All fights against AI = afterburn + FA off turning

[HurstLlama]

I'm selecting the EDL for your 20 quid donation

I'll make a five minute video of an enemy AI Vulture of Elite rating chasing me while being unable to overtake me as I go FA off reverse. How's that sound?

No good, the video idea not the subject of donation (who or what is EDL, by the way). We know what happens at the moment, the point is about how whether The Lady's algorithms will achieve what she says they will, so without those there is no bet.

 

[Mephane]

Who controls flight mechanics? Mike Evans? Have you heard anything about ships continuing to fly once their drives are shot out? It's a nuisance for pirates

Sorry to nag

It's the only correct way to make thrusters destroyed behave like FAOFF.

 

[Morbad]

No thrusters = no retros for FA autobreaking = sail off into the night forever at previous velocity (or as close to it as you can get with the magic speed cap in place).

 

[Mephane]

I would like to see npc ships keep any damage they take when they decide to run. It was deemed an exploit/bug and fixed that our shields go back instantly to 100% when we go into supercruise or hyperjump yet npc that, like in ranking missions, decide to run rather than stay and fight to the end comes back with 100% hull n shields etc when you find them again 30 secs after they went into supercruise.

Why should a npc be able to do this?

This issue files under "persistent NPCs", right now the same NPC is merely recreated, not kept intact between instance transitions when you chase it. I don't think SJA has any control over if/when persistent NPCs will be implemented.

 

[Space Dandy]

This issue files under "persistent NPCs", right now the same NPC is merely recreated, not kept intact between instance transitions when you chase it. I don't think SJA has any control over if/when persistent NPCs will be implemented.

Maybe not but she's the closet thing we have access to here on the forum... maybe she can pass it along. It's seriously immersion breaking.

I may not agree with all she is doing or rather how she is doing it but I applaud her hard work and efforts at making the game better as she sees it.

 

[Quineloe]

This is a bit of an exaggeration, as a Vulture can keep up an average speed of over 380m/s (and a peak of around 395) while boosting after someone, while maximum reverse speed (either with FA off or full reverse, full lateral and full vertical thrusters) is the same as unboosted forward speed. A combat Python is lucky to maintain 350m/s.

Still, even with such a speed differential, you are right, it forces the pursuer to move nearly straight at the target which negates the bulk of the maneuverability advantage...and this is the prime reason why it's bad to fly directly toward a reversing ship unless you match it's toughness and firepower, or are dramatically faster.



As it should.

I don't think it's an exaggaration. The Python maintains it's 350ms reverse, the Vulture comes in at let's say 390 average, that's 40ms difference.

That means if we start at 1500m, ie where lasers start to hurt, the Vulture has only closed in to 1100m after 10 seconds and 700 after 20 seconds and 30 seconds to get close enough to regain the maneuverability advantage.
That kind of time spent in front of a Python? Not very healthy.

 

[CMDR Hagglebeard]

I'm confused: If, while slogging around in reverse to fire in my brick of a Fed Drop Ship, I will no longer have any way to hit my target...since every target has better maneuverability than me..... how could I ever win a fight? I mean, even an eagle could kill me if I can't back up to gain any advantage. I'm not arguing since I am not a programmer, just not sure I see turning in reverse will no longer have any advantage, especially since its literally the ONLY move I have in a drop ship to hit anything that isn't a brick wall.

You'll have to fight larger ships like Condas, and use BnZ tactics if you want to use Gimballs/Fixed. With fat ships, you should really be using turrets.

 

[ocflyer]

If you are taking +10 minutes to kill a single viper, the problem is not with the game or the AI, I'm afraid.
.
Instead of putting all your pips to shield and weapons, try to put 2 pips on engines, and leave throttle on blue... A brand new world will unfold for you...

I'm at a loss to understand the notion that a pilot should put a certain number of pips to anything. During a fight, I find that I'm changing the energy distribution every few seconds. Is there anyone that sets the energy distribution to a specific setting and leaves it that way during the fight?

