A simple solution for ram-ganking:

[JetsonRING]

I am seeing a lot of ram-ganking going on and I have a simple, do-able solution:

If any ship collides for any reason with another ship at any speed greater than 100 m/sec (75 m/sec?) inside a no-fire/no-speeding zone then the ramming/speeding ship's shields immediately drop to 0% and stay at 0% until H-jump.

In this way if someone attempts to ram-gank another player who is not speeding, the ganker can stay and fight . . . with 0% shields that will not come back up . . . or they can immediately hi-wake away. If the victim (or anyone else) chases the ganker down and interdicts him/her, the ganker's shields, because of the H-jump will have been restored and the fight can continue on more-or-less even terms.

It is so simple and elegant a solution that I do not think it will ever be implemented. o7

EDIT: It has been brought to my attention this solution does not account for shieldless hull-tanked ships. I welcome suggestions regarding this problem. o7

 

[MK Regular]

I might be wrong about this, but from my understanding of the problem, the issue is not ships that ram other ships and survive. Rather, the issue is gankers ramming other players that are that are speeding and killing themselves, getting the other player a bounty (and a hail of gunfire from the station defences).

Forgive me if I'm wrong here, but wouldn't what you are proposing result in the victim's shields dropping immediately after they are ganked, leaving them venerable to fire from the station?

 

[Komemiute]

It seems to me you're not quite a programmer.

How do you teach a machine to recognize the rammer and the rammee, so to speak?
A unique definition that fits all the situation.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

It seems to me you're not quite a programmer.

How do you teach a machine to recognize the rammer and the rammee, so to speak?
A unique definition that fits all the situation.

When the thread title says "simple solution" you can be sure that the suggestion is neither 'simple' nor a 'solution'.

 

[Komemiute]

When the thread title says "simple solution" you can be sure that the suggestion is neither 'simple' nor a 'solution'.

QFT & +rep
/thread

 

[Chrystoph]

I might be wrong about this, but from my understanding of the problem, the issue is not ships that ram other ships and survive. Rather, the issue is gankers ramming other players that are that are speeding and killing themselves, getting the other player a bounty (and a hail of gunfire from the station defences).

This

Optimally, the solution is to remove the penalty for the ram if both parties are speeding, since a "ram-gank" normally involves the suicide boosting into the speeding player.

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

This

Optimally, the solution is to remove the penalty for the ram if both parties are speeding, since a "ram-gank" normally involves the suicide boosting into the speeding player.

The problem with this, is that then it flips on its head, and large ships can boost and flatten smaller ships on purpose.

It's a tough problem to crack, so the best course of action is either, to simply block the offending pilots, or don't speed.

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead

 

[JetsonRING]

I might be wrong about this, but from my understanding of the problem, the issue is not ships that ram other ships and survive. Rather, the issue is gankers ramming other players that are that are speeding and killing themselves, getting the other player a bounty (and a hail of gunfire from the station defences).
Forgive me if I'm wrong here, but wouldn't what you are proposing result in the victim's shields dropping immediately after they are ganked, leaving them venerable to fire from the station?

That's a different gank, a station gank. I am talking about the idiots who are repeatedly ramming other ships inside the no-fire zone to bring down their victim's shields while they wait in queue to dock. The victim cannot fire back and the difference in shield drop between ganker and victim is waaay out of whack.

 

[space voyager]

I trust others on AI today not being able to differentiate between victim and ganker, but such a solution also seems very artificial. Not what actually could have happened.

 

[JetsonRING]

It seems to me you're not quite a programmer.
How do you teach a machine to recognize the rammer and the rammee, so to speak?
A unique definition that fits all the situation.

The solution I propose does not require the game to determine who is "at fault". Whoever is speeding in the no-fire zone at the time of impact, their shields drop to 0% until they hi-wake, the non-speeding ship's shields drop much less. If both ships are speeding, both ships shields drop to 0% until they hi-wake. This way, if it is just a "reckless" collision both CMDRs have the opportunity to simply hi-wake away without penalty or continue the fight outside the no-fire zone, the speeding ship(s) with no shields (until they hi-wake).

 

[JetsonRING]

I trust others on AI today not being able to differentiate between victim and ganker, but such a solution also seems very artificial. Not what actually could have happened.

Plausible? The game is about flying interstellar-capable ships that run on electricity generated by plasma gulping nuclear reactors. Plausible???

 

[Chrystoph]

The solution I propose does not require the game to determine who is "at fault". Whoever is speeding in the no-fire zone at the time of impact, their shields drop to 0% until they hi-wake, the non-speeding ship's shields drop much less. If both ships are speeding, both ships shields drop to 0% until they hi-wake. This way, if it is just a "reckless" collision both CMDRs have the opportunity to simply hi-wake away without penalty or continue the fight outside the no-fire zone, the speeding ship(s) with no shields (until they hi-wake).

