Ammo synthesis needs to be rebalanced so it serves its intended purpose

[Earth Ultimatum IV.]

Ammo synthesis should not be used as a straight advantage to damage to gain upper hand in fights.
Instead it should serve its actual purpose, which is to restock ammo.


So, the damage bonus coming from synthesis should be reverted:

1. Basic synthesis comes with a -30% damage penalty, since it's a quick and crude restock for emergencies. Also doesn't have any timer.

2. Standard synthesis will have -15% damage, compared to station-sold ammo. Short timer, 2-3 seconds.

3. Premium comes with no damage penalty, since its a advanced restock matching the quality of station sold ammo, but comes with a timer of 5+ seconds.

On top of that, show a small red icon on enemy player's ship HUD if his synthesis was cancelled by your shots during the timer, and a quick short blue icon that shows up if your enemy finished a ammo synthesis.


Decrease the amount of materials needed for ammo synthesis to compensate, remove some rare materials from premium and standard.
Maybe even add alternative ammo synthesis options, that use mined ores (so one can restock his ammo by carrying a refinery and a mining laser, in asteroid fields).

 

[zverochert]

Completely agree on that. I don't like a situation in pvp, when cmdr who have enough time to grid materials for every battle have advantage over me.

 

[coca_fr]

Except you have to grind for the materials.

Grinding for basic ammunition is easy but standard or premium ammunition synthesis requiere a lot of materials grinding.

Things are ok as they are now. It's not like it's unbalancing the game... the game is already totally unbalanced.

 

[theblackvegetable]

I agree with this suggestion. The problem in PvP is not merely players getting a damage advantage by using premium synthesis, but also (and perhaps even more), that players that choose ammo-limited builds negate the downsides of this build by spamming synthesis. One example are double-shot frags, which do more damage than overcharged, but a lot less damage per unit of ammo.

If this suggestion is implemented, ammo conservation will be a more important factor in 'fair' PvP, as well as strategies to invite your opponent to waste his ammo.

 

[Earth Ultimatum IV.]

Except you have to grind for the materials.

Grinding for basic ammunition is easy but standard or premium ammunition synthesis requiere a lot of materials grinding.

And? Read the last paragraph:

Decrease the amount of materials needed for ammo synthesis to compensate, remove some rare materials from premium and standard.

Things are ok as they are now. It's not like it's unbalancing the game... the game is already totally unbalanced.

No they're not okay. The only well-done and in-deph thing in this game is ship outfitting and customisation, but people use premium ammo to avoid rules of engineering and get full advantages with no downsides. For example long range cannons with premium ammo have both high damage and are super easy to aim, or focused PAs with premium ammo remove the decreased DPS since they fill up the hole with premium ammo. This is going against the intended rules of ship outfitting and most importantly, it's completly off from the intended purpose of synthesis.

Just because the game is "unbalanced" doesn't mean we should give up. Infact, things are getting balanced regularly, like the recent heat cannon nerf.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

So, the damage bonus coming from synthesis should be reverted:

Yes, I like this.

Decrease the amount of materials needed for ammo synthesis to compensate, remove some rare materials from premium and standard.
Maybe even add alternative ammo synthesis options, that use mined ores (so one can restock his ammo by carrying a refinery and a mining laser, in asteroid fields).

With a mining laser but no refinery you can already mine the materials needed for basic and (with a lot of patience) standard synthesis - though slower than SRV work would be because you'll get a lot of junk refinery fragments, and can't tell the materials present in the ring just by scanning it.

 

[PeLucheuh]

Ammo synthesis should not be used as a straight advantage to damage to gain upper hand in fights.
Instead it should serve its actual purpose, which is to restock ammo.


So, the damage bonus coming from synthesis should be reverted:

1. Basic synthesis comes with a -30% damage penalty, since it's a quick and crude restock for emergencies. Also doesn't have any timer.

2. Standard synthesis will have -15% damage, compared to station-sold ammo. Short timer, 2-3 seconds.

3. Premium comes with no damage penalty, since its a advanced restock matching the quality of station sold ammo, but comes with a timer of 5+ seconds.

On top of that, show a small red icon on enemy player's ship HUD if his synthesis was cancelled by your shots during the timer, and a quick short blue icon that shows up if your enemy finished a ammo synthesis.


Decrease the amount of materials needed for ammo synthesis to compensate, remove some rare materials from premium and standard.
Maybe even add alternative ammo synthesis options, that use mined ores (so one can restock his ammo by carrying a refinery and a mining laser, in asteroid fields).

100% agree!

Also the actual system is not logic : How a ship with less infrastructure and equipments can provide premium ammo and not a station ? Premium ship ammo = station ammo quality is the way to go.

 

[Earth Ultimatum IV.]

Also the actual system is not logic : How a ship with less infrastructure and equipments can provide premium ammo and not a station ? Premium ship ammo = station ammo quality is the way to go.

This ^^ I'm amazed the immersion crowd is not triggered over the current system. It makes no sense.

