About VR game experience and control scheme

[Falkenherz]

I own a VIVE for quite some time now and bought it mainly in order to play Elite: Dangerous. I also have a Thrustmaster fligth stick.
However, after some intense weeks, my interest dropped almost totally, and I wonder why that is. This weekend, I tried to get back into it, and I may have found some things which are pretty much an entry barrier: the control scheme.

With VR, you are blind to the keyboard. For convencience, I use Voice Attack and all available buttons on Thrustmaster. But still, I find doing anything during flight besides straightforwards piloting very tedious. Those menus, the eternal wait for galaxy and system map, the frequent need to switch to different menus, all the time!

Then I played a bit Subnautica in VR, steering that big Cyclops submarine. And it seemed simpler. Why? The control scheme is much more simple. All required buttons are directly visible and accessible when you turn your head towards them, no need to activate a menu or sub-menu. And you activate them by pointing at them with your head, by means of targeting reticle which is centered on your VR view. It is so fast, so intuitive, and, man, I wish Elite had some overhaul on its UI in that way!

For the galaxy map and system map, can´t we just have a mini monitor which shows this stuff when you look at it?

And what about all this terribly cumbersome meta game information? Which shipyards have which ships, commodities, etc etc? Why is it that you have to have at least two or three internet-browser windows open in order to find all relevant information before you can actually play it? But that´s a gripe I have not only for the VR version of this game...

I still think that Elite is one of the best VR experiences out there, but I really wish that the devs had some time to make the UI more direct and intuitive.

 

[VR andysonofbob]

These sound like issues (very relevant though they are) that affect the main users, not just VR.

I used to use a T Flight HOTAS X with voice attack and I could do everything I needed - I fly FA off so I also need full access to all the axis.
I have customised Voice Attack and it takes me straight to the nested menus like Gal Map and Sys map. It also turns FA Off, deploys weapons and landing gear. Anything that is non critical is set to VA. I have my stick controlling the maps. I think the side menus are quick and intuitive.

I could share my control scheme if that helps?

 

[Falkenherz]

Thanks, I always like to compare and improve my own VoiceAttack control scheme!

However, my issue is linked to the fact that since Windows10/Cortana, I have severe problems with voice recognition. Also, I want to demonstrate VR with ED to my friends. No doing so with relying on highly customized VoiceAttack control.

That´s why I am asking for better intuitive control systems, which do not need numerous third-party customisations. In gerneral, I think the VR problem is no longer technical feasability (obviously), but control scheme accessability. Neither gamepad nor Touch or Vive controllers can solve the issue as long as the interface is still locked to old and overcome UI methodology. It is kind of paradox, because VR as a new interface is basically one huge touch screen, for a user without hands.

Elite: Dangerous is a frontrunner in many aspects, and it pains me to see that lack of details like this prevent a bigger success on the market, especially the emerging VR market.

 

[Globusdiablo]

I own a VIVE for quite some time now and bought it mainly in order to play Elite: Dangerous. I also have a Thrustmaster fligth stick.
However, after some intense weeks, my interest dropped almost totally, and I wonder why that is. This weekend, I tried to get back into it, and I may have found some things which are pretty much an entry barrier: the control scheme.

With VR, you are blind to the keyboard. For convencience, I use Voice Attack and all available buttons on Thrustmaster. But still, I find doing anything during flight besides straightforwards piloting very tedious. Those menus, the eternal wait for galaxy and system map, the frequent need to switch to different menus, all the time!

Then I played a bit Subnautica in VR, steering that big Cyclops submarine. And it seemed simpler. Why? The control scheme is much more simple. All required buttons are directly visible and accessible when you turn your head towards them, no need to activate a menu or sub-menu. And you activate them by pointing at them with your head, by means of targeting reticle which is centered on your VR view. It is so fast, so intuitive, and, man, I wish Elite had some overhaul on its UI in that way!

For the galaxy map and system map, can´t we just have a mini monitor which shows this stuff when you look at it?

And what about all this terribly cumbersome meta game information? Which shipyards have which ships, commodities, etc etc? Why is it that you have to have at least two or three internet-browser windows open in order to find all relevant information before you can actually play it? But that´s a gripe I have not only for the VR version of this game...

I still think that Elite is one of the best VR experiences out there, but I really wish that the devs had some time to make the UI more direct and intuitive.

Agree completely. I ended up selling my Vive again and playing E: D on ultra sharp and fluid settings on my TV with added EDTracker headtracker. Much more accessible, and now I can read the text again.

 

[Falkenherz]

Agree completely. I ended up selling my Vive again and playing E: D on ultra sharp and fluid settings on my TV with added EDTracker headtracker. Much more accessible, and now I can read the text again.

Opposed to you, I could never go back playing non-VR. It is just so much more immersive.

