After the Docking Computer, why not a Fuel Scoop Computer for Explorers?

Lightspeed

Lightspeed
You know the drill ..... 4...3...2..1....... jump ..... reduce speed to slow or zero ..... jump out at star .... manoeuver for next star and fuel scoop on the way round.

Now, since the Docking Computer is being seriously buffed for 2.4 by SJA, is it feasible ... is it possible .... is there a need ..... to design a Fuel Scoop Computer ?

Since commanders are saying that a reliable DC allows them to do other things while landing, such as looking at the Gal Map/System Map , would automation be a useful feature for scooping?

The options of such a computer might be set to achieve:

(a) maximum scoop rate as a priority;
(b) scoop slower to avoid overheating;

Then, when fuel scooping is complete:
(a) wait for commander input
(b) target next star and jump (the ship may have to manouever on auto pilot to do this).

Would such an idea have merit, to avoid repetition (as with the docking computer)?
Would it save time?
Would it improve your enjoyment of the game (assuming such a computer works reliably)?

Or does it represent a slow creep of automation into the game that we should resist?
 

Chunky007

Chunky007
Its an interesting idea, but it may as you say introduce too much automation.

I thought to myself auto jumping might be a good timesaver, plot a course and jumps automatically till you reach fuel limit. But that would take a lot of enjoyment out, and start making the game quite repetitive
 

wrmiller

W
Yea, forcing players to do most everything manually is 'so' worthwhile to gameplay. :rolleyes:

On one hand, the game tries to be a simple arcade bang bang game for some folks, and a more complex simulator for those who want to do something more involved with the game. Unfortunately the latter group is stuck with the simple arcade constructs of the former to get by with. Hardly satisfying to say the least.

It's not like starships would be manually driven in real life anyway. Fighters yes, large starships, no. Unless in an emergency. And forget allowing some hamfisted pilot the chance to screw up docking at a starport. Just wouldn't happen. Same for the delicate task of fuel scooping. Let the ship's computer handle that.

Sounds like an opportunity to develop this game along two fronts: One mode for the fighter jocks, and one for the starship pilots looking for more depth. Maybe even allow the fighter pilots to interact with the starship drivers, and possibly even to serve on the starships. Those who don't need/want to play with other humans can have NPC to serve as crewmembers and mercenary fighter pilots for hire. Hmmm...not a half bad idea thread here. ;)

Ok, so how do I take over ED's game development? :p:D
 

GG7

G
Why? High Efficiency Fuel Scooping is one of the "easiest" techniques to master in the game.

Even a T9 can pull a tight enough stellar orbit to maximize fuel intake and heat.

I know I know...Don't feed the TROLL.
 

IndigoWyrd

IndigoWyrd
No need.

All you have to do is pull up close enough to a star to initiate fuel-scooping, cut your throttle to 0, and wait.

Yes, you won't reach anywhere near your scoop's capacity, but you'll also not overheat, and while you are still moving (extremely slowly), it would take quite some time to actually fall into the zone around a star.
So you can essentially park and refuel. It's how I took a Beluga 5200 Ly with Class 4 fuel scoop. It's a method often called "basking", and it works quite well.
 

dayrth

Volunteer Moderator
dayrth
IndigoWyrd said:
No need.

All you have to do is pull up close enough to a star to initiate fuel-scooping, cut your throttle to 0, and wait.

Yes, you won't reach anywhere near your scoop's capacity, but you'll also not overheat, and while you are still moving (extremely slowly), it would take quite some time to actually fall into the zone around a star.
So you can essentially park and refuel. It's how I took a Beluga 5200 Ly with Class 4 fuel scoop. It's a method often called "basking", and it works quite well.
Click to expand...

Wow that's impressive. My Beluga only has to see a star and it overheats (or try and take off from a planet, or boost one too many times or try and jump to another system or try and use the kettle and toaster at the same time :().
 
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robbyp

robbyp
This is a game. We have to do something when playing it. I'm not sure we want to go to the point and click mechanic of Eve.

One thing that put me off of flight Sims is the autopilot. Once you set it up, you were basically just looking at a screen.

So Im not sure that more automation is a great idea.
 

wrmiller

W
Wow. I thought it was a valid/interesting question. Something to just bounce off the walls so to speak.


robbyp said:
This is a game. We have to do something when playing it. I'm not sure we want to go to the point and click mechanic of Eve.

One thing that put me off of flight Sims is the autopilot. Once you set it up, you were basically just looking at a screen.

So Im not sure that more automation is a great idea.
Click to expand...

So why use the autopilot? It's there if someone wants to use it, but doesn't require use. The same mechanism could be used for any in-game feature.
 
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Lightspeed

Lightspeed
GG7 said:
I know I know...Don't feed the TROLL.
Click to expand...

If that was aimed at me, I am unimpressed by your level of argument that you are able to muster. An immature response.

IndigoWyrd said:
No need.

All you have to do is pull up close enough to a star to initiate fuel-scooping, cut your throttle to 0, and wait.

Yes, you won't reach anywhere near your scoop's capacity, but you'll also not overheat, and while you are still moving (extremely slowly), it would take quite some time to actually fall into the zone around a star.
So you can essentially park and refuel. It's how I took a Beluga 5200 Ly with Class 4 fuel scoop. It's a method often called "basking", and it works quite well.
Click to expand...

