Add 'Diplomatic Status' for players who want PVE only

There is clearly a huge demand for a PVE only option. The current option employed by many thousands of players is to join one of the Mobius private groups. Because of the popularity of PVE play style, Mobius groups frequently have to be reorganised because they exceed the 20,000 player limit. There are multiple Mobius groups now to accommodate the demand, 3 on PC/MAC, and groups on XBOX and PS4.

I think it is high time FD implemented a PVE option as part of the main game so we can all play IN OPEN without fear of being ‘griefed’. People who enjoy PVP should be allowed to carry on of course, it is a perfectly fine style of play.

I have come up with a proposal below that I think would allow this, and would be lore consistent.

TL;DR
Player can claim protected 'diplomatic status' by accepting a special diplomatic courier mission, status remains until cancelled by player, can only be reactivated by accepting another diplomatic mission

'diplomatic status' prevents weapons operating when another player is targeted

Scanner outline will be a shield shape when 'diplomatic status' active

Firing on un-targeted 'diplomatic status' ship (assault level) locks out weapons requiring hyper-jump to another system to reactivate (in addition to standard penalties). Ramming should be treated in a similar way

Murder of player with 'diplomatic status' will be logged for investigation by FD

Attempt to interdict player with 'diplomatic status' will result in a failed interdiction

All restrictions apply equally to the player with 'diplomatic status', e.g. cannot fire on other players etc.

'diplomatic status' is temporarily suspended in a combat zone

Interdiction and weapon lock effects will apply to other wing members of the offending player

Player can cancel their own diplomatic status anywhere, but can only invoke it when docked

Here is a lore back-story I made so the changes would not feel like a clumsy hack…

The Treaty of Procyon

In the year 3302, representatives of the Federation, Empire, Alliance, the Independent Pilot’s Federation, and most of the significant Independent Systems attended a diplomatic convention hosted by Sirius Corporation at Davy Base in Procyon, a location chosen for its neutrality and central position relative to the Major Powers.

The purpose of the conference was to agree significant diplomatic conventions that would be observed by the attendees. The minority of independents who were not represented at the convention were left in no doubt that any agreements reached at the convention would also be binding on them, or there would be dire consequences.

The first day of the convention saw impasse with none of the major players able to reach agreement on free admission and protected passage of diplomatic emissaries from opposing powers to and through their sovereign territories on a protected and unrestricted basis. On the second day of the convention there was reluctant, but unanimous, agreement that members of the Independent Pilot’s Federation would be engaged to act as diplomatic couriers carrying encrypted messages and sealed diplomatic containers.

The Pilots Federation, pragmatic first and last were quick to negotiate a very beneficial fee structure for their members who choose to carry out diplomatic courier missions.

After a troubled few months of operation, it became apparent that unscrupulous members of the Pilots Federation were accepting bribes to attack and plunder fellow PF members to disrupt diplomatic activities. There were also reports of pilots directly pirating other PF members to steal and sell secrets to the highest bidder.

Initially the Pilot’s Federation made representations to the signatories of the Treaty of Procyon in an attempt to control the bribery and unscrupulous purchase of stolen secrets. These representations were met with with almost universal denial of any such practices, along with several pointed comments about the lucrative fees that were being paid for safe passage of messages and containers that were falling into enemy hands with worrying frequency. Faced with the prospect of complete loss of credibility, and increasing lawlessness amongst their own ranks, the Pilots Federation were quick to act and imposed the following immediate and binding requirements on all PF members, and external agencies issuing contracts for diplomatic missions to PF members.

1 All sensors and weapons subsystems fitted to PF members ships will be modified as follows:

1a Other PF members will be identified and displayed on screen as hollow outlines as opposed to solid blocks for non-PF pilots

1b PF members who accept a diplomatic courier mission will be issued with a ‘Diplomatic Status’ activation code that will enable protective measures in their on-board systems. These measures will remain activated until such time as the pilot chooses to disable them. Once disabled, the Pilot will remain unprotected until a new diplomatic mission is undertaken. Diplomatic status may also be automatically revoked if the Pilot perpetrates a hostile act on another PF member.

