Engineers About the 2.1 BGS

[CMDR Kaymel Kan]

Hi fellow pilots,

We're sitting at the dawn of the release now and I was wondering about the improvements made on BGS mechanics. I heard and read that a big amount of work have been spent on this

Do we have an explicit list about what really changed, what mechanics have been fixed/changed and how ? As a player group we enjoy taking care of our faction and make it grows, but a few things didn't make sense or were bugged as hell [noob] (as the need to trigger a conflict to be able to take control of a second station in a system ; states and influences having incorrect behavior ; faction expanding in a system 30ly from source etc.)

Everyone is pretty exited about 2.1 and talk about engineers and stuff but almost nothing about BGS. I found interesting threads though like the "guide to minor factions and background sim" but it's 190 pages long so I was wondering if someone made a nice recap for those of us who don't usually hang on this forum.

Thanks for your answers,

EDIT :

Here are the information I gathered about upcoming 2.1 BGS changes so far :

• Correlation between states (famine, outbreak ...) and prices of certain goods (food, medicines...), providing great trading opportunities ;
• Correlation between states and missions types ;
• Galaxy Map now shows every state and not only wars ;
• Significantly changed the "Expansion" state. The Faction's search for another system is now triggered at the end of the expansion's active phase. If the surrounding systems are full (20Ly), then an expansion might trigger an invasion war if an appropriate defender can be found. Expansion now cost 15% influence ;
• Added new "Investment" state for factions that have failed to expand, which significantly increases development level for a short time and lets the Faction search a bit further away when they next expand (30Ly) ;
• Added a new "Retreat" state for factions with low influence levels not in their home system ;
• Rebalance how player actions and missions count towards the star system's influence caps for the day ;
  
• Rebalance how player actions and missions contribute towards faction state and influence buckets ;
  
• Additional factors now contribute towards outbreak and famine's bucket ;
• The "Lockdown" state now locks down many station services for affected Factions, allowing Commanders to concentrate on helping those Factions' crime control efforts ;
  
• Conflicts should now be easier to win, with rebalanced effects of combat actions during conflicts ;
  
• War now only needs a 5% influence difference to win. Civil War and Elections remain at 3% ;
  
• When assigning the spoils of war, Ports & Stations that ships can dock at, are now considered more valuable than Planetary Settlements ;
  
• Send out Inbox messages when Commander reputation changes past each threshold ;
  
• Superpower reputation now affects the rate of change of affiliated Faction reputation (ie : If you are allied with Empire, your rep with imp' factions will grow faster) ;
• Local news articles have been improved for many states, including which system a Faction has just expanded into! ;
• Conflict zones and Combat bonds have been "re-balanced" (need clarification) ;
• Unlinked minor faction reputation from their parent major faction reputation, now you will be neutral with an Empire minor faction even if you are allied with the Empire major faction ;
• Added a 'cordial' minor faction reputation level ;
• ...

CMDR Kaymel Kan - Empire Corsairs

(Sorry about bad english or weird wording)

 

[Walter2]

The Guide to Minor Factions is the best source of information on the BGS. Walt Kerman, who started the thread, periodically adjusts the first post in the light of FD statements and the experiences of players, but there is still a lot we don't know and are still discovering. Walt does his best to keep it up to date, but it's almost a full-time job and he has his group play and something called RL that get in the way.

Short answer: it's a big simulation - there are few short cuts to learning how it works.

Edit: Apart from that, there may well be some changes/new features after the release on Thursday.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Trading and missions are now hugely impacted by BGS - and vice versa. System states now increase price of certain goods in certain scenarios like tenfold. System where's famine will pay extra for food, outbreak will pay extra for medicine, etc. There's real profit to be made there, just need to follow galaxy map (which shows states too in 2.1).

And that's only on surface.

 

[Bomba Luigi]

States do effect what mission will be available, states also have now influence on the markets for example medicins pay very high when a outbreak is going on (over 3000Cr for basic medicins which cost 200 credits or so). Also if a faction that expanded into a system can't get up influence or falls down very low (not sure where it is, maybe 1% maybe a bit more) it will go into retreat and get throw out of the system again.

