Plus there will be a meta setup which everyone uses for that.Except for PvP. But I know it's a very much an edge-case in this game.
Am I missing something about ground missions? (grind/difficulty)
- Thread starter JonHarmon
- Start date
Yeah, I generally agree. But still, IMO, even in the last 2 years since OD's release, there've been too few PvP action for people to really have nailed the best meta for each loadout.
Still, I highly recommend Toqueville's guide about that:
- CMDR Toqueville’s Notes on Ground PVP
- Commander Toqueville’s Guide to Beginner Warmongering
Noise suppression on the L6 I'll agree is useless. There's no indoor environment where you can fire this thing and not be in the same room as the explosion.
Audio masking on the other hand gives you the ability to make a loud noise anywhere you like in a settlement and can be great for drawing attention away from somewhere. You can shoot barrels with a silenced weapon for the same effect, but that relies upon there being a barrel where you want one. It's also good for taking out a moving target at long range as you don't have to be as accurate with your leading as you would with an executioner, and there's no shot sound to make them break stride or raise their shields before you hit them.
If you want a useless L6 mod, I'd argue the scope is it. The miniscule magnification boost you get out of it is barely even noticeable compared to stock.
Really? You guys know Headshot is an option.
There's no kill like overkill.Really? You guys know Headshot is an option.
Try some smuggling missions CMDR JonHarmon
I have a scope on mine when dealing with Revenants.
Night Vision I'd argue increases your effectiveness. Unless I'm doing a CZ I rarely use the shield so upgrading a suit to G5 isn't really worth it.
I've got scope on my bug hunter. Yes it's a small effect but it helps for longer range shots against revenants. I even have faster reload, despite that being really, really minimal. There's almost no point having any other two mods (extended mag and faster handling are the only really useful ones imo) so... I just got them. Essentially, the thing would be absolutely fine at its job with no mods and g4.
As I said, I generally think these discussions are less useful. You can almost find a point to any mod and they're mostly low enough impact that it means little.
It's a big reason I think engineering in EDO isn't such a big deal compared to edh, where combat is enormously impacted by mods.
Just remember, a big grain of salt for the more persuasive (style) advice.
I say just use whatever duds you got and keep an eye open at the shops, and not let it be the focus. Cruise around looking in podunk pioneer supplies for grade 2 and 3 items, and feel the thrill when you find them!
I disagree that odyssey engineering is inconsequential. Yet, the same as with ships, I believe a new player might be very well to ignore engineering except: except know that you will thank yourself later for all the tasty materials you do build up along the way.
Carrying contraband and even regular deliveries can get you getting in and out of joints, while you focus on just that, and build up your reputation with the mission givers.
And the ground CZ is a very friendly place to learn to shoot. Take a vacation at your local Front Lines desk ! Eh, persuasive enough?
Have a nice day!
I say just use whatever duds you got and keep an eye open at the shops, and not let it be the focus. Cruise around looking in podunk pioneer supplies for grade 2 and 3 items, and feel the thrill when you find them!
I disagree that odyssey engineering is inconsequential. Yet, the same as with ships, I believe a new player might be very well to ignore engineering except: except know that you will thank yourself later for all the tasty materials you do build up along the way.
Carrying contraband and even regular deliveries can get you getting in and out of joints, while you focus on just that, and build up your reputation with the mission givers.
And the ground CZ is a very friendly place to learn to shoot. Take a vacation at your local Front Lines desk ! Eh, persuasive enough?
Have a nice day!
Engineering in EDO is mostly inconsequential. Upgrading isn't. And upgrading is hugely more beneficial than engineering.