1c When a PF member has Diplomatic Status, they will be identified by a shield shaped outline on other pilots’ sensor displays instead of the standard rectangle outline. Deployed weapons will still be indicated by an angular top outline to the rectangle or shield. A warning will be displayed if a PF member targets another PF member

1d It will still be possible to target and scan a pilot with diplomatic status. Weapons fire will be disabled when the target has diplomatic status. The same restrictions will apply to the pilot enjoying diplomatic status

2 It is recognised that unscrupulous pilots could still fire upon protected pilots without targeting them directly, so the following modifications to ship’s system have been implemented

2a Assault on a pilot with diplomatic status will result in the following (in addition to existing assault fines) - Weapons Systems will deactivate and will not reactivate until the offending pilot has hyper-jumped to another system

2b If a pilot with diplomatic status has their ship destroyed by indirect fire, a Murder charge will apply to the offending pilot, a message detailing the crime will also be transmitted to the Pilots Federation Diplomatic Incident Investigation Force. This could result in expulsion from the Pilots Federation.

2c If a pilot attempts to interdict a pilot with diplomatic status the attempt will fail immediately and the offending pilot will drop out of hyperspace

2d Where a pilot commits an offence while part of a Wing, any other Wing members present in the immediate vicinity will also be subject to the additional measures as per 2a and 2c above

If a pilot with diplomatic status voluntarily enters a Combat Zone, all protective measures will temporarily deactivate until the pilot leaves the Combat Zone, at this point the protective measures will reactivate.
 

rootsrat

Volunteer Moderator
Sounds like a PVE flag.

And a one that you can apply indefinitely. Very bad idea.

It would make more sense if the status lasted only until the diplomatic mission is active (and the missions would have to be proper missions). Also there would have to be severe penalty for not completing the mission for the flagged player to avoid exploiting this mechanics.
 
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Basically a PvE flag...?

Yep, so PVE players can enjoy open, and can see all of their friends (and make new ones), and not be restricted to 'friends from the Americas' or 'friends from EurAsia' which is currently an unfortunate side effect of the 20k size limit on Mobius private groups
 

rootsrat

Volunteer Moderator
Yep, so PVE players can enjoy open, and can see all of their friends (and make new ones), and not be restricted to 'friends from the Americas' or 'friends from EurAsia' which is currently an unfortunate side effect of the 20k size limit on Mobius private groups

But that's not how Elite was designed. Other players are supposed to be able to kill you whenever they feel like it. That's part of the game. What is lacking at this stage unfortunately is the proper crime and punishment system for such behaviour - which FDEV are currently working on I believe.

Your idea in the form you have presented it is a bad one, as it would allow for any player to avoid hostile players indefinitely, without any consequences whatsoever. That is not how this game works, whether you like it or not.

Most of the choices you make in Elite have consequences. This should also be the case with your proposition. And in my opinion the ability to avoid all the hostile players due to having a "diplomat" status is a really big deal and the consequences should be adequate.

In fact, I think to what I've put above (status is assigned only for the duration of the diplomatic mission, the missions should be actual missions you can complete, and not completing the mission would have to incur SEVERE penalties to the palyer) that Diplomats should not be able to enter Anarchy systems at all. Maybe some other restrictions too.

The idea is not bad in general, but giving any player ability to avoid hostiles forever is a no-go in this game.

For the record - I am a PVE player, I don't do PVP, unless forced, I play in Open 99% of the time and I accept all the consequences of that playstyle. I have been destroyed for no reason by other players many times, but I have also managed to escape such players countless times more.
 
But that's not how Elite was designed. Other players are supposed to be able to kill you whenever they feel like it. That's part of the game. What is lacking at this stage unfortunately is the proper crime and punishment system for such behaviour - which FDEV are currently working on I believe.