 

[wstephenson]

The problem is that SJA can just spawn the ships she wants to fight. In order for us to find that specific scenario of 2 elite vultures, we could spend an entire day and come up blank. So what wager did you have in mind?

Besides, reverse flying doesn't work against _multiple_ ships now as it is. Two vultures with fixed lasers can brute force any large ship in the game. I am talking about a 1vs1 fight, in which flying reverse right now offsets any maneuverability advantage in favor of the heavier ship. A single vulture may be able to overtake an Anaconda temporarily with boosting, but only for a moment. Against a python it's already pointless, as the Python in reverse is not that much slower than a boosting vulture.

So yes, I'm fairly certain that multiple Elite ships will be a threat (or already are now), even if you FA reverse off, but that's not because they figured out how to beat FA reverse, but because the odds in this game massively favor the side with greater numbers.

I don't think it's an exaggaration. The Python maintains it's 350ms reverse, the Vulture comes in at let's say 390 average, that's 40ms difference.

That means if we start at 1500m, ie where lasers start to hurt, the Vulture has only closed in to 1100m after 10 seconds and 700 after 20 seconds and 30 seconds to get close enough to regain the maneuverability advantage.
That kind of time spent in front of a Python? Not very healthy.

These scenarios are why I would love CQC to have a 'Proving Grounds' map where arbitrary sets of player and AI ships can be spawned against each other in open space. This would make the CQC investment more relevant to players who aren't interested in ranked PvP.

 

[Udayana]

If you did that it would be obvious you were screwing around. I'm asking you to prove what you say because as far as I'm concern the AI is behaving as intended and no change is going to be made to address whatever perceived issue you have unless you can prove to me and the dev team that there is in fact something fishy going on.

This game is not supposed to be a space combat sim in the same way as freespace. That was a single player story driven game with hundreds of cannon fodder AI, FPS style flight controls and was meant to be a very empowering and cool typical scifi space battle experience where you are the hero. I would hate for the NPC's in our game to be dumbed down to that level just so players can kill multiple ships every couple of minutes. They're supposed to act like real players would and that means trying to survive and avoid fire as much as dishing it out themselves.

While i agree that freespace, especially that particular mission on the video has a lot of cannon fodder AI, that game is all about fighters and bombers + player hero. But, there is something in that game that keeps me playing that game even today with my friends over the net. Protecting big ships from bombers with very fast interceptors, slow bombers with big firepower that needs escort to get near enough to deploy those bombs without it being picked off by fighters or defense turrets, flaks, etc. Feeling the flak ordnance hitting the ship shields.

Would be awesome if we could have something similar going on at combat zones. With flag ships fighting each other using big guns over distance, both sending in fighters both ways, with us commanders in between having to decide whether to take out some of the big ships defenses / guns, protecting it by intercepting bombers etc. Something to think about and encouraging team work (wings) in combat zones.

 

[Commandr Sam]

While i agree that freespace, especially that particular mission on the video has a lot of cannon fodder AI, that game is all about fighters and bombers + player hero. But, there is something in that game that keeps me playing that game even today with my friends over the net. Protecting big ships from bombers with very fast interceptors, slow bombers with big firepower that needs escort to get near enough to deploy those bombs without it being picked off by fighters or defense turrets, flaks, etc. Feeling the flak ordnance hitting the ship shields.

Would be awesome if we could have something similar going on at combat zones. With flag ships fighting each other using big guns over distance, both sending in fighters both ways, with us commanders in between having to decide whether to take out some of the big ships defenses / guns, protecting it by intercepting bombers etc. Something to think about and encouraging team work (wings) in combat zones.

When I first heard of the ED release this is what came to my mind as well (especially with the cap ship video).

If FD ever achieve this I would be a truely happy man.

