Powerplay A word on 5c, and the state of Powerplay

Status
Thread Closed: Not open for further replies.
Six years ago, Powerplay was on the verge of imploding.

Things were different, back then: Grom didn’t exist, Patreus was still the right arm of the Empire, and Torval still a power of her own. Winters was still reeling from a massive defection of her members, disgruntled by a broken cycle tick that thwarted what would then have been the Federation’s crowning achievement.

Those members went and did the unforgivable: they pledged to the emperor, working cycle after cycle to feed fifth-column preps and damaging expansions to a power already struggling from the bloat of its lossmakers. In a show of solidarity, powers across the galaxy rushed to declare ALD off-limits, hoping to stymie the 5c tide, but it was too late. One fateful cycle, ALD was thrown into deep turmoil, her hauling sabotaged and lossmakers fortified so that her systems would drop, week after week, the community at large powerless to stop it. For all of us, those were dark times.

Not too long after, I myself would leave Elite. I was not the only one: at the time, the discussion surrounding Powerplay had grown so bitter, the outlook on the game so bleak that many of us simply quit. For all we could tell, Powerplay was on the decline, left abandoned by its players and its developers for too long.

But die it did not. When I returned, years later, I wasn’t prepared for what I saw: a community still vibrant, still kicking, one that had taken every punch, but learned to roll with them, too. The road until then hadn’t been all sunshine and roses – but despite it all, Powerplay had lived on. Back at the wheel, I allowed myself to dream: I dreamed of Powerplay as it was in its golden days, driven by rivalry and not contempt, I dreamed of that spark in so many of your eyes back when we first met.

Even now, I believe that we were almost there. But tonight, we have to talk.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

For the past three cycles, in the midst of an imperial attack on Hudson systems, Hudson has been relentlessly and blatantly 5c fortified.

For those past few weeks, every metric - the amount of merits hauled, the order and speed with which our systems were fortified - has been far, far off everything we knew to expect of our random pledges, no matter the cycle. We’ve been caretakers of Hudson for years – we know this better than anyone. This campaign that flies in the face of everything our communities have built for years.

Hudson was heavily and openly undermined from the very beginning, a plan that defies logic unless our opposition could guarantee Hudson would not be able to control their turmoil. This isn't even the matter of hoping for random pilots to fort a few systems - should even a couple systems be missing from the blanket fifth-column fortification we saw, Hudson would be allowed to scrap, ending the imperial operation in unmitigated disaster.

There is no hidden recourse, no backup plan for open undermining at this scale. Imperial coordinators needed to know without fail that Hudson would see a blanket fort, against the wishes of his own leadership. From there, it doesn’t take much to put two and two together.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

I’d like to remind all of you why we fight against 5c, why our agreement on the matter was vocal, unanimous.

5c is both near-impossible to counter, and entirely consequence-free. 5c allows harmful interaction in a way that bypasses the intended framework of Powerplay, at no cost whatsoever to the power engaging in it. 5c kills meaningful decision making, making fortification strategy and turmoil planning moot.

5c has come close to killing Powerplay far more times than it had any right to. We don’t condemn it just because we can: we condemn it because we know the game cannot survive it.

Tonight, all I can express is my profound disappointment. Years have passed – years to learn, years to grow, years to put 5c behind us for good. I believed in us, I believed in you, and there’s still time to reconsider, to do what’s right.

Consider this: a game is only as good as the people you choose to play it with, and the rules you build for yourselves to follow. If you convince yourself that you can’t stand the people around you, and that the very rules you built are no longer worth following – what, then, is there left to enjoy?
 
Last edited:
We've covered this ground before and we don't need to do this again, and we definitely don't need to force the moderators to break this argument up again. All I'll say is that these accusations against the empire are false and leave it at that. If anyone wants more details, they can look up the Winters recap from a few weeks back that turned into a flame war. There's nothing new here that we haven't responded to already ad nauseum anyway.
 
Last edited:
We've covered this ground before and we don't need to do this again, and we definitely don't need to force the moderators to break this argument up again. All I'll say is that these accusations against the empire are false and leave it at that. If anyone wants more details, they can look up the Winters recap from a few weeks back that turned into a flame war. There's nothing new here that we haven't responded to already ad nauseum anyway.

If you disagree with what is said in this post you're free to give your arguments and explain why the empire planned and executed an operation that could only have a positive outcome for them if it was accompanied by a blanket fortification. I've asked a few of your leaders about this and they refused to comment.

From what you said in another post I get that you're a BGS guy and not familiar with the inner workings of Powerplay, so if you don't have anything to add that's fine too. Don't feel obliged.
 
