A simple solution to the whole PvP/PvE thing?

[Stealthie]

This just struck me while I was waiting to dock at farseers, where it was rush-hour and there was a mixture of NPCs and CMDRs...

I've heard people suggest that FDev get rid of the hollow squares on the HUD, so nobody'd be able to single-out CMDRs easily.
Just a slight modification to that idea really.

Why not make it so it's optional whether you display as a hollow square or a filled square?
It could be enabled with a simple check-box in the right-hand HUD, like report-crimes or a wing-beacon.

From a lore perspective, hollow squares might be classed as "pilot's federation transponders" and filled squares are "civilian transponders".

You want to let the world know you're a CMDR, with all that implies with regard to PvP?
Activate the hollow-square transponder and wait for another CMDR to find you.

Want to blend into the crowd?
Deactivate it so you just appear as a "civilian" ship.
You're still in Open so you're still a potential target for PvP but with the same level of risk as every other ship on the map.

You'd probably need to get rid of the "CMDR" prefix from in front of people's names, which rather negates the whole idea.
I'd suggest that the pilot's name is just invisible on an un-scanned ship.
Once you scan a ship the name is revealed, so somebody could, then, tell if you were a CMDR or not.


I'd like to think that'd be enough to get a lot of risk-averse players into Open and it'd satisfy the PvPers, knowing that a lot of other players are out there, even if they're a bit harder to find.

 

[DerDzvero]

I think this is a good idea, but honestly focusing on side effects, rather than the problem itself. For me the problem is a relatively easy to be fixed: pew pew should not be the only interaction Cmdrs can do between themselves. When that happens very few will oppose the open idea, pvp including.

- Arena: allow people to get own ships without rebuy penalty and mask it as community goal/event, or even better- throw us against bugs why not getting materials/data for engineering from it even?

- Open mode: give us more options to interact between ourselves.. like special mission/Operation that gets activated once required number of commanders are at a signal source or whatever. Like distress signal to neighborhood, initiated by the ED.. Or trading... just be creative-doesn't need to change core game concept, but IT HAS to change something. Well, if FDev care to change anything of course (I don't think they even read here something else than bug reports).. ;(

 

[Pyrobee]

Jsut a rehash of PvP flags. It won't work because those that like to whine about the chance of maybe having their ship destroyed by another player will still whine that they have the chance of getting blown up by another player despitet he fact that they don't play in open.

 

[Thetele]

And then you start to see post saying npcs cheat because one killed them in 10 seconds, but in reality it was heavily engineered pvp player. Its important to see who is player and who is npc for the harmless guys. Seeing hollow squares indigate that you need to take evasive actions and be ready to prevent player to start interdiction or open fire. If players were marked same as npc sneaking on less experienced or only pve player would be much easier. The griefers or experienced players don't need hollow squares to see who is player and whose not, you can tell it by looking at how they fly, their name (CMDR xxx) etc. and many pvp players have a lot of experience to fight silent running ships when radar doesn't help much. But inexperienced player won't notice that Corvette, fdl in cz that is about to lock and launch salvo of torps next to them or lining for interdiction in GG system or that sidewinder that is going to ram to death against your ship, without the hollow square on radar.

Seeing who is player is the second best tool the game offers you to avoid getting killed after the h-wake.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Imo the idea is not a bad one per se but the simple fact is all FD need to do is implement the features outlined in Kickstarter. Some PvPers like to call those not in open as cowards or whiners but the simple fact is either through stupidity or ignorance they bought a game promising certain features and the "whiners" are just asking for them to be honoured. It would be hubris for me to buy iracing and demand an offline arcade mode with full career and focus on ai cars and to tell the other players they are wrong for wanting it like it is. IF I bought iracing expecting such features it would be ME at fault not the game or the rest of the playerbase

 

[Robert Maynard]

I'd like to think that'd be enough to get a lot of risk-averse players into Open and it'd satisfy the PvPers, knowing that a lot of other players are out there, even if they're a bit harder to find.

I doubt it - as players seeking to avoid PvP would have no idea if any of the ships around them were players hiding the fact - and bandwidth monitoring (using CTRL-B) is a tell-tale for whether there are other players in the instance. Plus there'd be the nagging doubt that the "NPC" targeted in a CZ, etc. might be a player.