You're missing a point. The rammer won't have shields in the first place. Their objective is to be destroyed so the station kills their victim without them getting blamed for the kill.

 

[Deleted member 115407]

Jmanis had another suggestion - one that I fail to find any kind of fault with:

Inside a no-fire zone...

1. If a speeding ship collides with another (clean ship) and causes shield damage, it receives a fine as normal
2. If a speeding ship collides with another (clean ship) and causes hull damage, it receives a bounty as per the current death mechanic

Like I said, I fail to see where this would wouldn't work as an effective ramming deterrent. Anyone?

 

[MK Regular]

That's a different gank, a station gank. I am talking about the idiots who are repeatedly ramming other ships inside the no-fire zone to bring down their victim's shields while they wait in queue to dock. The victim cannot fire back and the difference in shield drop between ganker and victim is waaay out of whack.

That makes sense. Although my point still stands, doing this would make station ganking MUCH easier.

 

[EvE4evah]

How does a player manage to be rammed by the same CMDR four, five times in a row, whilst watching their hull amount lazily drop to zero, is beyond me

 

[MK Regular]

Jmanis had another suggestion - one that I fail to find any kind of fault with:

Inside a no-fire zone...

1. If a speeding ship collides with another (clean ship) and causes shield damage, it receives a fine as normal
2. If a speeding ship collides with another (clean ship) and causes hull damage, it receives a bounty as per the current death mechanic

Like I said, I fail to see where this would wouldn't work as an effective ramming deterrent. Anyone?

Good idea, but this doesn't really address station ganking (i.e. A clean ship suicide rams into a speeding ship). Maybe have it so that no bounty is applied if the ship that received hull damage was also speeding?

 

[EvE4evah]

Good idea, but this doesn't really address station ganking (i.e. A clean ship suicide rams into a speeding ship). Maybe have it so that no bounty is applied if the ship that received hull damage was also speeding?

Solution to station ganking (suicide ramming) is very easy.
It's even announced here and there by our station greeters…
"kill your speed, not your credit balance"
"fly smart, fly safe, reduce speed inside the docking bay"

 

[JetsonRING]

Again . . . different situation. In the situation you are talking about (the station-gank) the remedy is well known. The victim's ship will not be destroyed if the CMDR is not speeding. In that situation all the victim will receive if not speeding is a warning from traffic control that "reckless maneuvers will not be tolerated".

I am talking about a ganker repeatedly ramming a CMDR that is either driving under the speed limit towards the mail-slot inside the no-fire zone or simply waiting, often in a queue, inside the no-fire zone waiting to dock, either because he or she is using the Automatic Docking Computer or, as an example the situation over at the Oracle Rescue Ship where CMDRs must queue up to get access to the single Large Landing Pad. Sitting still, in queue, minding their own business, some numbskull runs into them a couple of times, they do not even notice until the shields are going down and then one more tap blows up their ship and the victim cannot even shoot back because they are inside the no-fire zone. The disparity between the damage to the ganker's shields and the victims at the time of the collision is completely out of whack.

 

[JetsonRING]

Solution to station ganking (suicide ramming) is very easy.
It's even announced here and there by our station greeters…
"kill your speed, not your credit balance"
"fly smart, fly safe, reduce speed inside the docking bay"

Okay . . . say you're driving slowly toward the mail-slot, inside the no-fire zone, not speeding or, maybe you are just sitting still in a queue because you like to use the automatic docking computer and someone bumps/rams into your ship a couple of times. Your shields go down. The station and system security ignore it because nobody is shooting. What do you do? Shoot back? Can't shoot back or the station will blow up your ship. Run away? Can't run very far because your shields are down and one more tap blows up your ship. What do you do? You explode.

 

[EvE4evah]

Okay . . . say you're driving slowly toward the mail-slot, inside the no-fire zone, not speeding or, maybe you are just sitting still in a queue because you like to use the automatic docking computer and someone bumps/rams into your ship a couple of times. Your shields go down. The station and system security ignore it because nobody is shooting. What do you do? Shoot back? Can't shoot back or the station will blow up your ship. Run away? Can't run very far because your shields are down and one more tap blows up your ship. What do you do? You explode.

I do agree ramming needs punishment where due, I just see a huge immersion break with your "zero shields" suggestion. Plus, I was addressing the other kind of ramming, yes, so here's my response to your comment.

From the vids I've seen, guys take 3-7 rammings to go down. That's plenty and plenty of time to… get out of the way? Ever heard about vertical and lateral thrusters? Hell, even a Menu Log will do…

Of course it's only applicable if you're not shieldless/paper thin tank to begin with.