Alien Allegiance?

So apparently, winter is coming.

A little bit funny if you ask me 'cos I seem to be having nothing but fun, fun, fun (in the Sun, Sun, Sun...).

In any case when our scaly (?) friends descend upon us, if the event descends into total war, I want in with the alien guys.

They kind of have the cool ships and frankly they're probably right. Humans are worth exterminating.

So yeah. Anyone else in with me on this? I would like to know if there is any kind of sacrifice we can make to the Thargoids from lore that shall appease them, and perhaps even consider me for a role as Doomsayer. I can run around inhabited space announcing the coming of our new overlords and pew-pewing the objectionable sorts.
 
From the lore, and assuming that the "Aliens that are coming" are indeed the Thargoids, then here's what we know.

- They live, or once lived, on Ammonia worlds. Their biospheres and ours are mutually incompatible.
- They are insectoid, so I believe the adjective you seek is "chitinous" rather than "scaly".
- They are eusocial, having a "hive mind", not entirely unlike bees, ands and other eusocial insects familiar to us on Earth.
- Their technology is considerably in advance of ours, at least in terms of weaponry and stardrive tech - they can both outrun us and outgun us.
- We only won the last war against them because we "cheated", using biotech.

From these known facts, we can make some reasonable conjectures.

- We cannot terraform their worlds, and presumably they cannot thargoform ours. So any potential future war will not be about "Lebensraum", since neither of us can leben in each other's raums. Mass enslavement is also an unlikely outcome, for much the same reason: maintaining control over the slave planets would be prohibitively expensive. The motivation for war will therefore be different: resource control seems possible, but I think a mostly empty galaxy would be big enough for the both of us for quite some time to come. The only other option is irrational xenophobia: we think they're icky, and they think we're icky.

- They have no innate understanding of human concepts of "freedom" and "individualism". They may have come to some theoretical understanding of such concepts from their centuries of observing and studying us, but they will not find such things, and human behaviours that naturally emerge from such things (such as "treachery" and "double-dealing") easily understood.

- They will therefore have little or no concept of human politics and factions - humans will all be the same to them and even if certain humans or groups of humans behave differently towards them than other humans, they will likely have trouble telling us apart.

- The idea that some humans would want to betray their own species and assist in their own subjugation or extermination would be literally unthinkable to them, so they would not believe you if you offered them your services.

- Assuming they have indeed been observing us and understanding something of what they observed, then the concept of the "double-cross" would have been observed by them. The plain and simple fact is, humans - either individually or collectively - are unpredictable, they cannot be relied upon to maintain a certain position. They can be all cute and friendly one day, and the next day, suddenly and without warning, they'll turn on their former friends and attack them.

Conclusion: you were born a human, and cannot choose to be anything else. No options for "joining the aliens", up to and including reincarnation, will be allowed.
 
From the lore, and assuming that the "Aliens that are coming" are indeed the Thargoids, then here's what we know.

- They live, or once lived, on Ammonia worlds. Their biospheres and ours are mutually incompatible.
- They are insectoid, so I believe the adjective you seek is "chitinous" rather than "scaly".
- They are eusocial, having a "hive mind", not entirely unlike bees, ands and other eusocial insects familiar to us on Earth.
- Their technology is considerably in advance of ours, at least in terms of weaponry and stardrive tech - they can both outrun us and outgun us.
- We only won the last war against them because we "cheated", using biotech.

From these known facts, we can make some reasonable conjectures.

- We cannot terraform their worlds, and presumably they cannot thargoform ours. So any potential future war will not be about "Lebensraum", since neither of us can leben in each other's raums. Mass enslavement is also an unlikely outcome, for much the same reason: maintaining control over the slave planets would be prohibitively expensive. The motivation for war will therefore be different: resource control seems possible, but I think a mostly empty galaxy would be big enough for the both of us for quite some time to come. The only other option is irrational xenophobia: we think they're icky, and they think we're icky.

