AI Expansion?

[eatmywords]

I only play on Solo. Does the AI actually expand into empty systems? I know they attack other systems, but I want to know if the AI is actually expanding into the galaxy. If so, how does this work? Is it solely choosing system that will help economically or strategically? Also, won't this work exponentially? That if an AI expands into 3 systems, then it would then be able to expand into 3 more + 1, for instance. Of course, I'm not talking about Powerplay; I'm not interested in that atm. But I do think this fascinating, in that the individual powers are actually pushing outward constantly for some actual purpose.

Also, what is the effect of selling system data to superpowers? Do they actually work from this data, or is it just a way to make money? I'd like to think you might be selling another system out for profit.

And if the powers are expanding, what is the process? Is there a building phase? Some systems have as little as a few thousand people, so how does that population expand also? Equally, this might all be in my mind. Not like I'm able to measure whether the populated part of the universe is expanding, but the amount of talk of expansion and the demand for data must have some purpose.

I really do love this game, and always have in the past, but if there is something so deep and complex going on behind the scenes, then I can only praise Frontier for again making Elite so absorbing that I can play very little else, and a game that makes me stop and think about what's going on; or what I'd like to be going on.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

I only play on Solo. Does the AI actually expand into empty systems?

No - expansion just moves factions around the already populated systems. New systems are only settled when Frontier manually intervenes.

As you've identified there are potential problems with exponential expansion rates, which may be one of the reasons it's not implemented yet - while it's improved in recent years, the bubble is still a bit too large for the player base.

Also, what is the effect of selling system data to superpowers? Do they actually work from this data, or is it just a way to make money? I'd like to think you might be selling another system out for profit.

It will improve the standing of the faction in the system you sell the data to, but doesn't appear to have any wider effects.

 

[eatmywords]

That's a shame, because it would be cool if you could program the AI to expand to the limits of it's capability. Once you get to the limits of the populated systems, the universe starts to become less-dimensional. I'm not complaining of course. This is exactly the situation Frontier was in, but it didn't stop me from trying to get to the other side of the universe.

 

[Deareim]

wait, there is an AI ?

 

[Nightstorm]

As you've identified there are potential problems with exponential expansion rates, which may be one of the reasons it's not implemented yet - while it's improved in recent years, the bubble is still a bit too large for the player base.

That's a really good point - Crimson State Group is in 17 systems, and as I jump around in Open it's quite rare that I see other players. If it was busier, we'd have a much bigger problem controlling the BGS, but I don't often get chance to welcome visitors and try/fail to recruit them to our cause! Expansion into 'empty' space would have to be very gradual. I wonder how FDev handled expansion in Colonia?

 

[Ian Doncaster]

I wonder how FDev handled expansion in Colonia?

Colonia expansion was carried out in multiple phases. A simplified list [1]:
- late 3302: construction of some basic outposts to make it multi-system
- early to mid 3303: establishment of PMF surface settlements
- mid 3303: construction of multiple orbital settlements to stabilise economy (and allow us to complete trade CGs without running out of goods)
- late 3303 onwards: extra assets in existing systems but very few new systems

There does seem to have been some care taken to avoid Colonia outgrowing its player density - at the moment, I would guess Colonia is approximately 50% busier per-system than the bubble, with a much more compact distribution (nowhere with no activity, but nowhere as busy as a big Powerplay or Engineer system in the bubble either)

More ways to develop existing systems - make an extended Investment state harder to maintain, but do something if it is - would probably be easier to balance than expansion into new systems.


[1] For a full list https://cdb.sotl.org.uk/systems is sorted by the "phase" column which separates out distinct sets of settlements in more detail

 

[eatmywords]

Frontier should develop some transportable platforms, so the player can colonise systems. And then you just wait to see if you can attract visitors or workers, or even slaves. heh-heh-heh.

 

[eatmywords]

I'm still convinced the AI is expanding on its own. Although I can't be completely certain atm, but white blobs are appearing outside of the faction boundaries, and one system has just 234 population. I just don't see why systems that say they're expanding, and want to buy system data, don't do anything with it.

I shall now be monitoring the situation, but space is big and I only have two eyes :/