Your idea in the form you have presented it is a bad one, as it would allow for any player to avoid hostile players indefinitely, without any consequences whatsoever. That is not how this game works, whether you like it or not.

Most of the choices you make in Elite have consequences. This should also be the case with your proposition. And in my opinion the ability to avoid all the hostile players due to having a "diplomat" status is a really big deal and the consequences should be adequate.

In fact, I think to what I've put above (status is assigned only for the duration of the diplomatic mission, the missions should be actual missions you can complete, and not completing the mission would have to incur SEVERE penalties to the palyer) that Diplomats should not be able to enter Anarchy systems at all. Maybe some other restrictions too.

The idea is not bad in general, but giving any player ability to avoid hostiles forever is a no-go in this game.

For the record - I am a PVE player, I don't do PVP, unless forced, I play in Open 99% of the time and I accept all the consequences of that playstyle. I have been destroyed for no reason by other players many times, but I have also managed to escape such players countless times more.

I appreciate your feedback and completely understand your point, perhaps indefinite diplomatic status would be too much.

However..... when there are ~50,0000 players or more (my estimate - please correct if you have more accurate numbers) using Mobius, then FD are clearly failing to meet a huge demand from the player base. The private group mechanism can't cope with this volume of players hence the need to split Mobius into several groups.

Edit - BTW, congratulations to the Winged Hussars on consistently being top of one of my Player Faction league tables! https://zoy.updog.co/fac/
 
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Your idea in the form you have presented it is a bad one, as it would allow for any player to avoid hostile players indefinitely, without any consequences whatsoever.

People already can do this in solo and private groups, all a pve open/pve flag system gives is a place where they can do it with all the other pve players.

Also as pve only players (players that never take part in pvp activity) are the majority (confirmed by fd) isn't it about time they started catering to the majority of their customers?
 

rootsrat

Volunteer Moderator
I appreciate your feedback and completely understand your point, perhaps indefinite diplomatic status would be too much.

However..... when there are ~50,0000 players or more (my estimate - please correct if you have more accurate numbers) using Mobius, then FD are clearly failing to meet a huge demand from the player base. The private group mechanism can't cope with this volume of players hence the need to split Mobius into several groups.

Yes, I am not arguing with that. I just think that none of the player groups should have gameplay advantage over others. Game modes aside (because it's not gameplay), as it currently stands, PVP player have a massive advanatage over PVE players due to lack of a well designed C&P system. And I think this is the way to address the issue - try to resolve it via gameplay.

I like the idea of a Diplomat status, I think it would fit well with the lore and the game mechanics, but I just don't want yet another system that will be abused and exploited by the players.

Edit - BTW, congratulations to the Winged Hussars on consistently being top of one of my Player Faction league tables! https://zoy.updog.co/fac/

Thanks :) We're doing our best! :D

People already can do this in solo and private groups, all a pve open/pve flag system gives is a place where they can do it with all the other pve players.


Also as pve only players (players that never take part in pvp activity) are the majority (confirmed by fd) isn't it about time they started catering to the majority of their customers?

Correct, but adding to the mix yet another mechanics that will be abused and exploited isn't such a great idea. Maybe let's fix what's broken, instead of adding more broken stuff.
 
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Correct, but adding to the mix yet another mechanics that will be abused and exploited isn't such a great idea. Maybe let's fix what's broken, instead of adding more broken stuff.

The point is though that it wouldn't make ANY difference. Anyone who would exploit a pve mode for that already IS exploiting it (your words) in either solo or private group anyway. ALL it would add is the benefit to the majority of the games playerbase to be able to play together.
 

rootsrat

Volunteer Moderator
The point is though that it wouldn't make ANY difference. Anyone who would exploit a pve mode for that already IS exploiting it (your words) in either solo or private group anyway. ALL it would add is the benefit to the majority of the games playerbase to be able to play together.

The difference is if you're exploiting it now - the consequence is you cannot play with everyone else (rightly so).
 

rootsrat

Volunteer Moderator
I want the galaxy to be PVE. Let the weirdos be confined to a PVP instance.
My opinion,
07

Luckily for us that is not going to happen.

[modhat on] Can I ask you to be more polite please? Calling people weirdos just because of their play style is not cool.
 
I still believe that all this flagging and such is a waste of time. What Elite always needed is a PVE mode where player weapon hits (barring regen lasers) don't hurt players and shooting another player incurs no penalty.

I know it's a boring solution, but it's the one that's worked best through the MMO world...

Besides, the OP is right, with thousands of players in private groups, specifically to avoid PVP at all... Something should be done, and a separate PVE mode would allow all of us caregrizzlis to finally live together in peace.
 
PvE flag with immunity to the players in open doesnt make sense to me. I might have completely misunderstood stuff.

Ok so if folk want PvE at present they can join a PvE gropup or groups. There's no limint to teh number of groups you can join, as far as I know. Conseqently there's no limit to the number of PvE folk you can meet or play with. 20,000 seems like a big number for a single group. As far as I know there are a lot of groups so I cant really see what the problem is.

A PvE flag inteh open PvP world sound liek it will cause more problems than it would solve.

Here's some examples.

i) Im a PvP or Bounty Hunter. Ah here comes a player! Oh he's got a PvE flag. Frustration! Why teh heck is my instacne filled with all these PvE players. Get a room!

ii) Im a PvP player. For god sake get off the pad / out the air lock etc. What the heck! Im getting rammed by a Pve player in to the ground and so on. Various exploits to hassle people

iii) Gosh the community goal is fun. Whoever kills the most baddies in the civil war wins. Damn it these PvE player opponents are farming all the ships in fornt of me and there's nothing I can do. He did that one just give the the V as he flew by?

iv) Woo. Time for some Power Play. Oh for go sake Im in the battle zone and the enemy is mocking me as they kill my sides ships and there's nothng I can do about it but watch.

v) Hah Ive followed my prey to the station where he is about to pick up his valuabel cargo. I shall wait outside and a lay a trap. Oh for grannies sake! He's switch on his PvE shield.

vi) This story line is great. Blockade the port to stop teh delivery of blue bannanananans. What do you mean I cant shoot or interdict the ships that are flying past me?

vii) Scans bounty boards. Hey that gusy in the top five wanted list and I saw him in the has res. Flies off to teh resource extraction-site. Oh my uncles wellies! is immune and shappily killin secuirt ships in front of everyone....hm I wish fdev had an open play server...


Most of those are just rough examples but they are kind of meant to show the immense frustrtaion PvP players would feel from flying in open and having folk with a kind of immune god mode frustrtaing their game play experience. I doubt they woudl be happy if slots in instances for folk who are happy to play PvP open get taken by folk who have no interest in doing anything other than chat to other players or go about low intensity tasks like mining and sight seeing. There's only so much space in an instance.


Ive been playing this game almost daily since alpha and almost always in Private Groups or Solo and have found no need at all for some magic PvE shield. When I play in open its because I want the thrill / risk of player danger.

Like I said to start with, maybe I just dont get it. I cant see any reason to water down open play by granting people a PvE flag that mean that just take up space.
 
I want the galaxy in "Elite: Dangerous" to be PVE, like a peddlers pool.
Let the tough guys be granted an "Elite: Deadly", the mosh pit where care bears (like me) dare not go and where all opponents are true warriors. No noobs (like me) flocking in your path.
My opinion,
07
 
Seems to me that PVE players do not live well besides PVP players. Whichever side you want to see that, from every possible perspective, this statement seems correct. On the other side, we have three very "curious" choices: an open mode, where everyone mix together, not matter what; a private groups mode where, possibly, players with a common game style mix together; than the solo mode, where people with its particular and peculiar game style mix, well, with themselves.
Curiously enough, all three modes depend on internet connection, they are all online modes, which share "the same, live, breathing galaxy".

I do not see any value, in what the game currently offers, for neither styles of gaming. Probably, and I could be extremely wrong with this, a PVE or PVP game mode would be enough. Or, for the one which really never engage pvp (like me), a PVE mode - which replace the Solo mode - would maybe will be enough.

So far:

Open - exactly as now
Private Group - exactly as now
Shared - a PVE game style, when you can encounter and communicate with other players, play in multicrew, but only against the environment. Just a revamped Solo mode...

I would like this.
 
Seems to me that PVE players do not live well besides PVP players. Whichever side you want to see that, from every possible perspective, this statement seems correct. On the other side, we have three very "curious" choices: an open mode, where everyone mix together, not matter what; a private groups mode where, possibly, players with a common game style mix together; than the solo mode, where people with its particular and peculiar game style mix, well, with themselves.
Curiously enough, all three modes depend on internet connection, they are all online modes, which share "the same, live, breathing galaxy".

I do not see any value, in what the game currently offers, for neither styles of gaming. Probably, and I could be extremely wrong with this, a PVE or PVP game mode would be enough. Or, for the one which really never engage pvp (like me), a PVE mode - which replace the Solo mode - would maybe will be enough.

So far:

Open - exactly as now
Private Group - exactly as now
Shared - a PVE game style, when you can encounter and communicate with other players, play in multicrew, but only against the environment. Just a revamped Solo mode...

I would like this.

Sounds pretty good.

Im curious about the game balancing.

The PvE mode replacing Solo would kind of tip the balance more in the direction of players. Teh whoel galaxy of NPC ships havning littel or no enginered stuffs vs a huge horde of Players with engineered ships. You coudl argue that this is how it already is but it's not quite because Solo is a single player vs the galaxy. So there woudl be a need for a significant balance pass. Ye syou get wings in private groups however, those groups are limited in size and scale. Just pondering not stating anything as a certainity.
 
Seems to me that PVE players do not live well besides PVP players. Whichever side you want to see that, from every possible perspective, this statement seems correct. On the other side, we have three very "curious" choices: an open mode, where everyone mix together, not matter what; a private groups mode where, possibly, players with a common game style mix together; than the solo mode, where people with its particular and peculiar game style mix, well, with themselves.
Curiously enough, all three modes depend on internet connection, they are all online modes, which share "the same, live, breathing galaxy".

I do not see any value, in what the game currently offers, for neither styles of gaming. Probably, and I could be extremely wrong with this, a PVE or PVP game mode would be enough. Or, for the one which really never engage pvp (like me), a PVE mode - which replace the Solo mode - would maybe will be enough.

So far:

Open - exactly as now
Private Group - exactly as now
Shared - a PVE game style, when you can encounter and communicate with other players, play in multicrew, but only against the environment. Just a revamped Solo mode...

I would like this.

In all honesty, remove solo mode and I'm off to get a refund. Plain and simple. Deal broken. FD couldn't do it anyway because that would constitute a breach of contract.

I'm a staunch supporter of making the game better for everyone (thus my support for PVE modes in general), but I really, really couldn't care less about having to deal with other people's bull, even if they can't physically attack me (althought griefing goes a looooooong way beyond direct attacks... the history of MMOs stands as proof).

Having a PVE mode means I'd have a less brutally annoying option to choose for the very few times I feel like interacting with others, but I'd still spend most of my time playing solo.

Why? I'm one of those players whose imagination runs quite vividly while left alone with this kind of "blaze your own trail" type of game. Quite frankly, just relaxing and going along with my own narration... is just a lot more interesting to me than meeting random people - all or nearly all of which will just end up breaking the immersion anyway. Multiplayer and immersion don't mix at all, unless we get RP servers, and that's another issue all of its own.

Seriously, I've had ideas for games like D&D's version of Star Wars while playing ED, and I wouldn't get this kind of creativity if I ended up constantly chatting with people.


So, a violent, brutal, inequivocal, noisy and utterly noncompromising NO to removing solo mode from me.
 
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