A thread for the "fast travel" folks....

VR Jay Le Chardon

VR Jay Le Chardon
Let's open up by stating the cavaet that I'm vehemently opposed to the "decimate travel times / bring in intrasystem jumps because supercsruise is boring", mainly because I believe in maintaining the sense of scale and sensation fo flying a spaceship rather than spamming the jump button. However, I'm also an ardent supporter of that which is scientifically plausible - and here we have science supporting interplanetary highways:
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrXHw9Y_VQg


So armed with some science from the video above, can you create some enticing yet plausible alternatives to supercruise as the primary means of interplanetary travel?
 

VR Jay Le Chardon

VR Jay Le Chardon
The wormhole you'll be most familiar with is the one outside terak-nor, which jumped from alpha to gamma quadrants, of the galaxy... We're talking about stuff within the same system, so that would be a solid no to wormholes.

Next!

@Paul Eddington - I'm only joshing with you mate, laced with a bit of RP based on your "namesakes" character in DS9
 

Maolagin

M
[VR] Jay Le Chardon said:
Let's open up by stating the cavaet that I'm vehemently opposed to the "decimate travel times / bring in intrasystem jumps because supercsruise is boring", mainly because I believe in maintaining the sense of scale and sensation fo flying a spaceship rather than spamming the jump button. However, I'm also an ardent supporter of that which is scientifically plausible - and here we have science supporting interplanetary highways:
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrXHw9Y_VQg


So armed with some science from the video above, can you create some enticing yet plausible alternatives to supercruise as the primary means of interplanetary travel?
Click to expand...
Sure, I'd be delighted if FDev implemented full N-body Newtonian orbital mechanics. Then you too could cruise the Interplanetary Highway described in that video. Transit time from Earth to Mars is estimated at around 5000 years or so, but it sure is economical.
 

MadDogMurdock

MadDogMurdock
Ah, the good old Interplanetary Transport Network (ITN)
en.wikipedia.org

Interplanetary Transport Network - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

I’ve mentioned this any number of times as a way to improve SC, not replace it.

Given that the Frame-Shift Drive is fictional, we have to take what we know about it and build on that.
The only thing we know is that it is affected by gravitational wells.

Now using the ITN, which has its basis in the path of least energy use, we can create a similar mechanism for the FSD.
The flatter that spacetime is, the greater the acceleration of the FSD.
Similar to the ITN which is based on path changes at Lagrange points (areas of gravitational equilibrium), the interaction of gravity wells in a system creates a set of paths where the gravity wells intersect. Along the edges of these intersections, there are ridges and saddles where spacetime is flattish and the FSD acceleration could get a boost.
Using these paths would enable faster travel around the system, but these paths are non-linear.
Straying from the paths loses the boost, staying on the paths steadily increases acceleration.

Doesn’t need to be overly twitch based, just steady piloting using subtle visual cues and FSD noises, etc.

So not a replacement of SC, an enhancement to it.
 

Urbanski101

Urbanski101
Interesting...but would FD really change the fundamental travel mechanic in ED?

I'm not an advocate of micro jumping in system, I want to keep SC. I would however like to see nav beacons placed at secondary/tertiary stars within the bubble and be offered the option of jump in points. It would fit with the current travel mechanic and there could be legitimate lore reasons i.e. the system in question would like to boost it's economy, due to long SC times traders tend to avoid their system.

The caveat to this would be not every binary/trinary etc. system would get them and additional nav beacons would only be built for systems where the secondary/tertiary stars are more than 250k ls (about 10 mins SC) from the primary star. Of course the 'over 250k ls' seems reasonable to me but would be up for discussion.
 

Maolagin

M
Urbanski101 said:
Interesting...but would FD really change the fundamental travel mechanic in ED?

I'm not an advocate of micro jumping in system, I want to keep SC. I would however like to see nav beacons placed at secondary/tertiary stars within the bubble and be offered the option of jump in points. It would fit with the current travel mechanic and there could be legitimate lore reasons i.e. the system in question would like to boost it's economy, due to long SC times traders tend to avoid their system.

The caveat to this would be not every binary/trinary etc. system would get them and additional nav beacons would only be built for systems where the secondary/tertiary stars are more than 250k ls (about 10 mins SC) from the primary star. Of course the 'over 250k ls' seems reasonable to me but would be up for discussion.
Click to expand...
Lorewise, gradually adding navigation beacons probably would make the most sense. The current iteration of FSD-based hyperspace travel, where you lock onto and arrive at the most massive star in a system, has only been around for a few decades, and only appeared in civilian ships in 3297. Previous iterations of hyperdrive technology took days or longer to transit between systems, and ships returned to normal space in the distant outskirts of the destination system, so the difference in travel times for primary vs secondary stars was probably less significant. Now that it matters, you can well imagine that Sirius Corp and their competitors would see money to be made in providing a workaround.

