About Retribution . . .

This Reddit post:

https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/5q758c/finding_cmdr_who_killed_me/

gave me an idea for what I think would be a reasonably simple game mechanic which would allow CMDRs a form of retribution, a way to "get back" at griefers, gankers, whatever the kids are calling it these days. Constructive feedback is appreciated:

Whenever a human CMDR blows up a ship piloted by another human CMDR the aggressor CMDRs name & current location (system name, at least, updated in real-time) could be displayed in the "blowed-up" CMDRs HUD for a period of time, maybe a few days so that if desired, a CMDR can track their attacker down and exact some form of pay-back. Maybe the rate of "griefer kills" would drop if these pinheads knew their name and current location would be displayed to their victims for a week.
 
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This Reddit post:

https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/5q758c/finding_cmdr_who_killed_me/

gave me an idea for what I think would be a reasonably simple game mechanic which would allow CMDRs a form of retribution, a way to "get back" at griefers, gankers, whatever the kids are calling it these days. Constructive feedback is appreciated:

Whenever a human CMDR blows up a ship piloted by another human CMDR the aggressor CMDRs name & current location (system name, at least, updated in real-time) could be displayed in the "blowed-up" CMDRs HUD for a period of time, maybe a few days so that if desired, a CMDR can track their attacker down and exact some form of pay-back. Maybe the rate of "griefer kills" would drop if these pinheads knew their name and current location would be displayed to their victims for a week.

Sounds good, even more targets coming at me. And my kill-feed would be exhausted within a few days [hotas]
 
Maybe the rate of "griefer kills" would drop if these pinheads knew their name and current location would be displayed to their victims for a week.
Then the pinheads would hide in solo or a PG until their name cleared.

If you could universally search for someone at anytime, that would work, but griefers and their mates could then use the same system to find you again and again and again.
 
While in general terms I agree with the OP's objective, I feel I must reiterate a concern I usually express in these circumstances:

Proposals like this fuel the myth that it is possible to hunt down and kill a PvP-er in an apex combat ship.

It isn't. You can hunt them (us) down and make us high wake. There is nothing else you can do, because the game does not permit one Cmdr, a wing of Cmdrs, or even two wings of Cmdrs, to kill a competent individual in an apex combat ship before they can escape.

Knowing where the target is is irrelevant because you can't do anything if the target is sitting in front of you in supercruise.

So, whilst this sort of hunting could cause tactical disruption of a target's activities, it can't non-consensually kill them. Unless they are either a pitiful wannabe a in a junk-level ship, or choose to fight and stay too long.

However, I repeat: if the target knows even vaguely what they are doing and has a properly outfitted ship, they cannot be non-consensually killed.

Unfortunately I do not have any proposals as to how this could be changed - to make ED player bounty-hunting / vigilante-hunting a thing. Although I would welcome any ideas other users might have.

The problem of course is that whatever would make a RPK-er easier to kill would also make it easier for the RPK-er to kill, if you see what I mean ...
 
This Reddit post:

https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/5q758c/finding_cmdr_who_killed_me/

gave me an idea for what I think would be a reasonably simple game mechanic which would allow CMDRs a form of retribution, a way to "get back" at griefers, gankers, whatever the kids are calling it these days. Constructive feedback is appreciated:

Whenever a human CMDR blows up a ship piloted by another human CMDR the aggressor CMDRs name & current location (system name, at least, updated in real-time) could be displayed in the "blowed-up" CMDRs HUD for a period of time, maybe a few days so that if desired, a CMDR can track their attacker down and exact some form of pay-back. Maybe the rate of "griefer kills" would drop if these pinheads knew their name and current location would be displayed to their victims for a week.

This title of this thread had me thinking Drew had announced another book. Elite Retribution.. :D
 
Then the pinheads would hide in solo or a PG until their name cleared.

If you could universally search for someone at anytime, that would work, but griefers and their mates could then use the same system to find you again and again and again.

Exactly this would NOT happen ;) - Cause some trouble to attract peoples attention and the trap is complete.
 