And probably more, but that what I can think of right now.

 

[CMDR Kaymel Kan]

Walt Kerman, who started the thread, periodically adjusts the first post in the light of FD statements and the experiences of players, but there is still a lot we don't know and are still discovering. Walt does his best to keep it up to date, but it's almost a full-time job and he has his group play and something called RL that get in the way.

Short answer: it's a big simulation - there are few short cuts to learning how it works.

Edit: Apart from that, there may well be some changes/new features after the release on Thursday.

Oh yes, didn't mean to denigrate his great job, his guide is the reason I actually know how BGS works ! but in his first thread there's no special section called "What's coming in 2.1" and this is what I am interested about.

Trading and missions are now hugely impacted by BGS - and vice versa. System states now increase price of certain goods in certain scenarios like tenfold. System where's famine will pay extra for food, outbreak will pay extra for medicine, etc. There's real profit to be made there, just need to follow galaxy map (which shows states too in 2.1).

And that's only on surface.

States do effect what mission will be available, states also have now influence on the markets for example medicins pay very high when a outbreak is going on (over 3000Cr for basic medicins which cost 200 credits or so). Also if a faction that expanded into a system can't get up influence or falls down very low (not sure where it is, maybe 1% maybe a bit more) it will go into retreat and get throw out of the system again.

And probably more, but that what I can think of right now.

That's what I am talking about ! Thanks boys, I'll try to update my first post in order to compile those upcoming changes !

 

[Riedquat]

Trading and missions are now hugely impacted by BGS - and vice versa. System states now increase price of certain goods in certain scenarios like tenfold. System where's famine will pay extra for food, outbreak will pay extra for medicine, etc. There's real profit to be made there, just need to follow galaxy map (which shows states too in 2.1).

And that's only on surface.

Have you actually seen this in game?

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Have you actually seen this in game?

I haven't but I know people who has (if you want specific source, Tinman)

 

[Marra Morgan]

From the beta patch-notes:

- Fix an issue when you had exactly -35 rep, it couldn't work out your relationship
- Added investment faction state
- Rebalance how player actions and missions count towards the star system's influence caps for the day
- Rebalance how player actions and missions contribute towards faction state and influence buckets
- Additional factors now contribute towards outbreak and famine's buckets
- Added a new "Retreat" state for factions with low influence levels not in their home system
- Significantly changed the "Expanded" state. The Faction's search for another system is now triggered at the end of the expansion's active phase. If the surrounding systems are full, then an expansion might trigger an invasion war if an appropriate defender can be found.
- Added new "Investment" state for factions that have failed to expand, which significantly increases development level for a short time and lets the Faction search a bit further away when they next expand
- The "Lockdown" state now locks down many station services for affected Factions, allowing Commanders to concentrate on helping those Factions' crime control efforts
- Conflicts should now be easier to win, with rebalanced effects of combat actions during conflicts.
- War now only needs a 5% influence difference to win. Civil War and Elections remain at 3%
- When assigning the spoils of war, Ports & Stations that ships can dock at, are now considered more valuable than Planetary Settlements
- Send out Inbox messages when Commander reputation changes past each threshold
- Superpower reputation now affects the rate of change of affiliated Faction reputation
- Fix background sim consequences for crimes other than piracy or murder and to consider both the victim faction and the faction that controls the jurisdiction of any crime
- Local news articles have been improved for many states, including which system a Faction has just expanded into!
- Fixed localisation for Commodity and Ship descriptions in local news reports

Highlights for me are the new "Retreat" and "Investment" states, the "Lockdown" state locking down station services (mwahaha! dirty tricks ahoy!), wars being resolved quicker and expansion systems being reported in the local news (yay)!

For my group, which is an Anarchy, this one is interesting:

Fix background sim consequences for crimes other than piracy or murder and to consider both the victim faction and the faction that controls the jurisdiction of any crime

I'm wondering if this will stop criminal acts having a negative effect on a ruling criminal faction, which doesn't make much sense, as it currently stands!