Basking! I like that term. Yes, I feel forced to do that in my Beluga :)
 

GG7

G
Lightspeed said:
If that was aimed at me, I am unimpressed by your level of argument that you are able to muster. An immature response.



Basking! I like that term. Yes, I feel forced to do that in my Beluga :)
Click to expand...

Your hatred of the Docking Computer is legendary around here. I can't see this thread being anything but an attempt to troll.

And stop using the word "immature" for anything you don't like or agree with. A typical response from a truly immature individual who doesn't know the meanings of the words they use.
 
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IndigoWyrd

IndigoWyrd
dayrth said:
Wow that's impressive. My Beluga only has to see a star and it overheats (or try and take off from a planet, or boost one too many times or try and jump to another system or try and use the kettle and toaster at the same time :().
Click to expand...

Through very careful outfitting, it's actually possible to install a Grade 1 Low Emission Power Plant engineering upgrade, which will just slightly lower your total power output, but greatly reduce the amount of heat produced, thus keep your Beluga from overheating. Anything more than a Grade 1 Low Emission will cut your power production too much, even with a 6A power plant.

Also, switching off modules, such a the Planetary Vehicle Hanger or AFMU during routine flight will also greatly reduce your average heat production.

I have a second Beluga, the Naked Singularity, which I used in the recent Bounty Hunting CG (finished in the top 25%), that is designed for long-range, long-term exploration. I keep my AFMU switched off because while it's on, simply initiating a Frame Shift Jump will push me to 112-135% heat easily. Switched off, I don't go above 70%.

The Naked Singularity: https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/bel...==.Aw18WCMZA===..EweloBhBGYA4agKYEMDmAbJIYT0A

This build mandated a G5 Overcharged Power Plant to keep up with its demands, and even then I run at 98% capacity, after engineering everything else as much as could. It's a fierce ship, though it was designed to head into deep space, it's still a load of fun to take into battle - you should have heard the wing of combat Cutters I hooked up with when they realized what I was flying! Or when they came to realize I was holding my own just fine!

I'll have to grab some video of it in combat next time I take it out.
 

Godsailsaqueen

Godsailsaqueen
robbyp said:
This is a game. We have to do something when playing it. I'm not sure we want to go to the point and click mechanic of Eve.

One thing that put me off of flight Sims is the autopilot. Once you set it up, you were basically just looking at a screen.

So Im not sure that more automation is a great idea.
Click to expand...

With all due respect, get rid of the docking computer then. Its ease of use, allowing you to plot your next jump while your ship docks of its own, certainly goes against elite's motto, and gets it closer to EVE.

IndigoWyrd said:
No need.

All you have to do is pull up close enough to a star to initiate fuel-scooping, cut your throttle to 0, and wait.

Yes, you won't reach anywhere near your scoop's capacity, but you'll also not overheat, and while you are still moving (extremely slowly), it would take quite some time to actually fall into the zone around a star.
So you can essentially park and refuel. It's how I took a Beluga 5200 Ly with Class 4 fuel scoop. It's a method often called "basking", and it works quite well.
Click to expand...

This is the right justification IMO.
Still, getting to the lowest supercruise speed and pointing at the star does slow you down a bit when you take the helm again and try to reach for that star at the other side of your current star. a fuel scoop computer making you "orbit" around the star at confortable speed would let you jump faster.

In my opinion this is not feasible. Docking computers have sometimes caused unwanted crashes. That's a pain in populated space, but when you're doing trade runs, you don't lose that much.
A fuel scoop computer failing and here goes months of exploration. I can imagine the forum revolution.
 
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robbyp

robbyp
Must have hit a sore spot!

My preference would be frontier not expend any Dev effort on this idea, and use their limited efforts on something else. Is that better?
 

Lightspeed

Lightspeed
IndigoWyrd said:
Through very careful outfitting, it's actually possible to install a Grade 1 Low Emission Power Plant engineering upgrade, which will just slightly lower your total power output, but greatly reduce the amount of heat produced, thus keep your Beluga from overheating. Anything more than a Grade 1 Low Emission will cut your power production too much, even with a 6A power plant.

Also, switching off modules, such a the Planetary Vehicle Hanger or AFMU during routine flight will also greatly reduce your average heat production.

I have a second Beluga, the Naked Singularity, which I used in the recent Bounty Hunting CG (finished in the top 25%), that is designed for long-range, long-term exploration. I keep my AFMU switched off because while it's on, simply initiating a Frame Shift Jump will push me to 112-135% heat easily. Switched off, I don't go above 70%.

The Naked Singularity: https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/bel...==.Aw18WCMZA===..EweloBhBGYA4agKYEMDmAbJIYT0A

This build mandated a G5 Overcharged Power Plant to keep up with its demands, and even then I run at 98% capacity, after engineering everything else as much as could. It's a fierce ship, though it was designed to head into deep space, it's still a load of fun to take into battle - you should have heard the wing of combat Cutters I hooked up with when they realized what I was flying! Or when they came to realize I was holding my own just fine!

I'll have to grab some video of it in combat next time I take it out.
Click to expand...

That's really helpful information. I shall have to take a fresh look at how I engineered my Beluga (it's gathering dust at Okinura).
 

Dsign

Dsign
Well if the docking computer is mostly annoying, a fuel scoop computer would certainly get you killed 10/10.:x
 
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