- They have no innate understanding of human concepts of "freedom" and "individualism". They may have come to some theoretical understanding of such concepts from their centuries of observing and studying us, but they will not find such things, and human behaviours that naturally emerge from such things (such as "treachery" and "double-dealing") easily understood.

- They will therefore have little or no concept of human politics and factions - humans will all be the same to them and even if certain humans or groups of humans behave differently towards them than other humans, they will likely have trouble telling us apart.

- The idea that some humans would want to betray their own species and assist in their own subjugation or extermination would be literally unthinkable to them, so they would not believe you if you offered them your services.

- Assuming they have indeed been observing us and understanding something of what they observed, then the concept of the "double-cross" would have been observed by them. The plain and simple fact is, humans - either individually or collectively - are unpredictable, they cannot be relied upon to maintain a certain position. They can be all cute and friendly one day, and the next day, suddenly and without warning, they'll turn on their former friends and attack them.

Conclusion: you were born a human, and cannot choose to be anything else. No options for "joining the aliens", up to and including reincarnation, will be allowed.

Well reasoned post, a rare thing to observe indeed :D Rep duly awarded.

There was obviously some tongue-in-cheeking going on but I would certainly pick their side given the opportunity...I guess this leaves me with one choice: steal some of the brains from the brain garden, study methods of integrating my own consciousness into Thargoid bodies. Kidnap Thargoid, beam my brain into him, learn Thargoid communication (verbal, chemical or through the medium of dance) and resume my plot to lead our scaly chitinous friends forward!

Okay, that might have been far-fetched. I guess plan C: steal keys to Thargoid ship, commandeer Thargoid ship...
 
I'm very much in the non-confrontation boat when it comes to Thargoids. Neither ally or enemy. I don't touch their toys, they leave me to my little corner of the bubble. It does make reading GalNet more enjoyable as an observer choosing not to get involved with them.
 
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So apparently, winter is coming.

A little bit funny if you ask me 'cos I seem to be having nothing but fun, fun, fun (in the Sun, Sun, Sun...).

In any case when our scaly (?) friends descend upon us, if the event descends into total war, I want in with the alien guys.

They kind of have the cool ships and frankly they're probably right. Humans are worth exterminating.

So yeah. Anyone else in with me on this? I would like to know if there is any kind of sacrifice we can make to the Thargoids from lore that shall appease them, and perhaps even consider me for a role as Doomsayer. I can run around inhabited space announcing the coming of our new overlords and pew-pewing the objectionable sorts.

So I take it, you would not refuse one of their ships...... Benedict !!
;)

Cheers Cmdr's
 
I'm pretty sure you would be hunted if you went around announcing that you where a alien sympathizer. I could see it work if you met up with them on a regular basis somewhere out of the way to feed them information. In return you would get commodities up front or territory after the invasion. Maybe if you work with them long enough you could get some of their low level tech.
 
Where is the applause button!!!:D

That did give me a chuckle...


I'm pretty sure you would be hunted if you went around announcing that you where a alien sympathizer. I could see it work if you met up with them on a regular basis somewhere out of the way to feed them information. In return you would get commodities up front or territory after the invasion. Maybe if you work with them long enough you could get some of their low level tech.

Bring the heat! It could be a little mini-event..."spot the Thargoid sympathiser and blow him up for a one-time only substantial credit voucher!"

As alien tech goes, not sure about that - I wonder what RNG love I will need to get a good piece... ;)

I kid, give me all dat sweet alien tech
 
You just explained why a war between Thargoids and Humans is very unlikely.

Sadly sci-fi cliches demand such a war and we will get some really farfetched explanation why the war started.

Most probable explanations will probably use very human concepts like religion, honor and revenge.

This is true. And I outlined two possible causes in my earlier post.

From the Human point of view, the "irrational cause of war" is likely to be physiological disgust: they remind us too much of insects, and giant insects instinctively creep us out. This, plus our "fear of the dark": if Human ships have been disappearing and an alien ship appears in the same region, then the Humans may simply shoot first and ask questions later. This is more or less what is believed to have started the last war.

