A way to make smuggling a thing

[Doctor Axel]

So at the moment, there isn't really a reason to smuggle, since the black market drops the price of goods by so much.

Now, the lower price at the black market DOES make sense for goods that were ACQUIRED illegally, but are otherwise legal at that station - they'd have to be sold at a discount because somewhere along the line, their paperwork will have "I WAS STOLEN" written all over it.

However, wares that are considered contraband at a station/in a sector should have a MASSIVELY inflated price on the black market - this can be seen pretty much anywhere in real life when something is declared illegal. When the ONLY way you can acquire something is considered illegal, the ones selling it to you can ask pretty much whatever price they want.

TLDR: I it were up to me to fix smuggling, I would keep the black market exactly as is, with one additional layer of logic: if a ware is considered illegal at a station/in a sector, multiply its black market price by three or four times its usual price.

What do we think?

 

[lexandro]

Good points. I think contraband should be valued far higher than it currently is to make smuggling a real option. But if that were done I think bounties for smuggling need an increase to compensate. I mean it also gives me as a bounty hunter a good reason to pull "clean" ships form SC and check its cargo. Sure its an inconvenience to some who aint running illicit goods but its only a few seconds and they would be on their way again. But for smugglers it would add some spice to the gameplay if you know players are on the look out for smugglers.

Then clean traders would not be so jumpy when interdicted, and might even appreciate the fact there is added protection in the sector. Would make it better for pirates too, since some players would be more lax in response to interdictions and not notice a pirate coming. Adds more to the gameplay for Open imo.

 

[Hethwill_Khan]

Smuggling is trading in goods that are illegal in the destination system.

It doesn't mean there isn't a independent dealer that will buy them. There is but not everywhere.


Black market is for Illegally acquired stuff or simply if you want to dump stuff.

If you inflate the BM buyouts of legally acquired commodities balance will simply shift from normal trade to trade runs to the nearest BM given the profit margins.

 

[Cat_Astrophe]

FYI there are stations that show a "salvage" section on their commodity market. It has the rare paintings and whatnot, but I've yet to see it accept any "salvaged" items. If that becomes possible, then these systems will be very useful.

 

[Doctor Axel]

Smuggling is trading in goods that are illegal in the destination system.

It doesn't mean there isn't a independent dealer that will buy them. There is but not everywhere.


Black market is for Illegally acquired stuff or simply if you want to dump stuff.

If you inflate the BM buyouts of legally acquired commodities balance will simply shift from normal trade to trade runs to the nearest BM given the profit margins.

IMO, It SHOULD be tempting to deal in wares illegally for a higher profit than you'd get selling them legally. I agree with you that people would flock to it if it were too easy, and I think increasing the penalty for being caught smuggling would mitigate the issue - something to the effect of:

If you're caught with illegal goods, you are immediately fined as per usual. If it's a police ship that catches you, you are ALSO commanded to comply to being escorted to the nearest station, where upon landing your cargo will be seized. Failing to comply with the escort would incur a Wanted status.

 

[Honeycone]

Hm... I think I like this idea. It seems silly that they catagorize stolen items and prohibited items together.

 

[Lestat]

I smuggle all the time. I have no problem with the prices and it really work out when you get a high bounty on a pirate plus the stolen cargo they have.

 

[Hethwill_Khan]

IMO, It SHOULD be tempting to deal in wares illegally for a higher profit than you'd get selling them legally. I agree with you that people would flock to it if it were too easy, and I think increasing the penalty for being caught smuggling would mitigate the issue - something to the effect of:

If you're caught with illegal goods, you are immediately fined as per usual. If it's a police ship that catches you, you are ALSO commanded to comply to being escorted to the nearest station, where upon landing your cargo will be seized. Failing to comply with the escort would incur a Wanted status.

There are Pirate outposts that will pay above galactic average through the BM.
As with trading not all places give the same prices.

 

[McDosy]

Excellent point OP. Fencing stolen goods is a very different fish kettle from supplying contraband goods. One should indeed drive down the price while the other drives it up.

Is that really not how it works now? It seems completely obvious now I've read it.