However, I wonder why that headtracking-mouse-pointer-thingy is not used more.

In general I have the feeling that many games have become worse in terms of UI-design than "good old games".

 

[CylonSurfer]

now I can read the text again.

I don't have any issues reading any of the ingame text in my Rift. Personally I could never go back to monitor based gaming even with headtracking. I gave my TrackIR away a looooong time ago now.

However, I wonder why that headtracking-mouse-pointer-thingy is not used more.

Because its horid. Constantly moving your head left or right to point at UI elements soon gets tiresome and hurts your neck. If you have played any of the 'face gun' VR shooters you'd know what I mean. It really is not pleasant after even a short amount of time. You'll find most people here have even disabled the gaze activated 'pop up' left / right panels in favour of key binds...

Now interacting with cockpit controls (non flight) with motion controls - that is awesome. However the HOTAS kinda gets in the way so I doubt that will ever happen and would be a PITA to use if you had to switch control methods all of the time.

 

[VR andysonofbob]

Have you 'trained' VA as in looking at what it thinks you have said and then adding that to the list of commands it is listening out for

E.g. 'Request Docking' VA thinks it has heard 'Address dock'. Add 'Address dock' to the list.

I demo ED to mates all the time. I often have to intervene. But my mates are always blown away by VR and impressed by ED.

I am not arguing about the accessibility of the menus etc in VR and I completely agree with you! I am just suggesting work arounds.

I will upload my VA setup when I get home.

@CylonSurfer
I would love to see haptic gloves with maybe the index and ring finger plus thumb mapped (more the merrier though) Because the glove is fabric you could still use the HOTAS but whenever you needed to type just need to lean over. Not sure how you would get the tactile sensation that you are pressing something though or how the sensors would see you...

 

[CylonSurfer]

@CylonSurfer
I would love to see haptic gloves with maybe the index and ring finger plus thumb mapped (more the merrier though) Because the glove is fabric you could still use the HOTAS but whenever you needed to type just need to lean over. Not sure how you would get the tactile sensation that you are pressing something though or how the sensors would see you...

That does sound very cool indeed.

I played a bit of Flyinside (with FSX) in VR, that supported hand tracking which was pretty cool - was very nice to be able to actually flip your landing gear switch to raise or lower your gear. Absolutely loved flying a Beechcraft Baron from cold - sat on the tarmac turning all of the systems on with my actual hands prepping the plane for flight before switching to the HOTAS and pedals for taxi / take off. Good times. I really should re-install it. Had a blast with some of the sat imagery, flying from my local airport and following actual land marks to find places familar to me. Landed a microlight in the fields behind my home once (in game obviously)!

 

[CMDR Valleys]

I found the same thing, the struggle to find ways around the lack of Keyboard to communicate with other players makes for a frustrating experience. Especially in CGs. but if I'm honest with myself here, my main inhibitor to playing is two children and a lingering exhaustion due to lack of sleep.

I'm waiting for someone to develop a keyboard for VR... i dont think thats a bigs ask really and could be very simple with that Vive addition that you can clip to things... or should i start thinking about patenting the idea now.

Fly safe CMDRs - update incoming (new alien things in the black)

if you want to wing up let me know I'm in the Maia system atm

 

[Falkenherz]

...
Because its horid. Constantly moving your head left or right to point at UI elements soon gets tiresome and hurts your neck. If you have played any of the 'face gun' VR shooters you'd know what I mean. It really is not pleasant after even a short amount of time. You'll find most people here have even disabled the gaze activated 'pop up' left / right panels in favour of key binds...

Now interacting with cockpit controls (non flight) with motion controls - that is awesome. However the HOTAS kinda gets in the way so I doubt that will ever happen and would be a PITA to use if you had to switch control methods all of the time.

I try to find realistic ways. The extreme players of course can find keys blindly, I did this myself, it is like pressing buttons blindly when you do things over and over again. "With the flick of a finger" is an idiom for doing stuff easily, after all. But, coming back after long time makes me understand how the accessability of VR is severely limited by these factors. Headtracking movements should be minimal, and a good way for casuals to find their place.

Setting up VoiceAttack is already advanced behaviour, IMO. Especially given the fact that Windows10 is a step backwards, an unfortunate mix between old windows7-elements and these stupid new Cortana-elements.

Using Vive or Touch controllers instead of flightsticks would always be more imprecise.

I don´t think that we should just accept the current situation until real VR-gloves arrive on the market. Headtracking specific and well accessible "quick-access" buttons on the crotch monitor could at least help casuals or beginners to fly remotely comfortable.

I am in Mula Wendes currently and have no idea what to do in VR at the moment, except for bounty hunting in planetary rings and those beautiful planetary landings. Mission terminal shows zero missions, even though I am allied with most factions. Weird.