While in general terms I agree with the OP's objective, I feel I must reiterate a concern I usually express in these circumstances:

Proposals like this fuel the myth that it is possible to hunt down and kill a PvP-er in an apex combat ship.

It isn't. You can hunt them (us) down and make us high wake. There is nothing else you can do, because the game does not permit one Cmdr, a wing of Cmdrs, or even two wings of Cmdrs, to kill a competent individual in an apex combat ship before they can escape.

Knowing where the target is is irrelevant because you can't do anything if the target is sitting in front of you in supercruise.

So, whilst this sort of hunting could cause tactical disruption of a target's activities, it can't non-consensually kill them. Unless they are either a pitiful wannabe a in a junk-level ship, or choose to fight and stay too long.

However, I repeat: if the target knows even vaguely what they are doing and has a properly outfitted ship, they cannot be non-consensually killed.

Unfortunately I do not have any proposals as to how this could be changed - to make ED player bounty-hunting / vigilante-hunting a thing. Although I would welcome any ideas other users might have.

The problem of course is that whatever would make a RPK-er easier to kill would also make it easier for the RPK-er to kill, if you see what I mean ...

Take a look at the Dark Souls series. P2P as Elite: Dangerous, but they've got "interdictions" and C+P as close to perfect as it's ever going to get.
 
I simply can't risk the hours a rebuy costs just to be someone's target in Open. I've played MMOs with varying death penalties, and ED's is at the higher end.

I like that the death penalty is high in ED, as it makes doing risky stuff more exciting. And being ganked is tolerable in games where the death penalty is not so harsh. But until there's a PvE Open (which I don't think will ever happen), I'll be in Solo or a PG.

I like what the OP is after, but I'm not sure it'll work as intended.
 
It isn't. You can hunt them (us) down and make us high wake. There is nothing else you can do, because the game does not permit one Cmdr, a wing of Cmdrs, or even two wings of Cmdrs, to kill a competent individual in an apex combat ship before they can escape.

Exactly. Killing a PvP-experienced commander is impossible, if he choses not to fight, unless you catch him in his Hauler-Taxi...
Submitting and high-waking takes ~20 seconds... no way any attacker, even a wing of 4 Corvettes can destroy a fleeing PvPer in a PvP ship in this time window.

This is also unlikeley to change, as commanders need a reliable way to escape from wannabe-gankers.
 
The couple of times this scenario has happened to me I chalked it up to experience and vowed to fine tune my "sir Robin manoeuvre".... :)
 
It isn't. You can hunt them (us) down and make us high wake. There is nothing else you can do, because the game does not permit one Cmdr, a wing of Cmdrs, or even two wings of Cmdrs, to kill a competent individual in an apex combat ship before they can escape.

Then they interdict you 15 seconds later and bring you back down. Then you wake, then they interdict. Just like you do when you want the cargo of a t9 that waked away from you.

Part of the retribution is in making you feel like they did when you were the one doing it.
 
The couple of times this scenario has happened to me I chalked it up to experience and vowed to fine tune my "sir Robin manoeuvre".... :)

That's the right spirit... you can virtually always escape from almost any attacker, even in a trading ship, if you are prepared.

Whenever I'm introducing a friend into PvP or playing in open in general, the first thing I practice with them is how to reliably escape. I'm not seeking out any real PvP combat with them, before they routineley manage to escape with ease from everything I can throw at them.

Then they interdict you 15 seconds later and bring you back down.

High wake... they won't even know, where you are... even if they are carrying a wake-scanner you will be long gone, before they reach your destination system.
 
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Then they interdict you 15 seconds later and bring you back down. Then you wake, then they interdict. Just like you do when you want the cargo of a t9 that waked away from you.

Part of the retribution is in making you feel like they did when you were the one doing it.

(Off-topic but actually I personally am a Federal Vigilante Executioner and former Adle's Armada member, not a pirate.)

On-topic: as I said in my earlier post and will repeat - hunters can cause tactical disruption and yes, repeat interdictions can achieve this. Adle's Armada have saved as many new players from destruction in Eravate by repeat interdictions of gankers as by destructions.