In EDH, it's the opposite (but upgrading to an A class ship is so comparatively trivial, there's no reason to not do it). If you play a new commander, try combat without engineering at all. I did this very recently with one of my accounts. As soon as you hit Novice (which you can get even without firing a single shot in a ship, because combat rank goes up with on foot kills that aren't in a CZ; amazing, huh?) you will get randomised pirates that are competent and higher, all with a fair amount of engineering on them by default. Try one of the massacre missions with the "they know you're coming" twist and, if you get spotted, you'll get attacked by Expert ranked ships (that, just in case you didn't know, will constantly respawn as you kill them). In my A rated, non modified Cobra, I was able to just about take one down after a long... LOOOONG fight and then lost my ship shortly after despite trying to flee. Against the competent pirate that interdicted me, my shields were down before I'd even scratched theirs. I'm no new player to ship combat and have been playing the game since it launched. That's one measly competent pirate, probably worth about 20k credits or so. Imagine trying to actually bounty hunt against them? If you engineer fully, it will become trivial. I mean, I have repeated this many times here but I really don't think I should: everyone who plays EDH as a combat pilot should know that engineering has a significant impact on the difficulty and ignoring it would dramatically shorten your scope for content (and ignoring engineering altogether also dramatically reduces the fun of the game - and I don't mean that because I love engineering, because I do not, but I say it because a fully engineered ship is way more fun to fly than one with zero engineering)
Engineering in EDH is essential if you wish to play any combat role as an average player; the game ensures this is the case by its extremely steep difficulty curve. Contrasting to that is EDO, where it's only important to upgrade your gear (so, the equivalent to buying an A rated ship, albeit more of a faff to do as it's not only credits that you need). A fully engineered suit and weapon isn't required at all to defeat the majority of the most difficult scenarios in EDO*. You can compete in a high intensity CZ in just G1 gear (although it's less efficient, you can just avoid damage by playing carefully and it just takes more shots to kill your targets) - this is something I was able to do just fine with my new commander, racking up over 1m credits in kills and maybe only dying 0-1 times per round. Upgrading to G5 will make this much faster but is not essential in any way. Engineering is just nice to have, allowing you to spend more time on target, less time reloading and it gives you a touch more survivability (nothing compared to just upgrading the suit to 5).
A G3 set of gear, bought entirely from shops, will be enough for most players to enjoy all content in EDO and be fairly efficient.
I sort of get your point (we do the content to get the materials to upgrade, so why not enjoy that?) but I actually think the way they've designed that self-fulfilling loop isn't the best way of doing things. I'd have preferred it if they had allowed us to also upgrade our ships via on foot (in much the same way) as well, giving a whole new method of approaching the massively grindy EDH grind loop that doesn't involve scooping up cannisters in an HGE over and over again. But that's besides the point being made...
And that was, there's not really any "best" mods in EDO and you can more or less pick whatever you like and it won't impact your game very much. It's useful to know which mods are somewhat better than others but even a G5 with "dud" mods in it is still better than a G4 with 3 "better" mods. The conversation can perhaps mislead some new players into thinking it's complicated and it's just not.
Contrast that to EDH, where it really can matter a whole deal what mods you get, and the conversation has greater benefit (and is way more complicated).
* This statement doesn't include the horrendous 6-12 scavenger drop ship attacks you get on some of the most basic missions like impact sites, where there's no cover. These are extremely tough to defeat as a new player and I count these as an outlier because I actually think they need to be toned down by a long way. But in this scenario, engineering isn't going to help you much anyway.
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First up, we'll skip past the "un-engineered" bit because that's a pretty obvious amber flag that you're missing the point of my post.
Secondly, I said "for a new player" (and this is the OP). The scarab can be powerful in this scenario but scavengers can destroy a Scarab very quickly. It can still be just as risky for a new player. That said, assuming the new player knows this and can adeptly control the SRV in this scenario, can get to the SRV after a drop before the sharpshooters strip its shields and then proceed to kill them all without losing it...
... this is still besides the point, isn't it? I'm talking about how on foot mods do or do not impact game play. I isolated this scenario as the OP mentioned it and it's easily the toughest scenario for new players to encounter (and they can encounter it on day one of playing with no warning, as it'll happen on threat 1-2 missions). Mods will not impact this scenario enough to make it trivial for on foot players and they won't help new players enough compared to upgrading the gear. I'm not talking about the SRV (or dumb fires, which the OP knows about). This reply feels a little like arguing for the sake of it, more so as you already gave this advice to the OP in your initial response. It's good advice, potentially (but I still disagree that it's an overnight fix for new players doing these missions, more so those that don't want to use the SRV and just want to use on foot weapons). But why are you giving it to me?
You know that I know this.
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Hey that's just like, your opinion, CMDR Ydiss
And I sort of don't get you why you mistook my point as that, though
My point was take, in this specific instance your, persuasive opinion promotion spiels with a grain of salt. More directly, form one's own opinion. And, being new to the (Odyssey side) game, don't worry about the engineering. Don't worry about the upgrades either. Just keep an eye out at the store. Get the experience on the ground. I recommend the front lines desk
Then, CMDR JonHarmon, then (I predict) you will be superior at handling yourself when things go sideways at the settlement. Due to that bit of seasoning and confidence, and more perspective on your past attempts, I tender that things will not go sideways so often anyway.
And some weeks or months or whatever down the road you will have, I think then, more of a handle on how YOU use the equipment and on what YOU love to do on foot. Thus, be qualified to judge exactly what you want in your on-foot gear.
Excuse me for anyway ranting after a fashion here.
Good luck CMDR JonHarmon and I hope you regale us of your exciting exploits here
And I sort of don't get you why you mistook my point as that, though
My point was take, in this specific instance your, persuasive opinion promotion spiels with a grain of salt. More directly, form one's own opinion. And, being new to the (Odyssey side) game, don't worry about the engineering. Don't worry about the upgrades either. Just keep an eye out at the store. Get the experience on the ground. I recommend the front lines desk
Then, CMDR JonHarmon, then (I predict) you will be superior at handling yourself when things go sideways at the settlement. Due to that bit of seasoning and confidence, and more perspective on your past attempts, I tender that things will not go sideways so often anyway.
And some weeks or months or whatever down the road you will have, I think then, more of a handle on how YOU use the equipment and on what YOU love to do on foot. Thus, be qualified to judge exactly what you want in your on-foot gear.
Excuse me for anyway ranting after a fashion here.
Good luck CMDR JonHarmon and I hope you regale us of your exciting exploits here
Yeh I get what you're saying. But I'm not arguing with that, at all and didn't specifically disagree with anything except what I quoted. I was responding specifically to what you said about my comments (because I'm the person saying that discussion around engineering mods in EDO isn't that important). We agree on that part, I think but you're saying engineering isn't inconsequential... I disagree.
Upgrading is the important part (and I agree that one good way to do that is via the shops). Engineering (using the engineers) is just about as close to "do what you want" as you can get. Perhaps not strictly without any consequence but the consequences are so minimal compared to upgrading (which you need to do first anyway) that it might as well be zero in the context of the OP's issues.
I'm stressing for the OP that it's important to upgrade, less so to focus too much on worrying about what mods to get. It simplifies the goals for them. The mods you can choose add, at best, personal flavour, specifically when discussing the maverick suit.
I'm thinking more on what the OP was talking about (such as the scenario where a drop ship comes along and throws up to 6 enemies at you, often repeating again before you've killed those 6 enemies; in the context that they already know you can cheese it with dumb fire missiles) and wanted to make it clear that, for him specifically, focusing on upgrading is important but all the chat about engineering mods is mostly noise and before I'd jumped into this discussion it had been, apparently, diverted to a "I think this mod is best/useless" discussion. I mean, we have comments telling him to not bother with extra backpack... Why? How is that going to help him? How will it hinder him? If he's upgraded a suit and can slot it in, he's already taken the important step (upgrading the suit). Backpack will just make material gathering more efficient for him. Replacing that with anything else isn't going to make much of a difference at all.