From the Thargoid point of view, while it is difficult to "get inside the mind" of the Thargoids, I would surmise that they could well be appalled and disgusted by our society, not our biology. Eusocial life is all about control and prediction: a colony controls what it can, predicts what it can't control, destroys what it can neither predict nor control and either ignores or tolerates what it cannot destroy. In a universe that is to a large extent deterministic and predictable, Humans are a rogue, chaotic element, uncontrollable and unpredictable, which the universe would therefore be much better off without. To eusocial creatures, individualism would be a cancerous disease; so they may also be concerned that prolonged contact with humans may cause individual thargoids to "catch" individualism.

I just hope the war isn't caused by an IYBRD - an Irrational Yet Binding Religious Dictate. "Well, human, we were having a nice conversation here, but it's now 2 o'clock, and our beliefs require us to kill all the aliens within weapons range at 2 o'clock. Terribly sorry old chap, but that's how it is." That kind of lazy plot device is way too over-used in sci-fi.
 
Here. Proof that catgirls/catbois are canon in Elite.

Yes but since we aren't playing Elite it doesn't matter. I miss Edible Poets as much as the next guy. Frontier: Elite II did away with much of the original game's canon and created a whole new galaxy ... a galaxy that has been tweaked and retconned into the one we fly in while playing Elite: Dangerous. If there are catpeople out there ... we haven't met them yet.
 
Actually a war between us and the Thargoids(if they exist) will happen.

Although the galaxy is 400 billion stars, no one wants to hike 5 000 ly to a decent mining spot when one is 25ly away but covered in insectiod/human vermin(depending which species you are)
Much easier to blast the enemies into debris, and mine that as well. :p

Although a more basic cause of the war will be the force of natural selection in that our existence threatens the thargoid worlds.. maybe not now, maybe not in 100 yrs... but in 500 yrs time when our technology has risen to a level that will supplant theirs and so its much easier to slaughter us all now.

Just look at our own history of the european expansion between 1300 and 1900......

Bill

Oh and death to all traitors! :mad:
 
This is true. And I outlined two possible causes in my earlier post.

From the Human point of view, the "irrational cause of war" is likely to be physiological disgust: they remind us too much of insects, and giant insects instinctively creep us out. This, plus our "fear of the dark": if Human ships have been disappearing and an alien ship appears in the same region, then the Humans may simply shoot first and ask questions later. This is more or less what is believed to have started the last war.

From the Thargoid point of view, while it is difficult to "get inside the mind" of the Thargoids, I would surmise that they could well be appalled and disgusted by our society, not our biology. Eusocial life is all about control and prediction: a colony controls what it can, predicts what it can't control, destroys what it can neither predict nor control and either ignores or tolerates what it cannot destroy. In a universe that is to a large extent deterministic and predictable, Humans are a rogue, chaotic element, uncontrollable and unpredictable, which the universe would therefore be much better off without. To eusocial creatures, individualism would be a cancerous disease; so they may also be concerned that prolonged contact with humans may cause individual thargoids to "catch" individualism.

I just hope the war isn't caused by an IYBRD - an Irrational Yet Binding Religious Dictate. "Well, human, we were having a nice conversation here, but it's now 2 o'clock, and our beliefs require us to kill all the aliens within weapons range at 2 o'clock. Terribly sorry old chap, but that's how it is." That kind of lazy plot device is way too over-used in sci-fi.

Well that they have been pulling us out of hyperspace to shut our ships down and scan us usually doesn't go down well with humans. Because of course natural instinct is this is a bad thing.

Reminds be a bit of one of the very few Dr. Who episodes I actually enjoyed. Various crew and then the Doctor get possessed by an unknown thing which proceeds to learn more about our speech by copying things that people say. It could have been "academic" to this thing but of course, our natural reaction is to find a way to exterminate it...



Oh and death to all traitors! :mad:

Awh crap I thought it was "debt to all traitors". I was going to wait for the demands to come through the mail, and then I had Tyler Durden on speed dial...
 
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