "quality" fan like Noctua or Arctic and a cheaper fan seems to be noise at high rpm and the ability of running sub ~500 rpm.

Beyond useful rpm range, better performing fans can will generally move more air and/or be quieter at a given rpm through out their entire rpm range. Even something as inexpensive as my Arctic P12s are quieter at 1200rpm than many of my older or more conventional 120mm fans are at 1000rpm, while moving more air at 1200rpm than they will at 1300-1500rpm. Balance, blade geometry, as well as PWM/motor noise and bearing noise all add up...a design that takes all these into account and has consistent manufacturing quality can remain amazingly silent at much higher rpm than many would expect, with air flow being the only major noise component.

The Arctic P12, Noctua's NF-A12x25, Nidec Gentle Typhoons, and more recently Phanteks T30-120 are some of the best in noise vs. air flow performance in 120mm fans, though all but the Arctics are fairly expensive and the Phanteks edges out almost everything in relative performance by virtue of it's greater (30mm vs. 25mm) thickness.

I haven't really looked at the RGB options, but I'm sure there are meaningful differences among them at this point.

Edit: One final thing: The two fans at the top are mounted for "exhaust". Some argue that this is wrong (Gamers Nexus and others), and that the fan in front just removes cool air from the front fans, but in my current config, when the fans are running under load, both fans exhaust hot air. When at low load both fans stop, and then the front top fan acts as an air inlet, leading air through the CPU cooler and out the back. You can actually feel that using a hand above the case, but I haven't measured it (yet).

Gamers Nexus does have a point here. The front top fan will definitely help exhaust hot air from most GPUs, but mixing in cool intake air with it won't do anything unless some other cooler is going to be ingesting that air...if it's going straight out the top of the case you're adding fan noise for no benefit. Proximity of the top front fan to the front top fan, and the pressure balance of the case as a whole, will decide whether I feel it's reasonable to keep both fans.

Still might be worth adding a bottom intake to feed the GPU more cool air and increase total flow through the case, as well as to maintain balanced or slightly positive pressure if you have intake filters.

 

[WeComeInPeace]

I looked up some pictures of your case...stock front-fan config does seem rather senseless:

Now that you have a profile you like, you should be able to ditch the software and do everything it does right in the board's UEFI fan control.



Beyond useful rpm range, better performing fans can will generally move more air and/or be quieter at a given rpm through out their entire rpm range. Even something as inexpensive as my Arctic P12s are quieter at 1200rpm than many of my older or more conventional 120mm fans are at 1000rpm, while moving more air at 1200rpm than they will at 1300-1500rpm. Balance, blade geometry, as well as PWM/motor noise and bearing noise all add up...a design that takes all these into account and has consistent manufacturing quality can remain amazingly silent at much higher rpm than many would expect, with air flow being the only major noise component.

The Arctic P12, Noctua's NF-A12x25, Nidec Gentle Typhoons, and more recently Phanteks T30-120 are some of the best in noise vs. air flow performance in 120mm fans, though all but the Arctics are fairly expensive and the Phanteks edges out almost everything in relative performance by virtue of it's greater (30mm vs. 25mm) thickness.

I haven't really looked at the RGB options, but I'm sure there are meaningful differences among them at this point.



Gamers Nexus does have a point here. The front top fan will definitely help exhaust hot air from most GPUs, but mixing in cool intake air with it won't do anything unless some other cooler is going to be ingesting that air...if it's going straight out the top of the case you're adding fan noise for no benefit. Proximity of the top front fan to the front top fan, and the pressure balance of the case as a whole, will decide whether I feel it's reasonable to keep both fans.

Still might be worth adding a bottom intake to feed the GPU more cool air and increase total flow through the case, as well as to maintain balanced or slightly positive pressure if you have intake filters.

Yup, that's the case I have. It was rather hopeless with the 200 mm fans. Apart from the case not designed for them, they were also mounted outside the case, thereby restricting airflow through the mesh on the side of the front cover. Finally the spacing between the glass on the front and the fans were very limited. Now I've mounted the fans inside the case, giving me much more available air from the front. That was something I learned from Gamers Nexus btw.