So, maybe you don't disagree with me there but your comment appeared to be doing that. If that's not the case then we can just stop talking about it.
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(Not particularly related to main topic but I wanted to say a thing or two to this anyway.)
While I agree with your points in regards to human PvE combat, I’m going to add the Thargoid factor to it. Namely interceptors.
Certainly, it’s not ‘newbie content’, and I’m not bringing it up for that point. But rather, the fact that it sort of digs Frontier into a hole where - seemingly - ship engineering ends up having to take those enemies into account, rather than separating both progression curves from each other.
Cyclops? Yeah, you can probably kill it with relative ease using non-engineered ships with an appropriate loadout and/or basic AX weapons, once you have some practice. Anything above, though, and you’ll quickly get it handed to you(they can even with fully engineered ships). So you need engineering, at the very least for your internal modules(weapons are more so optional due to being separate, beam lasers aside), but that engineering then also needs to be taken into account for human NPC ship balance as well.
(Kind of countering my own point here, but Frontier could also simply have made the human NPC curve a bit less steep. I don’t remember much of my starting out in pre-Odyssey days… but I distinctly recall having pirate ships suddenly become three times more difficult after not a lot of playtime.)
I would also dread the complaints of grind that appeared if Thargoid stuff were to become such a separate thing… it already is in all but the use of engineers for internal (and utility) modules. I certainly can’t say what experience I had from fighting human NPCs was of much use to me against a Thargoid [Interceptor].
I think the settlement stealth stuff is the best thing in the game by miles and if you find yourself endlessly trying to find some rare item it's worth thinking that it's the gameplay that's the reward rather than whatever you get to engineer at the end of it (which will likely make the missions less engaging).
It can be frustrating as things can go wrong quickly and spectacularly with a chain reaction of disaster if you get something wrong, but it's worth it for when you get it right.
It can be frustrating as things can go wrong quickly and spectacularly with a chain reaction of disaster if you get something wrong, but it's worth it for when you get it right.
It is the best part of the game for me, too.
Upgrading is important if you want to survive combat better but engineering isn't required at all to be able to complete non-combat missions. They are very challenging (and, no sliding scale for new players at all, unless you restrict yourself to dull transport missions exclusively to make very... very slow money and gain almost no materials for upgrades). Not knowing how things work is a big part of that and there's almost no information in the game to help with this. Despite this new player wall, many settlement missions remain challenging no matter how well equipped or experienced you are and sometimes it's enough to just enjoy playing a game without necessarily progressing; just enjoy the challenge.
I'd still say progression is important and I don't think Elite really does this in a first class way, across the whole game (I rarely play the game unless I have some reason to progress something). But I agree that settlements (in general, including CZs, missions or without) are easily the best actual content in the game by a long margin.
@JonHarmon the best way to learn how to complete these missions, if you don't want to use trial and error (and fail a lot) is to watch some guides... and yes I have some, really hate self-plugging but I made the videos because I had to spend days working out how everything worked (this included a ton of failure, as I deliberately tried various theories repeatedly to see what does and doesn't work; I didn't just know how to play the game on day one) and nothing in the game told me how to do it so I wanted to try to share the things I discovered. So feel free to check them out (caveat, the game has changed in some ways so my older videos may have one or two points out of date). But I'm not the only resource. There are lots of really good content creators on YouTube who can offer help on how to handle EDO missions. So I'd say don't even watch my videos, just search for Elite Dangerous Odyssey guides.
The thing about the outside-of-settlement missions is that while there's no cover, there's also no legal or mission ramifications for getting straight back into your ship and proceeding to turn the general surrounding area into that one scene from apocalypse now.
I honestly think those missions could benefit from toning down the scavs a little but at the same time making the mission object destructible so you can't just carpet bomb the entire site. (make the dropships wanted though, jeez)
I learned how to play the missions (and love them so much) because of your videos. So big thanks to you for your superb efforts!