General / Off-Topic After the attacks in Paris, the archbishop of Canterbury recognizes to have doubted the presence of God

[Mephane]

That depends. An omnipotent being can not, by nature, be considered omnipotent unless it is free to do anything. It wouldn't necessarily be bound to the morals of its own teachings.

Secondly you have the problem of free will. If god did swoop down and stop the holocaust it would be eliminating the human need for freedom - a potentially greater evil - as free will is basically conscience, our very beings and how we define ourselves. If we were not able to act as our own agents anymore that would in itself be a kind of death.

Lastly, and most importantly, to stop the holocaust would require a potential god to commit an evil of its own. It would have to move in and kill people, potentially innocent people, to prevent it.

Neither in my personal moral code, nor the Christian one, does human freedom include the freedom to commit genocide.

And to stop the holocaust, the omnipotent, omniscient god could have prevented the existence of the third reich in the first place; for example, by just fixing all elections that came before it, so they never wold have risen to power.

Heck, the omniscient god not only is supposed to know the future, the omnipotent god is supposed to have created, pre-destined it. Technically, if he existed, god committed the holocaust, too, by setting events in action that he precisely knew would lead to this outcome. Usually at this point there is the "he knows better than us" or "he works in mysterious ways" argument, but that is basically nothing less than an admit of defeat.

Are you saying that the christian god condemns murder?

Well, nowadays, it is considered so indeed. That the bible literally contradicts such teaching just is one many instances cognitive dissonance at work within the religion.

 

[Surfinjo]

Neither in my personal moral code, nor the Christian one, does human freedom include the freedom to commit genocide.

Human freedom is another construct entirely. A different issue from the one you initiated.

Technically, if he existed, god committed the holocaust, too, by setting events in action that he precisely knew would lead to this outcome.

Yes, exactly. And dying children, sad, neglected puppies, lonely old people, starvation, Malaria, Tony Blair and Modern Music.

If I may suggest, you must separate your value judgements from your images of philosophy. Life is tough and it hurts.

 

[FuzzySpider]

Neither in my personal moral code, nor the Christian one, does human freedom include the freedom to commit genocide.

That is freedom. Of course there are consequences for abusing freedom but nevertheless it is still freedom. If a theoretical god stopped the holocaust such a god would have to interfere to stop each and every murder (killing a thousand is no more immoral than killing one). Giving humans freedom to only do the right thing would completely negate that very freedom, and any "good" that humans did wouldn't be out of good motives but because they were compelled to do good.

Well, nowadays, it is considered so indeed. That the bible literally contradicts such teaching just is one many instances cognitive dissonance at work within the religion.

That's totally true, and is true of all religions. However, atheists with a moral code that they believe other people should follow (no theft, murder, etc) also have the same cognitive dissonance. There is no way to derive an ought from an is, and so there can be no objective or "real" basis for any sort of moral reasoning.