 

[Szyslak22]

Expansion has changed significantly. They've changed the criteria for where the expansion goes, and it now tries to find the expansion target at the end of the active state, rather than the beginning. If for some reason the expansion fails, the factions enters a state of "Investment", which is supposed to increase the range on the next expansion attempt.

Bomba Luigi has mentioned "Retreat". Get used to seeing that, because when player supported factions start getting removed from systems they expanded into, people are going to scream bloody murder about it.

Expansion now costs 15% influence. In the live stream they said it was current functionality, but we'd never seen it. Now it's actually happening.
Conflict zones and Combat bonds have been "re-balanced", whatever that means
Lockdown has been changed. No idea to what extent, but there have been some indications it will affect mission generation
Increased security response and AI difficulty should have a pretty big effect on murder sprees.

And of course, none of this has been tested properly or explained at all. So I'm sure everything will be just fine.

 

[CMDR Kaymel Kan]

For my group, which is an Anarchy, this one is interesting:

Fix background sim consequences for crimes other than piracy or murder and to consider both the victim faction and the faction that controls the jurisdiction of any crime

I'm wondering if this will stop criminal acts having a negative effect on a ruling criminal faction, which doesn't make much sense, as it currently stands!

What do you mean by saying "criminal acts" ? Nothing is really criminal in anarchy since there's no cops or fine or bounty of any kind, is it ? Does this mean that kill a random NPC have negative effect on ur faction influence ? This makes no sense indeed !

 

[Colonel Kenney]

What do you mean by saying "criminal acts" ? Nothing is really criminal in anarchy since there's no cops or fine or bounty of any kind, is it ? Does this mean that kill a random NPC have negative effect on ur faction influence ? This makes no sense indeed !

The anarchy system still has its own factions so if you attack someone of a faction you'll be considered a criminal to them. Not the others. I know its all very silly. The way they set this galaxy up is ridiculous. Law enforcement doesn't know what the hell jurisdiction its supposed to be for and representing etc.

When I go to Michigan I get pulled over by the Michigan State Police. (Yep I got caught doing over 100 and he marked me down whew). When I go into an Alliance controlled system there should be Alliance police. They need to police the different factions equally. But you go to a station its a different police station for every place you go. All with different agendas. It really needs to be simplified. If the system is in civil war for control of the system and you fight against the system owners the POLICE as well as military should come after you.

Buy its all just such a mess you never know who's who and who's representing who, then you throw Power Play people in there and smegging hell .. who knows.

 

[Bacalao]

The anarchy system still has its own factions so if you attack someone of a faction you'll be considered a criminal to them. Not the others. I know its all very silly. The way they set this galaxy up is ridiculous. Law enforcement doesn't know what the hell jurisdiction its supposed to be for and representing etc.

When I go to Michigan I get pulled over by the Michigan State Police. (Yep I got caught doing over 100 and he marked me down whew). When I go into an Alliance controlled system there should be Alliance police. They need to police the different factions equally. But you go to a station its a different police station for every place you go. All with different agendas. It really needs to be simplified. If the system is in civil war for control of the system and you fight against the system owners the POLICE as well as military should come after you.

Buy its all just such a mess you never know who's who and who's representing who, then you throw Power Play people in there and smegging hell .. who knows.

Actually when you go to Michigan you may get pulled over by the Michigan state patrol, a county sheriff or a local city cop. You could even conceivably be detained by a US Marshall or the National Guard depending on what's going on in that area at the time (state of emergency).
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When you go to a system in ED you may interact with a superpower (federal/alliance/imperial) security service (state patrol) or a system authority vessel(sheriff/local cop). If something dramatic is happening then you will probably interact with the Navy (National Guard), and because it's a game and we don't want it to be boring like real life, that tends to happen more often than not. It does require you to pay some attention to what's going on.
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It's easy to key in on why this stuff is happening in real life because we watch the news and chat with coworkers and local alert systems (radio, newspaper, television, amber alerts). In ED you'd have to pay attention to galnet, local news stories and the local comms, but who has time for that? We're busy grinding!

