A sober opinion of the current state of VR for Elite Dangerous

[cptwhite]

I guess I need to preface this with the acknowledgement I haven't tried ED with either the Vive or Rift. That being said I have used a DK2, and home brew solutions using my Homido HMD, Trinus VR and Moonlight apps, and the ED Tracker Pro for 3 axis head tracking moment. I tried this set-up with both my Nexus 5 (10ms latency, 1080p throughout the pipe Game > Streaming > Display on phone) and also my Galaxy S7 (14ms latency, 1440p screen with resolution of 1440p game > 4k streaming > 1440p phone and also 1080p game > 1080p streaming > 1440p phone)

Obviously the 1440p/4k setup isn't ideal but it gives you a flavour of image quality over 1080p.

I will say that my PC is wired to my router (Virgin Hub 3.0) and that my router is located approximately 1.5m away from my phone during use - so it can pull bandwidth in excess of 80Mbps (streaming for 4k @ 60fps is suggested to use 60Mbps in the moonlight app for reference). So there's no bandwidth or latency issues in terms of ability to physically transmit the data through the set-up.

From my experience what I can say is that both phones provided much less screen door effect than the DK2. I was pleasantly surprised by both with regards to this.

I'd be interested to try a Rift, but not £400 interested, as I believe the experience will still not live up to my expectations, as I feel there's still inherent problems that need addressing:

Resolution (and SDE):
Obviously this is the big one for most. Yes, the game is playable at 1920x1200 (vive and rift) or 1920x1080 (most common for home brew HMD). But for me it isn't really there yet. It doesn't even meet what I would consider my minimum standards for clarity. Yes the feeling of scale you get from VR is superb, immersion has definitely been achieved. Clarity of vision? Not so much. This impacts on my second point:

Field of view:
Due to the reduced effective resolution when using VR it seems the designers have had to reduce the FOV when playing. This is needed to make text legible when looking around the cockpit. This is a massive issue for me as what is immediately presented to me on a desktop monitor now requires physically turning my head to bring that information into focus (and subsequently removing all other elements of the UI from my field of view). It feels like tunnel vision and contray to the benefits VR gives to physical spacial awareness in the game (which is great) this reduced FOV massively swings the pendulum in the opposite direction in terms of benefit to the player. This is my current major issue with VR in ED, and it's not a VR issue per-say but rather how it's been implemented in the game.

Set-up complexity:
Admittedly this is compounded by the home brew VR set-up I use, but even with IP addresses and in-app settings configured, gamestream set-up and paired there's a bunch of steps to get the game working in VR:

Load Trinus VR mobile app and desktop app
Switch in-game resolution and quality settings, set side-by-side mode (Dr Kaii saves the game with desktop app)
Switch mouse look settings / free head movement settings (I use mouse and keyboard)
Drop Re-shade config games into game folder
Plug in ED Tracker Pro, calibrate, and fix to HMD (blu tak )
Insert phone in HMD (turn on Do Not Disturb, make sure you don't touch ANY buttons)
Plug headphone into phone
Make sure no drinks are within knocking over distance)
Place ensemble of HMD/Phone/ED Tracker Pro/Headphones onto head (remove glasses first)
Load game

Putting aside other issues like chromatic abberation with with lenses, consistent FPS, colour banding, god rays, jaggies, poor controls for galaxy map and other various menu control issues. I feel these 3 main issues are the reason I don't play Elite in VR at present.

I want to play in VR, but it's just not reaching my expectations as things stand. I know there will be a lot of people in this forum who disagree with me, some of which need to justify the £1000 they've dropped on a VR set-up and appropriately powered GPU to feed it properly, but I feel for new-comers to VR in ED they need to be made aware of the limitations, and take all the "OMG ITS AWESOME!!!11" threads with a pinch of salt.

VR still has a way to go, IMO. For those interested, here's the comparison between 1080p and 1440p video quality in the set-ups I described above. Bear in mind this is a 256 colour GIF, processed from a jpg. However I have the originals from the screen capture direct from the video feed sent to my phone and can attest the images are very accurate to the original quality and offer a degree of confidence this is what you can expect in the jump from 1080p to 1440p:

https://media.giphy.com/media/26zyXvyLr4lmGevQY/source.gif

 

[BaronVonDoon]

I had a similar experience when I went food shopping yesterday. I said 'I'm not going to buy Heinz baked beans, because I tried some value baked beans, and i felt they weren't up to the standard of bean texture and tomato sauce richness that I'd like'. I have now denied myself all baked beans, because I experimented with value beans. The same line of thinking can be applied to your post. You can't comment on the current state of VR, when you haven't tried the two flagship devices available.. instead opting for a phone.

 

[Jonathan E]

Well Said.

 

[cptwhite]

I can comment on resolution and field of view, which will be the same on all platforms and are my two main issues. In fact, my solution has BETTER resolution than the Vive and Rift, and it's still not good enough. I take your point and I acknowledged that in the first line of my post, but my points are entirely valid and poo poo ing them with some poor analogy isn't tackling them with a reasoned opinion.

 

[VR andysonofbob]

I have been gaming for well over 30 years now. Nothing has blown me away as much as VR.
It will get better, sure, but I think VR is here, now.

 

[BaronVonDoon]

I can comment on resolution and field of view, which will be the same on all platforms and are my two main issues. In fact, my solution has BETTER resolution than the Vive and Rift, and it's still not good enough. I take your point and I acknowledged that in the first line of my post, but my points are entirely valid and poo poo ing them with some poor analogy isn't tackling them with a reasoned opinion.

on the contrary, my analogy was spot on, and amusing, as I actually love beans. But your argument goes out of the window, as you just stated you've never tried the Rift or the Vive, the DK2 doesn't count, as that leaps and bounds behind the CV1. When set up correctly, and pixel density and Super sampling are spot on, the image quality is fine. Could it be better? Sure, but we are kind of still limited by GPU power to have crazy resolutions in VR at the moment.

So my point still stands, you can't comment on something you havent tried, and a phone, just doesn't compare, not even close.

 

[Munial]

A sober opinion of the current state of VR for Elite Dangerous...

...I haven't tried ED with either the Vive or Rift.

oh.

 

[777Driver]

This thread gave me a little chuckle, thanks.

 

[Wood67]

@cptwhite: I think you have some valid points there if we are looking only at pure resolution. But taken as a whole, the VR experience simply blows anything else out of the water. I was demoing ED to my dad over the weekend, starting with 2D to show him the controls. Beautiful crisp graphics....and nowhere near as good. Slip on the Rift, drop the resolution, and (quite likely the brain fills in missing detail here) and it made his jaw drop.

FOV doesn't bother me, and I find the head movement very natural. When I was dog fighting the constant movements are very similar to those of fighter pilots.

It will of course be even better with higher resolution and increased FOV, but as others have said it's here, now, and pretty darn good even if you don't like baked beans.

 

[cptwhite]

This thread was made to try and temper the expectations and counteract all the overly praising posts made by Rift and Vive owners. VR in Elite has low resolution and gives a narrow field of view compared to a desktop screen. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and has their own expectations and these are mine.

For the record I love baked beans. I had hoped to open an honest conversation on the topic, but it seems people are more interested in shooting me down in flames for giving an opinion based on my own experience. I can assure you I highly doubt trying a consumer version of either the Vive or Rift would sway my opinion, as the major hurdles to Elite in VR would still stand - namely resoltion, FOV and set-up complexity. I'd also add to that comfort for prolonged periods (it's hot and sweaty with all that gear on your head)

 

[[VR] Frank_G]

I was used to play Elite on a 55" LED TV in Ultra settings... VR (both in Rift and Vive) made that look like kids play. The biggest game changer for me, since i started computer gaming, back in 1981... I waved goodbye to monitor gaming. Resolution is not enough to use it at work, but the next generation will pass that hurdle soon.

 

[BaronVonDoon]

This thread was made to try and temper the expectations and counteract all the overly praising posts made by Rift and Vive owners. VR in Elite has low resolution and gives a narrow field of view compared to a desktop screen. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and has their own expectations and these are mine.

For the record I love baked beans. I had hoped to open an honest conversation on the topic, but it seems people are more interested in shooting me down in flames for giving an opinion based on my own experience. I can assure you I highly doubt trying a consumer version of either the Vive or Rift would sway my opinion, as the major hurdles to Elite in VR would still stand - namely resoltion, FOV and set-up complexity. I'd also add to that comfort for prolonged periods (it's hot and sweaty with all that gear on your head)

For the record, I'm happy to have an honest conversation about the subject, however, you started from a point on which you have no experience of by your own admission. The VR you have tried is not comparable to a Rift or a Vive.. period.

But I'll answer the points you have made here. FOV, 110 degrees is fine, on a rift/Vive, the tracking is accurate enough for this not to be an issue, a tiny turn of the head lets you see everything, it's less bothersome in Elite and say, driving games, where you feel like you're wearing a helmet anyway. Resolution is limited by current technology, but as I said in a previous post, when set up correctly, it's not a problem, and after sustained play, it's something you adjust too, and doesn't detract from the immersion of being there. Set up complexity is also not an issue, ( I have a CV1) a couple of hours to set up, fine tune etc, and you're good to go, I haven't had to fiddle with mine for months. I can't comment on Vive prolonged comfort, as I only tried one briefly, but the Rift is super comfy, and I can play Elite for many hours with no problems, as can many others. Hope that helps.