 

[Ben Ryder]

"TLDR: I it were up to me to fix smuggling, I would keep the black market exactly as is, with one additional layer of logic: if a ware is considered illegal at a station/in a sector, multiply its black market price by three or four times its usual price."

It would definitely be a step in the right direction

 

[Doctor Axel]

@Lestat, that's less smuggling and more piracy (through from a victim that is a legal target.) And in that scenario, where the goods are Stolen, not Illegal, the BM functions correctly. I agree, that doesn't need to be touched.

There are Pirate outposts that will pay above galactic average through the BM.
As with trading not all places give the same prices.

I've not observed that in the wild yet - though I imagine that it is possible, especially in systems that are already paying top dollar for that resource. Either way, though, it's clear that the BM applies a reductive multiplier to stolen goods to account for the fact that they're stolen - which is fine, but is also not what I think should happen for Illegal goods.

 

[Pixeldemon]

Indeed. I'm pretty sure that real-life contraband drugs are only so valuable precisely because they are illegal. If they were legal, they'd cost about as much as sugar or any other processed agricultural commodity.

 

[Riff Rider]

With the exception of stations that don't have a commodities market, every station that prohibits anything needs to have a black market, but right now they don't. Prohibition of commodities seems to be a system-wide thing (correct me if I'm wrong). Black markets are currently confused with fences. An actual black market should list prices for prohibited goods (contraband).

 

[Doctor Axel]

-snip- Black markets are currently confused with fences. -snip-

Exactly! I was thinking it, but you had the words for it. =P

 

[Danneh]

I agree, trading in illegal goods currently offers no benefit over regular trading, with an added risk of a massive fine. I'd also like to see a wanted status being put out on smugglers that get caught several times - a fine is adequate to deter an unscrupulous trader, but a person seeking to destabilize a system by constantly bringing in weapons and drugs is a threat, and should be dealt with as such. Perhaps a message from the station as you leave, informing you to only come back if you have LEGAL business to conduct.

I feel this would add something to player bounty hunting (since no-one other than psychopaths really racks up a major bounty), and make smuggling the high-risk, high-reward system it should be.

 

[medwyn]

Like the idea of sorting out smuggling - I would welcome the "higher risk means higher reward"-method. And I do agree it would pump new blood to the broken food chain of Trader/smuggler - pirate - bounty hunter line.
Seeing the increasing amount of posts in this matter shows that this is a real issue.

 

[letshaveaparty]

Have to do it, and make an EVE comparison:

In EVE online 'safe' trading has for the most part very low profit margins. You can get in on some good deals here and there, as it should be, but for the most part you are not looking at huge markups in profit thanks to the stiff competition. Now if you go for the 'unsafe' trading, it's a whole different game entirely.

With that said, and a disclaimer here that I don't even play ED, the constant feed of information on this board that trading is the number one money maker in this game while smuggling gives you nearly nothing seems to me to be the complete reverse of what you'd expect.

Essentially, legit trading profit margins should be cut down a lot more as players run the routes, opening up the opportunity and the demand for black market stuff.

 

[Sqxd]

so we have rare goods. how about rare contrabands? can only be bought/sold in black markets. just like regular rares, value increases above 150+ ly, but worth 3-5x as much as regular rares. Like stolen items, and illegal across the galaxy, being caught possessing rare contrabands incur hefty fines.

 

[Doctor Axel]

so we have rare goods. how about rare contrabands? can only be bought/sold in black markets. just like regular rares, value increases above 150+ ly, but worth 3-5x as much as regular rares. Like stolen items, and illegal across the galaxy, being caught possessing rare contrabands incur hefty fines.

I do like that, though I think that could happily coexist with the aforementioned changes.

IMO, existing rares trading should be much less common/accessible, or much more frequently illegal.

 

[changtau2005]

Let's say the price for illegal goods is bumped up by even just +50% - +100%, the total demand volume also needs to be low, like several thousand units. Otherwise I'd imagine the most profitable trade routes would become running Imperial slaves across the border in freighters/clippers/pythons/anacondas chucking heat sinks like no tomorrow.