 

[Bacalao]

What do you mean by saying "criminal acts" ? Nothing is really criminal in anarchy since there's no cops or fine or bounty of any kind, is it ? Does this mean that kill a random NPC have negative effect on ur faction influence ? This makes no sense indeed !

There is no criminal record, they don't assign fines or bounties, but if you shoot one of their people they're coming after you and if they are losing lots of ships in the system associated with their faction it would obviously have a negative effect on their influence. It isn't the bounty you get for murder that drops a factions influence, it's the ship blowing up.

 

[CMDR Kaymel Kan]

It isn't the bounty you get for murder that drops a factions influence, it's the ship blowing up.

Sure ! Actually I thought Marra was talking about killing NPC from faction "Y" while "X" (anarchy faction) is rulling the system was negative for "X" influence, which is not currently the mechanic. But maybe there's a glitch for anarchic factions which would explain this :
Fix background sim consequences for crimes other than piracy or murder and to consider both the victim faction and the faction that controls the jurisdiction of any crime

Actually I don't really understand this sentence (non native english).

Anyway @Colonel_Kenney the alliance police and more generally the superpower wide police system you are referring to was the way Elite was working few months ago just before the crime and fines update. Now there's still imp, fed and alliance military fleet monitoring systems in conflicts but it's local police (system authority vessel) who actually fill the law enforcement role in the other systems (except anarchy obviously). So that makes sense ! Local pd is owned by ruling faction but if you go to a station which is not owned by the said faction, you won't face the same guys. It is actually much more logical this way and (from an European perspective) makes me think of US police pattern (State patrol : Superpowers military fleet vessels - County Sheriff : system authority vessel).

 

[Trueno33]

From the beta patch-notes:

- Rebalance how player actions and missions count towards the star system's influence caps for the day

I don´t understand this one. Does it mean that the more cmdrs are acting in a system, the less they impact influence, or viceversa?

 

[W.T.Sherman]

Sure ! Actually I thought Marra was talking about killing NPC from faction "Y" while "X" (anarchy faction) is rulling the system was negative for "X" influence, which is not currently the mechanic. But maybe there's a glitch for anarchic factions which would explain this :
Fix background sim consequences for crimes other than piracy or murder and to consider both the victim faction and the faction that controls the jurisdiction of any crime

Actually I don't really understand this sentence (non native english).

Anyway @Colonel_Kenney the alliance police and more generally the superpower wide police system you are referring to was the way Elite was working few months ago just before the crime and fines update. Now there's still imp, fed and alliance military fleet monitoring systems in conflicts but it's local police (system authority vessel) who actually fill the law enforcement role in the other systems (except anarchy obviously). So that makes sense ! Local pd is owned by ruling faction but if you go to a station which is not owned by the said faction, you won't face the same guys. It is actually much more logical this way and (from an European perspective) makes me think of US police pattern (State patrol : Superpowers military fleet vessels - County Sheriff : system authority vessel).

Don't feel bad about having trouble with English sometimes, mate us native speakers have trouble understanding each others sometimes! I think what was meant in that quote was that Murder and Piracy would be "Federal" crimes, lesser crimes would be under local jurisdiction, and "payback" will be taken care of by whoever your crime might have offended directly.

As for the Police situation here in the states it is anything but simple and every state is different. Sometimes you can run into situations where State Police, County Sheriff, and City Police all have jurisdiction at the same time, not to mention several Federal agencies. This is usually taken care of by a combination of "Gentleman's agreements", negotiations and outright bullying, but it can and does sometimes get ugly. To me the system in ED is if anything a bit too simple.

 

[CMDR Kaymel Kan]

This is usually taken care of by a combination of "Gentleman's agreements", negotiations and outright bullying, but it can and does sometimes get ugly. To me the system in ED is if anything a bit too simple.

Can you imagine federal fleet and local PD fighting to decide which of them will kick your ass first That would be AWESOME !