What part of "let's not restart a flame war that was specifically stopped by a mod previously" do you not understand? I know that you have no respect for us and wouldn't listen to anything I actually have to say, but at least show some respect for the people who maintain this forum who will have to clean up after all this when it's over.
 
What part of "let's not restart a flame war that was specifically stopped by a mod previously" do you not understand? I know that you have no respect for us and wouldn't listen to anything I actually have to say, but at least show some respect for the people who maintain this forum who will have to clean up after all this when it's over.

In your first comment you said the claims in this post are false and I just asked you to explain why. As I said, it's totally okay if you can't or don't want to answer my question. I'm not being disrespectful or trying to start a flame war.
 
We've covered this ground before and we don't need to do this again, and we definitely don't need to force the moderators to break this argument up again. All I'll say is that these accusations against the empire are false and leave it at that. If anyone wants more details, they can look up the Winters recap from a few weeks back that turned into a flame war. There's nothing new here that we haven't responded to already ad nauseum anyway.
This happened to Delaine as well in the past- get undermined and then suddenly as if by magic the fortifications are done as well so you get boxed and there is no way to prevent damage.

Lets not forget too that a lot of 'junk' forts go to the closest systems (and has always been that way). To suddenly have everything done out of the blue....is suspect, especially since there is a concerted attack at the same time- which is pure coincidence?

There is no way to prove who did it, but its easy to see who gains.
 
Last edited:
In my honest opinion the best way to prove innocence in this moment is to declare a cease fire for the moment. If the imperials truly stand against 5C actions and how they destroy Power Play, then you should be able to stand with us in condemning these actions. Then once that is said and done come at us when it's fair playing ground.
 
I always thought that there should be a cooldown when you leave a power before you can join a new one. Or at the very least, a cooldown before you can do certain actions. Would probably help mitigate these kinds of 5th column attacks, and it makes sense within a lore perspective.

In real life, someone who just defected from a rival nation would never be given any sort of high level clearance/decision-making powers immediately after defecting.


Disclaimer: I've never participated in PowerPlay (partly because of exploits like this), so take what I say with a grain of salt.
 
In my honest opinion the best way to prove innocence in this moment is to declare a cease fire for the moment. If the imperials truly stand against 5C actions and how they destroy Power Play, then you should be able to stand with us in condemning these actions. Then once that is said and done come at us when it's fair playing ground.

Nice joke. If we are real for a second, nobody will stand down due to accusations thrown at them here. Especially not if they are staunch believers of their innocence. Not after all that time and the that happened in PP.

I remember during late 2020, when there were CC missing out of Torval (making before unturmoilable systems turmoilable), peace was brokered between Torval and Winters to wait until Fdev would fix that mess, but then Hudson decided to instead exploit that situation to help the Federation. Or when we saw unprecedented Grom combat expansion drops by the Grom 5c against he Empire in 2019, before Santa Claus decided to bless Hudson with the biggest combat expansion merits drops in all of PP's history later in 2020 in '21. Noise was made, people screeched in anger, but it was mostly met with silence. And let's not even get started on our own Shattered Prism, the weekly 5c, the former of which happened and the latter is continuing to happen without anyone doing anything about it.


So: No. But I find it a commendable attempt at playing the victim and presenting yourself as the high and mighty honorable guys. Kudos to you for that. :)
 
Last edited:
Honestly, wheres your proof on any of this? Because It seems like you've been doing the exact same thing that you are accusing of us doing for some time now. Lets point of the fact that this has been a blatant sustained attack for weeks now, and the ones who say they aren't the ones doing it keep benefiting and launching a blanket um operation on us. But, let's also address the fact that it just sounds like a whole lot of excuses to keep doing what you're doing, and thats the most troublesome part because you have a lot of animosity towards us for baseless accusations that are just one off instances. You guys can keep assisting in this 5C expansion directly, or indirectly, and there's nothing we can do to stop you. But, in the end who is walking away honorable? The team fighting off a blatant 5C sabator attack or the ones assisting in it?
 
Wired how this stuff only happens when Imp side is doing an opreation, hmmm yes a joke indeed when the bad systems get forted in less than 2h befor it gets cancelled indeed a joke when that happens for past few cycles, yep a joke indeed when the whole operation is set on randoms to fort, no 5c at all here none at all randoms

its kinda wired that torval and grom (powers that can afford to expand), are able to pull through preps with low merit counts i see no thing wrong here at all yes not at all, all randoms


And to that line "biggest combat expansion merits drops in all of PP's history" which you are repeating over and over whats next a squadron and a cmdr that you usally accuse ?
Yes its kind nice when an operation allignes with vacation and when whole comunity goes in and undermines and gets from 10k to 50k merits holding and no one to oppose and hunt the underminers its nice. Just because your underminers cant hold 100k without dieing that dont mean our side cant. But hey i guess you wont belive the person who was in wings with people holding 100k-200k and underming on nav beacon for hours with them to get that amonut.