 

[A D]

I don't know very much about optics (and I could be wrong), but the limited FOV in VR has nothing to do with the game. Angular resolution describes pixel density over a curved surface. The wider the FOV the lower the pixel density i.e. the pixels are stretched over a greater curvature resulting in noticeable gaps between them. This is why VR has a limited FOV (90 to 110 degrees). It is also the reason why a higher resolution image in VR can actually be less appealing - the gaps between the pixels then become more noticeable, not less. Its a VR optics problem that has not been solved as yet.

That being said, VR is first gen' and will doubtless improve as it becomes more popular. As it stands though, ED is an excellent game in VR and I'm more than happy to trade the buttery smooth resolutions you get on a 2D monitor (where pixel density is uniform over a flat surface) for the scale and immersion that VR provides.

 

[cptwhite]

In reply to BaronVondDoon

Maybe you could have posted that originally, instead of some witty analogy to baked beans. Frankly I expected this response, I'm preaching the the converted of course.

I don't mind a joke, but implying my opinion is entirely invalid after experimenting with VR set-ups for ~ 18 months is a little aggravating. My (admittedly amateur) set-up process I posted online has been viewed 8500 times and helped many set-up their own VR experiences.

As I've already said, a lot of this I suspect is people justifying their purchase decisions, I'm glad I didn't bother spending £500+ to do VR right now. Resolution isn't there for me, even on a phone with a 1440p screen and it won't be on the current Vive and Rift options, it's simply crushing numbers.

I've given my opinion, so let's just agree that we have differing expectations. Try and be a little more respectful next time?

 

[Cliché]

...

Field of view:
Due to the reduced effective resolution when using VR it seems the designers have had to reduce the FOV when playing. This is needed to make text legible when looking around the cockpit. This is a massive issue for me as what is immediately presented to me on a desktop monitor now requires physically turning my head to bring that information into focus (and subsequently removing all other elements of the UI from my field of view). It feels like tunnel vision and contray to the benefits VR gives to physical spacial awareness in the game (which is great) this reduced FOV massively swings the pendulum in the opposite direction in terms of benefit to the player. This is my current major issue with VR in ED, and it's not a VR issue per-say but rather how it's been implemented in the game.

...

You know, anybody that needs to use glasses for anything but near distance reading needs to look at what they want to see. And sure, if you have good eyesight you can glance around with just your eyes, but if you really want to read that fine text or symbols, you really need to look at them. Personally, I find it more uncomfortable to use my eyes to try and read things 20-30 degrees off center than to just turn my head slightly. What's more of a problem for me is that the reduced FOV limits your peripheral vision like a scuba mask, and I'd rather see that fixed before higher resolution.

And I don't need to justify anything. VR is the simply greatest bang for the buck I've ever experienced, and although I'm a little P.O.'d that it's half what I spent a year ago, I still don't regret the purchase one bit.

To me it sounds like your gripe is that if EGA was the current video standard and some people were paying to get VGA, but you thought VGA wasn't good enough and you heard about SVGA, you'd rather stick to EGA for a couple more years rather than take the VGA mid upgrade. That's your choice and your loss.

 

[BaronVonDoon]

In reply to BaronVondDoon

Maybe you could have posted that originally, instead of some witty analogy to baked beans. Frankly I expected this response, I'm preaching the the converted of course.

I don't mind a joke, but implying my opinion is entirely invalid after experimenting with VR set-ups for ~ 18 months is a little aggravating. My (admittedly amateur) set-up process I posted online has been viewed 8500 times and helped many set-up their own VR experiences.

As I've already said, a lot of this I suspect is people justifying their purchase decisions, I'm glad I didn't bother spending £500+ to do VR right now. Resolution isn't there for me, even on a phone with a 1440p screen and it won't be on the current Vive and Rift options, it's simply crushing numbers.

I've given my opinion, so let's just agree that we have differing expectations. Try and be a little more respectful next time?

You're not preaching to the converted, you're preaching to owners, who have a wealth of experience and informed opinions about something they already own. My initial reply, was indeed sarcastic, because you assumed to knowing everything about VR and it's future, because you tried it on a phone, and not the flagship devices that properly show the technology off.

I think most people here will agree, they don't need to overly glorify VR to justify their purchase. Elite on a Rift or a Vive is nothing short of spectacular, it doesn't stop there either, there are many great VR titles, that make ownership of either headset easily justifiable.

 

[Lordxenu]

You also need to be sure you're looking at 1440p per eye not 1440p overall.

I played around with home made VR for a while then got a Razer HDK2 (which is the same resolution at the Vive / CV1) and have to say if you're suggesting VR isn't great you've done it wrong.

Resolution and SDE become pretty irrelevant after 30 seconds in true VR.

The phone setup is good but no where near the real thing for starters you need to consider how good your lenses are and how well they suit your phone. A rift / vive has lenses designed for the screen placement and resolution. The homido has lenses designed to do a decent job on any screen. You also slide your phone in and out so the screen won't be in exactly the same place and which the screen being inches from your eyes that can matter.