 

[Yodafone]

AI are not capable of using flight assist off as far as I'm aware by the way.

they have ample control over the lateral and vertical thrusters anyway so they can achieve whatever manoeuvre they need to fight effectively without FAOff.

That's very interesting, I also was under the presumption that the higher ranked npcs did disengage flight assist to turn quicker (Elite Dropships are a good example), it makes sense now thinking about it because there is no break in the exhaust smoke emitted from their thrusters (I always wondered about why that was, but as you say they can perform the same manoeuvre with lateral/vertical thrusters), it's simply easier to do with fa disengaged for the player to implement that sort of quick turn and presumed the npc was doing the same. I've learnt something there about npc behaviour, thanks Mike.

 

[Exiton]

It seems to me NPCs are always aware of their surroundings, and it should not be the case. They should only see whatever there is to be seen through the cockpit and nothing more. I hate it when Python runs circles around me while being upside down.

 

[Grumpy181155]

Its still being sold on GoG and Steam. It still has an extremely dedicated modding team which has been constantly improving the game ever since it was released. The developers, Volition, would -kill- to be able to make a sequel. Almost had its own boardgame. Universal acclaim by credits and users on Metacritic.

Freespace 2 is simply one of the best, if the best, space combat sim ever. And to think Interplay was able to reacquire the license for it for only $7500!!! Argh.

Then why aren't you playing this vastly superior game instead of being here and annoying us.
P.S I would classify myself as an older and casual player and in my B/C specced Python I don't need 10 minutes to finish a Cobra.

 

[John Smallberries]

Its still being sold on GoG and Steam. It still has an extremely dedicated modding team which has been constantly improving the game ever since it was released. The developers, Volition, would -kill- to be able to make a sequel. Almost had its own boardgame. Universal acclaim by credits and users on Metacritic.

Freespace 2 is simply one of the best, if the best, space combat sim ever. And to think Interplay was able to reacquire the license for it for only $7500!!! Argh.

Loved the original Descent, never played Freespace. Try freeallegiance.org! I took a break from allegiance to try E, and after 3 weeks of not playing, got back into a game Sunday. My hands were shaking. Pure adrenaline, very long learning curve, which is partly why it is a dying game, unfortunately.

 

[Morbad]

I don't think it's an exaggaration. The Python maintains it's 350ms reverse, the Vulture comes in at let's say 390 average, that's 40ms difference.

The Python's maximum forward boost in a combat config is going to be in the 350m/s ballpark. It can't reverse at anywhere near that speed. You are looking at ~270 m/s peak sustainable reverse speed, and this is in a wide circle, not a straight line. This is also with four pips in ENG and the Vulture is less harmed by fewer ENG pips than the python is.

At best, you have short windows of time where you can reverse before being overtaken again.

The Vulture is probably the most dangerous ships to face in a Python, except maybe another Python. A Python can outrun an Anaconda. A Python can't out run a Clipper or FDL, but these ships aren't agile enough to stay out of a Python's firing arc. The Vulture is both fast enough to overtake a Python and nimble enough to be very difficult to hit by a python relying on fixed weapons (dual chaff should be a given for the Vulture).

With rough parity in skill, the Python should still be able to drive off or destroy the Vulture, more often than not, but it will likely take more damage and need to burn more SCBs to do so.

 

[Psycho Romeo]

Adapt.

This one has the answer.

 

[Vezdekot]

I can check my work phone for emails/reply to emails while keeping the other hand on the joystick, only because the fights are -that- slow. Besides,, if you -really- want to know the secret to winning, its not jousting or some other stupid bull tactic, its simply flying in reverse. Oh ho, so much tactics, so much strategy!

I just don't feel like flying in reverse

not only that.. First you need grind for bigger ship,then equip lot SCB and then when your shields is gone run to SC or combat log off,its Elite recipe for success. If you want advance tactic and skill dogfight game try "War Thunder" "Elite" is "Arcade" not "Dangerous".