Regarding the top fans, I think it's one of those YMMV things. I don't have an option to measure airflow, except a primitive method, using a paper strip. That is being sucked towards the case when the fans are not running (except the CPU cooler). The airflow through the fan is not limited by the blades and it seems that most of the air going to the CPU cooler at idle comes through the (stopped) front top fan. When I fire up rendering etc. all fans are running, and the air exhausted from the front fan is "hot". My rationale being that the function of the fans is to remove heat from inside the case (a simple energy balance). At high loads, it might be that the rear top fan could exhaust more heat without the front top fan, but when at low loads, none of them run anyway.

Arctic fans are great, and much more bang for the buck than Noctua. Both are dirt cheap, but once you start buying many of them, the Arctic fans make a lot of sense. The only thing they miss is the vibration dampening rubber on the Noctua, but that is fixable. You are right that all 120 mm fans don't move the same amount of air at a given rpm, but two fans at the same rpm move twice as much as one fan (disregarding case airflow). Therefore in many cases (npi) you can run two fans at lower rpm and thereby lower noise. I have learned "a lot" about the logarithmic behavior of the Decibel scale fooling around with this

I don't think I have room for a bottom fan, but there's only one way to find out...

 

[Stealthie]

Can't recall what it's called but I recently(ish) posted a thread about my new PC build, including the name of the case, which was cheap and a pretty smart design.

Firstly, the mini-tower has a gap behind the platform where the mobo mounts, which means you can route all your cables behind the mobo, and out of the air-flow.
Secondly, and more evidently, it has a couple of (IIRC) 12cm fans underneath and another couple of 12cm fans on the top.
Cold air in the bottom, hot air out the top - as approved by my school physics teacher.
Also, it comes with a little "subframe" so you can mount a water-cooling radiator at the top instead, if you want to.

At first I wasn't keen on the idea of the air inlet being underneath, in case it hoovered up heaps of dust, but it's no worse than any other fan configuration in use.
While playing ED (with a combination of high/ultra settings) my fans barely ever spin-up past their "tickover" speed.
Playing Skyrim seems to work my PC harder... course, the 220-odd mod's I'm running might have something to do with that.

Also, also, the simplest way to test the air-flow through your PC is to spark up a ciggy and blow smoke at your PC to see what happens to it.

 

[WeComeInPeace]

Can't recall what it's called but I recently(ish) posted a thread about my new PC build, including the name of the case, which was cheap and a pretty smart design.

Firstly, the mini-tower has a gap behind the platform where the mobo mounts, which means you can route all your cables behind the mobo, and out of the air-flow.
Secondly, and more evidently, it has a couple of (IIRC) 12cm fans underneath and another couple of 12cm fans on the top.
Cold air in the bottom, hot air out the top - as approved by my school physics teacher.
Also, it comes with a little "subframe" so you can mount a water-cooling radiator at the top instead, if you want to.

At first I wasn't keen on the idea of the air inlet being underneath, in case it hoovered up heaps of dust, but it's no worse than any other fan configuration in use.
While playing ED (with a combination of high/ultra settings) my fans barely ever spin-up past their "tickover" speed.
Playing Skyrim seems to work my PC harder... course, the 220-odd mod's I'm running might have something to do with that.

Also, also, the simplest way to test the air-flow through your PC is to spark up a ciggy and blow smoke at your PC to see what happens to it.

I'm a smoker, but I only smoke outside

Speaking of dust: That is another feature of turning off the fans. They don't suck as much dust into the pc. I don't have space for a bottom fan, but once the fans start up, they move so much air that it completely overrules the warm air rising.

Next up will be changing the PSU. I got a good deal on a Corsair RM750x, and it stops the fan under light load. It might also be more healthy in the long run than the cheap PSU I have now. Only problem left is that my tinnitus has become more noticeable. No free lunch

 

[Morbad]

I'm a big fan of intake filters, especially easily removable/washable ones.

Cold air in the bottom, hot air out the top - as approved by my school physics teacher.

An unavoidable consideration for passive convection, but something largely irrelevant to forced air convection. Even the flow provided by very low speed fans completely dwarfs that from modest density changes due to air temp itself.