Set up complexity is a pretty non nonsensical point to make since you don't do any of that (apart from move drinks) with the real thing.

You should maybe have set your post as "why I don't play my homebrew VR setup" as your points don't really represent the real thing.

 

[Para Handy]

I would like to point out that I think the resolution and off-centre sharpness are indeed very off-putting. I like the "presence" and sense of scale that ED has in my Rift but I really miss the sharpness and detail of the 1440 resolution in my monitor. (Yes I knew it would be lower resolution when I bought it so I am not whining that it is.) The central "sweet spot" (well area really) is my biggest bugbear.

It is no good saying that you need to move your head to read things outside VR - that just isn't true, vast sums have been spent in the real world on making vital instrumentation easily interpreted by fast scanning. Even something as uncomplicated as a private aircraft has a particular instrument layout and design to allow the pilot to monitor essentials without having to move their head from the major point of importance - the windscreen.

I honestly wish that the clarity in E D matched that in other VR titles, maybe as I learn how and what to tweak I will bring E D to a more pleasant level but the current technology means that people coming from resolutions better than 1080 are going to notice the degradation.

Yes E D in VR is great, in some respects amazing, but it really isn't as all-embracingly dogs-danglies wonderful as people make out. Rave about it by all means but don't overlook it's limitations like a redneck defending the second amendment.

So I think the OP's remark about '... all the "OMG ITS AWESOME!!!11" threads ...' has a relevance and I think people should be more honest about things.

TL/DR:

P.S. I am not sending my Rift back - I like it, it is great, but I like my sharp visuals in E D so the Rift is more for other things and an occasional play in E D. If anyone is havering about buying-in at the £400 price, I can honestly say it is worth it - just be realistic in your expectations.

p.p.s - Just to clarify, that's an English "havering" not a Scottish "havering".

 

[rootsrat]

I have previously played ED in Vive on i5 4590 and ASUS 1080. On that kit I was able to up the resolution to 2.0 in SteamVR, 0.85 in game SS and 1.00 in game HMD SS. This was not perfect, but good enough for my eyes to be able to play comfortably.

I then upgraded my CPU to i7 4790K and now I can up the resolution to 2.0 in SteamVR, 1.00 in game SS and 1.00 in game HMD SS. This is in my opinion very clear, I have no problem with reading text - which was the biggest issue for me. Currently the only downside are ships that are quite far away. They are not very clear, but for me this is not a showstopper.

I honestly think that Elite in VR is AMAZING, but you need a very expensive kit to run it on the required level of details. And I am not trying to justify my purchase of Vive. I've been building my rig for over 2 years and it was not specifically for VR, I just wanted to have a very powerful gaming rig.

I can't comment on the Rift or fudged mobile VR (that's not really VR, is it. I mean... it's a mobile phone!), but for the Vive it's pretty much plug&play. Easy to use and with right settings it does look really clear.

Of course your view may be different if you need to spend £4k or whatever on a relevant PC, in addition to £800 Vive, but for me the experience is very good and while I agree it could be better - I honestly don't think there is any exaggeration in the "ZOMG THIS IS AMAZEBALLS!" threads, if it's coming from the people that have a right (very expensive, no question about that) set up at home.

I also think that VR at the current stage and iteration is a very personal experience. Some will be put off by various aspects, some will don't mind, some will pretend they don't mind to justify the purchase. I am definitely in the 2nd group

 

[Nagual]

Resolution (and SDE):

Having high expectations and not doing any research into these aspects will lead to disappointment. However, the brain is excellent at acclimatising and adapting to things, and very nicely 'fills in the blanks' so to speak. I don't find the resolution to be an issue at all with the vive (owned a whole 2 days ay this point) mind you have have SteamVR set at ss:2 with a renderTargetMultiplier set at 2.5.

The SDE is a bit of an annoyance, but really depends on the colour and intensity of whats being displayed. Again with time you stop noticing it.


Field of view:

I can read most of what's in my field of vision, things at the far edges no although I don't do that in real life trying to wrap my eyes around the back of my head so I'm okay with moving my head around. In fact I'm glad I have to, as it encourages me to just move about and stop thinking like I'm using a 2d monitor. This leads to almost forgetting you're not sitting at home..

I had to sort out my cables, so stood up and didn't take my headset off. I nearly fell down the steps on my 'conda


Set-up complexity:

Can't speak for the Rift. But the Vive was simplicity. Unpack everything from the box. Plug it all together. Stick the base stations somewhere. Download some stuff. 30 minutes all in all. That's including some 'faffing about' time.


Galaxy Map

I have to ask.. what in dear Gods name was FDev thinking? I honestly have no clue how to target anything using the Galaxy map. Or the System Map come to think of it.