All ships should have a dedicated fuel scoop slot built-in.

Mephane

Mephane
Preamble:
Let's start with what started out as my favourite ship way, way back when it was first added: Eagle MK II. Before Horizons, it was a workable if underpowered (especially: too slow) ship. Enter Horizons, enter the SRV. Let's not kid outselves, an SRV is mandatory for so much content. So, we could squeeze one into the Eagle, leaving us with a puny size 1 slot for a fuel scoop.

Has anyone else ever tried moving around with an Eagle at ~18Ly jump range, fuel for 3 jumps, and a size 1 fuel scoop? An FDL (able to use a class 4 fuel scoop on a class 3 tank) feels like the most majestic explorer in comparison.

So besides bringing it out from time to time to hunt a bit in some nearby RES and then put it back to storage and fly a "real" ship, the ship is dead.

And I haven't even put discovery scanners into the equation: with a huge proportion of even the bubble starting out as unexplored, not having an ADS at the very least feels crippling even while inside the bubble. Yes, it is workable - you can buy map data, you can use the nav beacon etc., but it all feels like using crutches and workarounds for what should not be an issue in the first place inside the bubble.

Other ships that suffer from this problem are the Sidewinder and the Imperial Eagle. Most other small ships have at least enough compartments of sufficient size to squeeze in a workable selection of modules, which I would define as shield generator, SRV bay, and a fuel scoop of at least the same size as the fuel tank.

This brings me to my solution for this issue: give every ship a dedicated fuel scoop hardpoint in addition to what they already got, which should always at least have the size as the fuel tank, preferrably however one larger. Especially ships with low jump ranges and small tanks can offset this a bit with a 1 class oversized fuel scoop, and while still being much slower in terms of interstellar travel times, at least not cripplingly slow; I am looking not just at the smaller ships like the Eagle here, but also the FDL and the Federal Corvette.
 

Crank Larson

Crank Larson
I don't agree. Choosing what modules you put in a ship is part of the game. There's no reason that every ship would have a fuel scoop, not everyone wants one. I don't use them if I'm mission running in an area for a while. It's all a question of priorities, and I personally like the current implementation.
 

Lukozer

Lukozer
And where will it end...? Dedicated hangar slot? Dedicated shield gen slot, etc etc...? Then who decides how big the fuel scoop slot is? Class 5 fuel scoop slot on an Anaconda? No thanks.

The crux of your argument is that you are unwilling to remove the SRV hangar from your Eagle therefore there needs to be a dedicated slot for fuel scoops so that you can outfit the ship the way YOU want. You're just going to have to deal with the limitations of your chosen ship. Choose a half decent fuel scoop, an SRV... or another ship. The game shouldn't need changing because a player is inflexible...
 

Nick Sticks

Nick Sticks
Crank Larson said:
I don't agree. Choosing what modules you put in a ship is part of the game. There's no reason that every ship would have a fuel scoop, not everyone wants one. I don't use them if I'm mission running in an area for a while. It's all a question of priorities, and I personally like the current implementation.
Click to expand...

I think he's asking for a dedicated fuel scoop hardpoint not the actual scoop, so you still don't have to fit it.
 

Shiro Akai

Shiro Akai
And I want my Adder become Millennium Falcon. I want to fit in: lots of cargo racks, medium passenger cabin, I want it to be the fastest ship which can do the Kessel Run in under 12 parsecs.

But I can't. Game is about choices and priorities. Sacrifices. If your tiny Eagle would receive fuels scoop then next would be what... afmu? No to ship homogenization. As much as I would turn Adder into Falcon, Python offers more means to do this. So what's the solution for that? I own 2 ships, both Adder and Python.

OP - you must pick what you want and play with options you have.
 

777Driver

777Driver
Generally ship my smaller low jump range racing and combat ships around, or fit a temporary scoop. The bigger expensive ships in my fleet either have plenty of juice in the tank 64T+ or have more than enough space for a scoop.

Can't say it has be a problem for me.
 

Nick Sticks

Nick Sticks
Mephane said:
Has anyone else ever tried moving around with an Eagle at ~18Ly jump range, fuel for 3 jumps, and a size 1 fuel scoop?
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I went to Colonia in a T7 with a jump range of less than 18Ly. Ok the tank holds enough fuel for more than 3 jumps but only just and I was scooping every 3 jumps anyway.
 

Ziljan

Ziljan
I agree, it seems very illogical that a module responsible for scooping hydrogen from outerspace would be mounted inside a ship. So having it occupy an Internal Compartment makes no sense. Logically it would have to be some kind of vent that opened up on the outside and took in more fuel the greater the area it covered. Since it adds zero mass, it should just be some kind of door or hatch, or series of doors or hatches with magnetic funnels leading towards the fuel tank. As you can see from the ship design, pretty much every ship has forward mounted exhaust, or retrograde thrusters which could double as fuel intakes.

From a gameplay point of view, I get that making outfitting priorities creates some much needed "tension" and sensation of player agency when outfitting your ship. However, I also think that since we have specialized Military slots and Commerce Slots, then why don't exploration ships have specialized Science Slots for fuel scoops and sensors? All of which should be externally mounted? I mean seriously, having internally mounted sensors makes as much sense as taking pictures with camera that never leaves the trunk of your car.
 
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Stealthie

Stealthie
Crank Larson said:
I don't agree. Choosing what modules you put in a ship is part of the game. There's no reason that every ship would have a fuel scoop, not everyone wants one. I don't use them if I'm mission running in an area for a while. It's all a question of priorities, and I personally like the current implementation.
Click to expand...

This.

ED is all about making choices and compromises.

I'm willing to bet that the OP wouldn't be willing to have the number of slots on every ship reduced by one in order to dedicate a slot to the fuel-scoop.
What you're asking for is, basically, an extra slot for the fuel-scoop.

Also, I usually like to fit oversized fuel-scoops on my ships, except for combat ships which usually get a minimal fuel-scoop for emergency use after a hasty exit.
I wouldn't want to be forced to use a given size of scoop which might be smaller, or larger, than I'd choose.
 

Crank Larson

Crank Larson
Nick Sticks said:
I think he's asking for a dedicated fuel scoop hardpoint not the actual scoop, so you still don't have to fit it.
Click to expand...

That wasn't my point, though. My point is that I like having to choose what modules I am going to have on a certain ship based on priority.

If there were a dedicated module that could only have a fuel scoop, then everyone most likely would fit one (they don't weigh anything, after all). We may then just as well get rid of refueling at space stations (who would bother?).
 

NeilF

NeilF
Mephane said:
Preamble:
Let's start with what started out as my favourite ship way, way back when it was first added: Eagle MK II. Before Horizons, it was a workable if underpowered (especially: too slow) ship. Enter Horizons, enter the SRV. Let's not kid outselves, an SRV is mandatory for so much content. So, we could squeeze one into the Eagle, leaving us with a puny size 1 slot for a fuel scoop.

Has anyone else ever tried moving around with an Eagle at ~18Ly jump range, fuel for 3 jumps, and a size 1 fuel scoop? An FDL (able to use a class 4 fuel scoop on a class 3 tank) feels like the most majestic explorer in comparison.

So besides bringing it out from time to time to hunt a bit in some nearby RES and then put it back to storage and fly a "real" ship, the ship is dead.

And I haven't even put discovery scanners into the equation: with a huge proportion of even the bubble starting out as unexplored, not having an ADS at the very least feels crippling even while inside the bubble. Yes, it is workable - you can buy map data, you can use the nav beacon etc., but it all feels like using crutches and workarounds for what should not be an issue in the first place inside the bubble.

Other ships that suffer from this problem are the Sidewinder and the Imperial Eagle. Most other small ships have at least enough compartments of sufficient size to squeeze in a workable selection of modules, which I would define as shield generator, SRV bay, and a fuel scoop of at least the same size as the fuel tank.

This brings me to my solution for this issue: give every ship a dedicated fuel scoop hardpoint in addition to what they already got, which should always at least have the size as the fuel tank, preferrably however one larger. Especially ships with low jump ranges and small tanks can offset this a bit with a 1 class oversized fuel scoop, and while still being much slower in terms of interstellar travel times, at least not cripplingly slow; I am looking not just at the smaller ships like the Eagle here, but also the FDL and the Federal Corvette.
Click to expand...

We have military type additional cargo slots for Shield Cell Banks or Hull Reinforcement. Why not in some ship dedicated utility type slots for things like Fuel Scoops, or a limpet controller?
 

[VR] Mad Mike

[VR] Mad Mike
Mephane said:
Preamble:
Let's start with what started out as my favourite ship way, way back when it was first added: Eagle MK II. Before Horizons, it was a workable if underpowered (especially: too slow) ship. Enter Horizons, enter the SRV. Let's not kid outselves, an SRV is mandatory for so much content. So, we could squeeze one into the Eagle, leaving us with a puny size 1 slot for a fuel scoop.

Has anyone else ever tried moving around with an Eagle at ~18Ly jump range, fuel for 3 jumps, and a size 1 fuel scoop? An FDL (able to use a class 4 fuel scoop on a class 3 tank) feels like the most majestic explorer in comparison.

So besides bringing it out from time to time to hunt a bit in some nearby RES and then put it back to storage and fly a "real" ship, the ship is dead.

And I haven't even put discovery scanners into the equation: with a huge proportion of even the bubble starting out as unexplored, not having an ADS at the very least feels crippling even while inside the bubble. Yes, it is workable - you can buy map data, you can use the nav beacon etc., but it all feels like using crutches and workarounds for what should not be an issue in the first place inside the bubble.

Other ships that suffer from this problem are the Sidewinder and the Imperial Eagle. Most other small ships have at least enough compartments of sufficient size to squeeze in a workable selection of modules, which I would define as shield generator, SRV bay, and a fuel scoop of at least the same size as the fuel tank.

This brings me to my solution for this issue: give every ship a dedicated fuel scoop hardpoint in addition to what they already got, which should always at least have the size as the fuel tank, preferrably however one larger. Especially ships with low jump ranges and small tanks can offset this a bit with a 1 class oversized fuel scoop, and while still being much slower in terms of interstellar travel times, at least not cripplingly slow; I am looking not just at the smaller ships like the Eagle here, but also the FDL and the Federal Corvette.
Click to expand...

i disagree..... *however* I would be all for different classes of ship having different bonus extra modules.

Asp explorer / DB explorer could have disco scanner slot and a fuel scoop
Asp scout / DB scout could have a fuel scoop....
the trade ships an extra cargo slot

(combat already have military slot)

but just giving all ships a fuel scoop.. i am not so sure.

right now imo the game is heavily weighted towards the general purpose ships being master of all trades if specced accordingly.... imo the above could give the specialists some more purpose.

You touch on one thing tho..... not having data inside the bubble..... Right now any system with a nav beacon you can scan for data without a scanner.. imo this is a huge step in the right direction however FD need to do more with it, so it feels like an important part of the game rather than something which is a waste of time and you can just get an ADS instead.

I think nav beacons should be a huge gathering point, as important potentially as stations, and that way you would not feel your time was wasted by having to drop there if you did not have an ADS... perhaps allow us to access a mission board there, with all bar trade and passsenger missions, as well as handing in bounty/exploration vouchers? The point here is, ships just flying in the bubble should not really need an ADS imo..... (surface scanner tho, would be needed for missions perhaps)


PS imo the anaconda should never have gotten a military slot, like that wasnt powerful enough already !

PPS however power creep with engineers is already insane - esp as the npcs dont get anywhere near as much engineer love - so i would counter the above carrots with dialing back the engineer stuff somewhat. (a god roll could still be a got roll but if each max was gimped by 50% that would be a start imo so it would just be a god roll on a smaller scale.)

this then also allows a little more powercreep for other features going forward such as crew, but i am veering OT now sorry.

TLDR i think ALL ships is a step too far, but some ships... sure :).
 
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Nick Sticks

Nick Sticks
Crank Larson said:
That wasn't my point, though. My point is that I like having to choose what modules I am going to have on a certain ship based on priority.

If there were a dedicated module that could only have a fuel scoop, then everyone most likely would fit one (they don't weigh anything, after all). We may then just as well get rid of refueling at space stations (who would bother?).
Click to expand...

I agree with you.
 

Stealthie

Stealthie
Ziljan said:
I agree, it seems very illogical that a module responsible for scooping hydrogen from outerspace would be mounted inside a ship.
Click to expand...

I dunno.

The components that allow regenerative braking on a car are internal.
Seems fairly plausible that the same sort of thing could apply with fuel-scooping.

Normally your thrusters are creating, erm, thrust but when you're scooping they're absorbing magical fuel-waves from the star and there's machinery inside your ship to convert that back into fuel.

Course, if FDev had seen fit to add some kind of "solar panel" to the inside of your cargo scoop and then animate deploying that whenever you scoop it might have been nice too.

Either way, it seems plausible that there'd be some gubbins inside your ship making it all work.
 

Grisnir

G
Stealthie said:
This.

ED is all about making choices and compromises.

I'm willing to bet that the OP wouldn't be willing to have the number of slots on every ship reduced by one in order to dedicate a slot to the fuel-scoop.
What you're asking for is, basically, an extra slot for the fuel-scoop.

Also, I usually like to fit oversized fuel-scoops on my ships, except for combat ships which usually get a minimal fuel-scoop for emergency use after a hasty exit.
I wouldn't want to be forced to use a given size of scoop which might be smaller, or larger, than I'd choose.
Click to expand...

There is no choice in a fuel scoop, you need one or you don't and every other module have to go if you need one
 

Hell Razor5543

H
<Humour> If we cannot have a dedicated fuel scoop slot would it be possible to have a fuel line of infinite length connected to the last Space Station we docked at? That way we will never run out of fuel. The only problem I can see is the Gordian Knots forming around each station (in the midst of gargantuan spiders webs of fuel lines). :D
 

andrewg_oz

andrewg_oz
So many people talking piously about making compromises about ship design have also been so unwilling to apply the same logic to materials inventory management...

I can sympathise with the OP, but I'm a big believer in having to make decisions and trade-offs. It's why I think the new inventory system is a bad idea.

OP, sorry for derailing your thread, but the hypocrisy was grating.
 

Grisnir

G
Stealthie said:
The choice lies in the size of the scoop.

If, for example, I was forced fit a C3 fuel-scoop to an AspX I'd never fly one again.
Click to expand...

So we mabye agree, that all ships get a small build in fuel scoop and if you want it faster, you must sacrifice a bigger slot [big grin]
 
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