Great that you dont care about the whole of the game but that one tiny spec of your bubbule, whos next to be targeted LYR , Antal ,Delain? or you just dont care ?
 
Last edited:
This was posted by Fed CMDR during our Asurasairu prep - definite proof of 5c action by the Feds.
 

Attachments

  • Fed 5c.jpg
    Fed 5c.jpg
    98 KB · Views: 304
Nice joke. If we are real for a second, nobody will stand down due to accusations thrown at them here. Especially not if they are staunch believers of their innocence. Not after all that time and the that happened in PP.

I remember during late 2020, when there were CC missing out of Torval (making before unturmoilable systems turmoilable), peace was brokered between Torval and Winters to wait until Fdev would fix that mess, but then Hudson decided to instead exploit that situation to help the Federation.

This is inexact to say the least. It was Winters expanding, not Hudson. Easy to prove since you guys came to the Winters subreddit to complain, not Hudson's.

Missing CC has been a thing in Powerplay for years and still happens today. We all wish Frontier had fixed it but they only redo their calculations manually every once in a while. You can ask Misaniovent, he was the first person to report this problem in 2017. All this time turmoils have been happening and powers kept expanding.

Also, Torval wasn't the only power with missing CC, pretty much every power suffered this problem one time or another, including Hudson and Winters. Torval also had more CC than she should have in 2019 and that didn't stop her from keeping weaponizing into Winters space.

Or when we saw unprecedented Grom combat expansion drops by the Grom 5c against he Empire in 2019, before Santa Claus decided to bless Hudson with the biggest combat expansion merits drops in all of PP's history later in 2020 in '21. Noise was made, people screeched in anger, but it was mostly met with silence.

Hudson leadership has acknowledged there was someone who was making those big merit drops using turret boats. As you said, noise was made but there was nothing we could do about it because it wasn't our people doing it. In fact, some of those expansions were meant as blockers, Hudson didn't want them and was forced to take them.

Around the same time there was a guy who admitted being sabotaging Patreus, he used turret boats to push at least one bad expansion for him and the days and times he used to make his drops were the same the big Hudson drops happened (2 drops per cycle, Sundays and Wednesdays on EU evenings). We suspect it was the same person doing it because in his mind helping the feds was a good way to hurt ALD and Patreus. I told ALD and Patreus leadership about this back then.

And let's not even get started on our own Shattered Prism, the weekly 5c, the former of which happened and the latter is continuing to happen without anyone doing anything about it.

Shattered Prism was a totally legit operation and 5C wasn't involved. We sniped Aisling, the was a turmoil for 2 weeks if I remember correctly, and that's it. It wasn't a "reset", like you guys call this thing you're doing to Hudson, or what you did to Winters in 2019, basically because such a "reset" requires 5C actions we didn't do.

If by "weekly 5C" you mean the preps you get in that HIP system near your HQ, that's probably the dumbest 5C I've seen, a waste of merits and time. It definitely isn't organized, it doesn't operate by surprise just before tick, or only in cycles Feds might want to keep you busy. It's constant and it's so dumb it makes me think it's mostly randos doing it, but who knows. I can't know for a fact, but in any case I sympathize with you and condemn it, and I wish Frontier did something to prevent it.
 
There is no way to prove who did it, but its easy to see who gains.

More so, this time the attackers didn't snipe, they did their UMing in plain view for everyone to see, inviting Hudson to take advantage of it and scrap, but how lucky, 5C appears all of a sudden and turns the assured scrap into an incontrollable turmoil that cascades for weeks.

So yeah, while I agree, this time it's not only who gains but also who needed this to happen for their plan to make sense in the first place.
 
It's been what 6 years since Sandro's last post about powerplay and I get the feeling that fdev don't want to touch it. It's probably because there's no-one left at fdev who understand the inner workings. That's why you don't get arx for powerplay activities and Dav has said that the Power Contact why we're stuck with what we've got.

I only got into powerplay when the content drought hit and was really surprised by that it was quite fun if I got involved with the community playing it. It's a shame that people still 5C and that commanders are blocked so the can't get involved in the legitimate PvP side of powerplay. But there's nothing that can be done, we have to rely on other players being 'Honest' or playing the game 'properly' until fdev do something about it.
 
Status
Thread Closed: Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom