Adding a Karmasystem to the Game

CMDR NEPOMUK · Feb 7, 2016

COMMANDERS,

Did you ever sell Slaves to Blackmarkets?...
I did... And nothing happens... Nobody is judging you for this.

Adding a Karmasystem ( like in Fallout ) would change this.

For example:

You are selling Tons of Innocent Children to Blackmarkets around the Galaxy. The Men who pay for them will remember you and you get a Rank - a Karmarank!

With this Rank you can choose your Side in Elite!

You can choose the good Side or the bad one! With each Rank you can choose Special Missions,for example.

with this step Slaves become more human...not just Cargo! ---> another example...

when you rescue These People you can improve your Rank...

what do you think about that?

It would add more depth to the Game!

-----------
FLY SAFE COMMANDERS

EISENHORN01 · Feb 7, 2016

My actions as a loyal son of the empire in helping my fellow imperial subjects perform their duties and regain their honour is not an illegal act nor is it an immoral one, how dare you taint myself and all other loyal imperial subjects by suggesting such actions have a darkside.

Thetele · Feb 7, 2016

It would become really complicate as good or bad isn´t same for every faction or jurisdiction. Slavery is acceptable in some system and illegal in some others. Imperial system isn´t going to judge you if you sell imperial slaves while federal system would. Same goes with weapons and drugs. Onion head and other rares are banned in some places and some places allow them. Bad thing in one system isn´t bad in other. So we would need to have different ratings for every type of minor and major faction combinations. Good idea but would be hard to make.

Vasious · Feb 7, 2016

EISENHORN01 said:
My actions as a loyal son of the empire in helping my fellow imperial subjects perform their duties and regain their honour is not an illegal act nor is it an immoral one, how dare you taint myself and all other loyal imperial subjects by suggesting such actions have a darkside.

Sell many Imperial Children to the Blackmarket do we?

What to OP suggests actually would be perfect for differentiating between those who Trade in Imperial Slaves within the Empire, and those who sell them outside the Empire in breach of ISA regulation and Senate Decree, as well as the general Slave trade.

However we would then need a was to emancipate slaves as well, so people could be buy up slave to take them somewhere where they could be freed, or simply "liberated" them from a hostile ship

Googol · Feb 7, 2016

In part I agree with the OP - actions in the game should have consequences, and the BGS could do with some work to reflect this - but true Karma implies that actions that are unknown to any of the game's agencies will still have consequences, and that I don't agree with.

InMemoriamSirocco · Feb 7, 2016

Thetele said:
It would become really complicate as good or bad isn´t same for every faction or jurisdiction. Slavery is acceptable in some system and illegal in some others. Imperial system isn´t going to judge you if you sell imperial slaves while federal system would. Same goes with weapons and drugs. Onion head and other rares are banned in some places and some places allow them. Bad thing in one system isn´t bad in other. So we would need to have different ratings for every type of minor and major faction combinations. Good idea but would be hard to make.

Which is why a faction reputation system is superior to a Fallout 3 Karma system.

Still, as an Imperial Trader you should get to experience resentments and reservations against you in Federal space... And vice versa.

Alex Brentnall · Feb 7, 2016

I respectfully disagree, Karma systems never really make a game better imho. We already have rep with the factions, keep that and possibly extend it to powerplay faction rep but do not add a generic good/bad for your actions.

It's messy and never really works properly, especially for a game of Elite's scope and diversity. One factions positive act is anothers negative so what is universally good or bad depends a lot on your perspective. Even within the imperial faction trading in Imperial slaves (what you categorise as bad would make a character like Torval proud of you).
And to be fair can you remember a game with a karma system that wasn't criticised because of it? Bioshock, Mass Effect, Fallout, Red Dead Redemption, Infamous, Fable all on the list for Karma systems that railroaded the plot and were largely considered a bad idea. I can't actually remember a game where a karma system wasn't criticised and was seen as a positive element...

Just my personal thoughts.

Thetele · Feb 7, 2016

InMemoriamSirocco said:
Which is why a faction reputation system is superior to a Fallout 3 Karma system.

Still, as an Imperial Trader you should get to experience resentments and reservations against you in Federal space... And vice versa.

But how the federal dude know that i have traded imp slaves more than 100 ly away? I am just one cmdr i am nothing in the bubble when the population is probably well over 1 000 000 000 000. There is no way that my tradings (marginal to galactic crimes and amount of slaves get traded by others) far away would interest any one in federation system authority. But if i get scanned with them in federation space or by federal agent in empire space, I should be in really bad place.

Iskariot · Feb 7, 2016

CMDR NEPOMUK said:
COMMANDERS,

Did you ever sell Slaves to Blackmarkets?...
I did... And nothing happens... Nobody is judging you for this.

Adding a Karmasystem ( like in Fallout ) would change this.

For example:

You are selling Tons of Innocent Children to Blackmarkets around the Galaxy. The Men who pay for them will remember you and you get a Rank - a Karmarank!

With this Rank you can choose your Side in Elite!

You can choose the good Side or the bad one! With each Rank you can choose Special Missions,for example.

with this step Slaves become more human...not just Cargo! ---> another example...

when you rescue These People you can improve your Rank...

what do you think about that?

It would add more depth to the Game!

-----------
FLY SAFE COMMANDERS

I love the idea (proposed something like it a while ago actually

)
Karma is a not the word I would personally use (but that is of minor importance).
What I would love is a sophisticated reputation system.

For example:
I never betray my clients. When they hire me I get the job done and never sell out, never betray.
This should count for something. Mission givers should slowly trust me more and want to pay me more because of that.
I should be getting more interesting missions, more difficult and important missions etc.

Another example:
I have been pledged to A. Lavigny-Duval from the start.
Even though I am currently no longer active in PP I still keep loyal to my PP master.
I have never switched sides.
This should count for something. Not just in PP, but perhaps also in the Imperial military.
This could have all kinds of cool consequences like:
- better missions,
- better pay,
- slower merit decay
- discounts on ships and modules, fuel, repairs
- bonuses etc. etc.

Odan Brota · Feb 7, 2016

Blegh, Karma systems. My trade empire is built on the back of slavery. To a federal lapdog, I look evil. To an upstanding imperial citizen, I'm not doing anything out of the ordinary. It's all your point-of-view.

Besides, killing is wrong according to many... and you've got a lot of blood on your hands, Commander.

shadragon · Feb 7, 2016

We had this thread in the main DD forum on the go last week, but the mods moved it to the suggestions forum and no one else saw it.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=228557

InMemoriamSirocco · Feb 7, 2016

Thetele said:
But how the federal dude know that i have traded imp slaves more than 100 ly away? I am just one cmdr i am nothing in the bubble when the population is probably well over 1 000 000 000 000. There is no way that my tradings (marginal to galactic crimes and amount of slaves get traded by others) far away would interest any one in federation system authority. But if i get scanned with them in federation space or by federal agent in empire space, I should be in really bad place.

Never heard of prejudices? They don't need to know anything. They can just presume. "He's an Imperial Trader, probably has made most of his money as a human trafficker... Disgusting scum. I say we interdict him for a routine scan just to mess with his schedule."

Humans don't need facts to act on enmities.

Iskariot · Feb 7, 2016

Odan Brota said:
Blegh, Karma systems. My trade empire is built on the back of slavery. To a federal lapdog, I look evil. To an upstanding imperial citizen, I'm not doing anything out of the ordinary. It's all your point-of-view.

Besides, killing is wrong according to many... and you've got a lot of blood on your hands, Commander.

Exactly and that is all what a good reputation system is all about.
Taking your examples:
I you deal in Imperial slaves this will have no influence on your rep with the Empire, but it will negatively influence your rep with the feds.
If you sell non-imperial slaves this will negatively influence your rep with the Empire and the Feds as well.
This might have all kinds of consequences. Feds might not be inclined to let you take on passenger missions for example.
The same might be true for the Imps if you also traded in non-imperial slaves.

As far as "killing is wrong" is concerned... If there was a pacifist movement in the game then your rep with them might be very low.
This would influence the missions you could get from them.
On the other hand your rep with more militant factions might be positively influenced.

And so on.

sam445 · Feb 7, 2016

I like the idea of a karma meter.