But it requires determination and organisation, reduces but does not stop kill-rates and it is best done with a system to defend. I'm afraid I think it unrealistic that vigilante gangs are going to assemble and drag themselves to some random place to find a ganker for the fun of getting a few interdictions on them.

Plus unless the hunters are themselves fully RNGineered PvP-ers connected via voice comms they are at considerable danger of taking losses. I have several times killed a member of an inexperienced chasing wing myself before leaving.

Smiling Dog Crew periodically publish their membership and positively promise to accept all friends requests. Most play in Open all the time. Every forum user therefore can find them anytime they want to.


And yet people don't.
 
Nope.

Because of false positives.

Griefer Bob flies his 1% hull sidewinder in front of trader Bill.

Bill hits Bob. Bob explodes. Bill is fired at by the station, losing his ship and his cargo and earning a bounty.

AND now he wrongly is tagged as a griefer for two weeks and griefer Bob and his gank wing can hunt him down for more immersive content.
 
(Off-topic but actually I personally am a Federal Vigilante Executioner and former Adle's Armada member, not a pirate.)

Didn't mean to think I was calling you it, but taking it in the spirit of your post where "I as a pirate" which is rather meta, preteding to roleplay a character...

On-topic: as I said in my earlier post and will repeat - hunters can cause tactical disruption and yes, repeat interdictions can achieve this.

And that;s why this tactic is retriubution rather than justice. There's no better method, but there's no good ones, so it's pick whichever bad one you think is most acceptable.

And for retribution, what they want is to say "How do YOU like it?". Actually putting someone to the rebuy screen can be, for that, less retribution than spam-interdiction. Which, yes, IS harassment. Not good. But there's no good at the moment.

To paraphrase Winston: Retribution is the worst way to get justice, but all the other ones available are worse. Unlike winston there, I want a better answer. Even retribution, for me, is ctharcism, not helping, and therefore selfish.

I'd like to see missions where two or more players are involved (hence has to be Open or Private) and one is asked to go to some place at some time and they'll get given the cargo to move, and another is asked to go to the same place and win up with that trader and protect them when they go deliver.

And when there's C&P, a mission available near by the route have that package as a target and any "pirate" player in that system can accept that mission and their actions are "condoned" by the pilots' federation and aren't hit by the PKer punishment.

So the two accepting don't know if there will be a directed player pirate on the way. A random player wanting to interfere have the escort to deal with as well as criminal charges, and a pirate player who was in the right place get a legit way to smack players as a pirate.

Retribution is one way to deal with it, but be ready to drop it when there's something better to come along. And in the meantime, retrivution doesn't matter if death isn't dealt, only retributive harassment to those who haven't learned yet that we are all civilised, even if we're playing a maniac, and that there's a good reason why altruism is so necessary to civilisation.

- - - Updated - - -

Nope.

Because of false positives.

Griefer Bob flies his 1% hull sidewinder in front of trader Bill.

Bill hits Bob. Bob explodes. Bill is fired at by the station, losing his ship and his cargo and earning a bounty.

AND now he wrongly is tagged as a griefer for two weeks and griefer Bob and his gank wing can hunt him down for more immersive content.

I don't think collision counts as a player kill, hence why some griefers will body slam a player to get them to open fire first and get a bounty. If collision counted, the griefer troll would get a bounty for their attack and the reply would be legit.

But maybe that's not the case when the collision ends in player death.

PS Back to Truesilver:

"I'm afraid I think it unrealistic that vigilante gangs are going to assemble and drag themselves to some random place to find a ganker for the fun of getting a few interdictions on them."

But some players would gang up and arrange a turkey shoot to get back at them. There's enough noobs who've played long enough to get decent at combat and buy a combat ship, that they can get together and do it.

And some of them will be good enough, especially against those who pick on the defenseless because they're not very good (and others have little practice against an equal), many will be able to go 1-to-1 and just keep interdicting and making them wake off until they log out or find mates to join them.
 
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Then they interdict you 15 seconds later and bring you back down. Then you wake, then they interdict. Just like you do when you want the cargo of a t9 that waked away from you.

Part of the retribution is in making you feel like they did when you were the one doing it.

you dont seem to understand the difference between Low wake and High wake....
 
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