 

[Mohrgan]

Just leave open to the PvP guys, and get the PvE-Open the players deserve done. Save the time and effort on C&P and Notoriety, and just use that time to create the PvE-Open that's been called for almost since release. Get it over with.

 

[Taluss]

Just leave open to the PvP guys, and get the PvE-Open the players deserve done. Save the time and effort on C&P and Notoriety, and just use that time to create the PvE-Open that's been called for almost since release. Get it over with.

+1 ^ This is an amazingly simple issue - I am amazed Fdev haven't done this already.

 

[Jukelo]

It's an idea that's been floated around and discussed occasionally and which I like (although not particulalry because of its anti-griefing potential), but there's of course a number of issues with it.

Yes it would marginally make 'griefing' harder, in that targets would be a bit more difficult to find, but the main aspect of that difficulty would come from just not knowing when there is and when there isn't another player in the vicinity, a difficulty which can be easily worked around by displaying the network traffic meter in the game. If you know, by observing network activity (and just removing that tool from the game wont work, it's something you can see from the Windows performance monitor as well, and you can be certain there will be tools made to overlay that information on the screen) that there is a player near you, it's going to then be easy to just scan the nearby targets. I like the idea of allowing players to blend in, but the ability to observe network traffic to single out players makes stealth a difficult concept to integrate here. Funny thin is it would have been doable without P2P.

Now the more difficult issue from Frontier's perspective I think, is simply the reason they went with easy differenciation of players and NPCs and the reason they advertised their game as an MMO: they want social play, they want players to interact and easily meet others, something the hollow icons help with. Sure the icons don't do a terribly efficient job as the main problem is players have no incentive to divert from their solo routine to engage in social play, even cooperative, when they meet another player. And there could be more effective ways of pushing players together (they've made another attempt at that with random galaxy-wide multicrew queuing), but still this shows what the fundamental problem here: when you want players to engage with other players, you can't really make it harder for players to find other players.

 

[Cmdr Eran Mintor]

Mmm no. Its cool right now cuz in beta every cmdr is a solid square till they deploy hardpoints, then theyre a hollow triangle. Its a bug so dont get excited, but I dont see this suggestion really offering much. The idea of a pvp flag really bothers me. If youre in open, its open hunting season. There shouldnt be a quasi open pve only mode

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

…
I've heard people suggest that FDev get rid of the hollow squares on the HUD, so nobody'd be able to single-out CMDRs easily.
Just a slight modification to that idea really.

Why not make it so it's optional whether you display as a hollow square or a filled square?
…
Want to blend into the crowd?
Deactivate it so you just appear as a "civilian" ship.
…

Not being able to differentiate quickly between NPC and player increases the risk/difficulty for the non-aggressive player while making it easier for the attacking player.

The attacking player just needs to find out if the locked target is a player or not. The non-aggressive player needs to check every single contact if it is a player or an NPC.

It would have exact the opposite effect of what you want.

 

[concentric]

Its important to see who is player and who is npc for the harmless guys. Seeing hollow squares indigate that you need to take evasive actions and be ready to prevent player to start interdiction or open fire. If players were marked same as npc sneaking on less experienced or only pve player would be much easier. The griefers or experienced players don't need hollow squares to see who is player and whose not, you can tell it by looking at how they fly, their name (CMDR xxx) etc. and many pvp players have a lot of experience to fight silent running ships when radar doesn't help much. But inexperienced player won't notice that Corvette, fdl in cz that is about to lock and launch salvo of torps next to them or lining for interdiction in GG system or that sidewinder that is going to ram to death against your ship, without the hollow square on radar.

Not being able to differentiate quickly between NPC and player increases the risk/difficulty for the non-aggressive player while making it easier for the attacking player.
The attacking player just needs to find out if the locked target is a player or not. The non-aggressive player needs to check every single contact if it is a player or an NPC.
It would have exact the opposite effect of what you want.

Exactly, don't touch the hollow squares!

 

[Imo]

remove target disruption, chaff and silent running completely. Hit or miss will then be in the pilots hands again. No excuses anymore "fit fixed weapons, stupid guy! turn off gimballs, noob! dont play open if you can't handle it! silly billy!" >.<