FDev would probably also prefer that approach, as it would let them add the mechanic gradually on a human-guided, system-by-system basis, and wouldn't require any complex reworking of the overall FTL flight model.
 

tolm

tolm
Secondary “man made” gravity points as selectable “jump in” targets in systems - perhaps built by the player community using mini-CG style initiatives - would be an option to shorten the required supercruise distances in systems where the main star is not where most (or all) of the stations are situated without needing to mess with established laws of physics - at least so far as this established in Elite, that is!
 

varonica

varonica
tolm said:
Secondary “man made” gravity points as selectable “jump in” targets in systems - perhaps built by the player community using mini-CG style initiatives - would be an option to shorten the required supercruise distances in systems where the main star is not where most (or all) of the stations are situated without needing to mess with established laws of physics - at least so far as this established in Elite, that is!
Click to expand...

You mean just pile enough matter together until the mass of the object is greater than the mass of any other single object in the system, then that would become the primary entry point for the system and you would need to SC to all other locations. Just FYI, there is no artificial gravity in ED so the only way to do that would indeed be to build a new star, good luck with that!
 

Caydran

Caydran
So, all the OP really suggests is shorting the timing on the super-cruise load/wait screen for in system travel, or speeding up the distance traveled while in super-cruise.
 

Caydran

Caydran
We could inject different types of materials into the FSD for faster super-cruise speed in systems, just like we do for extended hyperspace jumps. For systems with gas giants, you could fuel scoop the hydrogen/ammonia for faster in system travel.
 

Danieros

D
What the SC does is already way faster than anything else that could be realistic at our current tech level. You already get to travel at multiple times the speed of light... even thousands of times, and I assume it's like an alcubierre drive - something from a speculative level of science.

Gravity slingshots wouldn't get anywhere close to c.
 
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tolm

tolm
varonica said:
You mean just pile enough matter together until the mass of the object is greater than the mass of any other single object in the system, then that would become the primary entry point for the system and you would need to SC to all other locations. Just FYI, there is no artificial gravity in ED so the only way to do that would indeed be to build a new star, good luck with that!
Click to expand...

Well, yes to an object with mass of some sort but not “replacing” the main star.

This could be subject to the invention of some “super dense” material - the opposite of whatever the Anaconda is made of, if you like.

Alternatively, if we assume the “default” behaviour is that the greatest mass-point is “locked on” by the FSD, what if something else of “some“ mass could broadcast a signal that could be used as an alternative “lock on” point: providing two entry points in the system, either of which could be selected when plotting a route with the default behaviour remaining as is today.
 

varonica

varonica
tolm said:
Well, yes to an object with mass of some sort but not “replacing” the main star.

This could be subject to the invention of some “super dense” material - the opposite of whatever the Anaconda is made of, if you like.

Alternatively, if we assume the “default” behaviour is that the greatest mass-point is “locked on” by the FSD, what if something else of “some“ mass could broadcast a signal that could be used as an alternative “lock on” point: providing two entry points in the system, either of which could be selected when plotting a route with the default behaviour remaining as is today.
Click to expand...

The FSD locks on to the object in the system with the most mass, that's usually, but not always, the main star. People have been complaining about the Anaconda's unrealistic mass ever since the game came out, I don't think you are going to be able to use that as an argument to create something even more preposterous. An object of some mass? How much? What defines the cut of point? Some arbitrary point that gives you easy access to whatever you want to do? And if the signal to lock on is a gravity waves how are you going to reproduce that signal without using something that creates gravity, such as a star sized mass?
 

tolm

tolm
varonica said:
The FSD locks on to the object in the system with the most mass, that's usually, but not always, the main star. People have been complaining about the Anaconda's unrealistic mass ever since the game came out, I don't think you are going to be able to use that as an argument to create something even more preposterous. An object of some mass? How much? What defines the cut of point? Some arbitrary point that gives you easy access to whatever you want to do? And if the signal to lock on is a gravity waves how are you going to reproduce that signal without using something that creates gravity, such as a star sized mass?
Click to expand...

Hey - I'm not fussed, just throwing out a suggestion that is at least as believable as anything else currently in the game. We can "emergency stop" from super-cruise FSD travel already and Thargoids can pull us out of system-to-system FSD travel so having that automated based on some "signal" from a beacon of sorts doesn't seem outside the realms of plausibility given the existing "rules" Elite has established. The reason I mention "some mass" is that I figure whatever it is has have some reasonable gravity signature for the FSD to even "see" it: so perhaps that beacon has to be placed on another planet or star in the system?

But whatever, the current state is fine with me. If I don't fancy a 300,000ls flight I simply take a different mission. :)
 

Ian Skippy

Ian Skippy
[VR] Jay Le Chardon said:
Let's open up by stating the cavaet that I'm vehemently opposed to the "decimate travel times / bring in intrasystem jumps because supercsruise is boring", mainly because I believe in maintaining the sense of scale and sensation fo flying a spaceship rather than spamming the jump button. However, I'm also an ardent supporter of that which is scientifically plausible - and here we have science supporting interplanetary highways:
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrXHw9Y_VQg


So armed with some science from the video above, can you create some enticing yet plausible alternatives to supercruise as the primary means of interplanetary travel?
Click to expand...

Ehm, mate, you do realise we can jump to stars 50LY away in this game? Proposing to also be able to jump to stars <.1LY away is not that shocking or 'unrealistic'.
 
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