 

[EvE4evah]

Agreed, OP.

Edit: At first, I wanted to argue that the damage bonus is a fair reward for time spent gathering Premium Ammo mats. Then again, said bonus is not related to combat skills at all. The same way we campaign for improving Engineer accessibility and maybe nerfing god Rolls, we should shun mechanics that give non-negligible edges in combat albeit not being combat related.

 

[MBaldelli]

Except you have to grind for the materials.

Grinding for basic ammunition is easy but standard or premium ammunition synthesis requiere a lot of materials grinding.

Things are ok as they are now. It's not like it's unbalancing the game... the game is already totally unbalanced.

I agree with this 1,000,000%. The material requirements for standard and premium require rare and very rare materials. The OP's post reads as nothing more than typical player sadism ...for the realism/makes the universe feel alive.

No... thank... you.

If you're going to suggest this sort of thing -- even with the decreased material requirements, bring back missiles being normal powered (read: overpowered by the player base that whinged about dying quickly by missile demanding it nerfed).

That's what missiles do.. They destroy things. Spectacularly

 

[Shadowdancer]

The intended purpose is to extend the time one can stay in combat without having to retreat just because ammo ran out. Having a penalty on using it (especially one as stupidly harsh as proposed) does not seem conducive to that goal.

 

[Earth Ultimatum IV.]

I agree with this 1,000,000%. The material requirements for standard and premium require rare and very rare materials. The OP's post reads as nothing more than typical player sadism ...for the realism/makes the universe feel alive.

No... thank... you.

If you're going to suggest this sort of thing -- even with the decreased material requirements, bring back missiles being normal powered (read: overpowered by the player base that whinged about dying quickly by missile demanding it nerfed).

That's what missiles do.. They destroy things. Spectacularly

Except, missiles absolutely destroy everything shieldless and nothing helps, not even three MRPs, not even AFMU, nothing. Get hit by missiles a few times, say goodbye to your guns, drives and utilities. They do exactly what they're supposed to, and they're very strong at doing so.
What needs a buff are dumbfires though.

Also, another one who didn't read the paragraph. Tone down the premium material requirements to compensate for the suggested changes.

 

[EvE4evah]

The intended purpose is to extend the time one can stay in combat without having to retreat just because ammo ran out. Having a penalty on using it (especially one as stupidly harsh as proposed) does not seem conducive to that goal.

Then we should balance it separate for PvP and PvE.

 

[MBaldelli]

Except, missiles absolutely destroy everything shieldless and nothing helps, not even three MRPs, not even AFMU, nothing. Get hit by missiles a few times, say goodbye to your guns, drives and utilities. They do exactly what they're supposed to, and they're very strong at doing so.
What needs a buff are dumbfires though.

Also, another one who didn't read the paragraph. Tone down the premium material requirements to compensate for the suggested changes.

Actually it used to be less. 1 salvo would destroy a ship that was unarmoured. It's been nerfed that three salvos do the same job.

The AMFU was never intended to being a panacea for the heat of battle with players suffering from a bad case of bullet spraying. Your suggestion involves player sadism because people have learned how to do it and you haven't.

I read it, as it states here: ...If you're going to suggest this sort of thing -- even with the decreased material requirements... Tone down the attitude because you're finding disagreement with your suggestion.

 

[znôrt]

the whole ammo synthesis is just daft grind-to-win. people love it these days because they love to have an edge over others in pvp after having ground for hours in pve, big applause. it's unsporting and detrimental to the combat model. publishers love it because the grind can be counted as content and player activity. i would completely get rid of it, but since that seems unlikely, your suggestion seems fair and has my (irrelevant, i know) support.

restocking could be done at station with standard ordnance stored in the cargo bay (yes, cargo modules would be the drawback) and a convenient delay for the ammo to be loaded.

 

[besieger]

Actually it used to be less. 1 salvo would destroy a ship that was unarmoured. It's been nerfed that three salvos do the same job.

The AMFU was never intended to being a panacea for the heat of battle with players suffering from a bad case of bullet spraying. Your suggestion involves player sadism because people have learned how to do it and you haven't.

I read it, as it states here: ...If you're going to suggest this sort of thing -- even with the decreased material requirements... Tone down the attitude because you're finding disagreement with your suggestion.

First off, stop with the insults... second OP's idea is great and this is coming from someone who uses premium to sometimes win fights, the reload system was designed to keep you in a fight nothing more nothing less instead we got a system that does let you stay in a fight but also gives you an advantage over others not just because of a potential 30% increase in damage(About half of a OC mod!) but it also lets you use ammo dependent weapons in ways that should not be possible.

An example:

A Corvette with over 3,000MJ of shield with stock resists vs A Clipper with 4 Frag cannons, Double shot with screening shells. all kinetic damage. this Clipper can output upwards of 1,000DPS before any kind of reload... now imagine this sustained!
I can down a corvette in under 50sec with this, I can alpha through cell banks and healing, all without reloads. there is no build a corvette can use that can alpha me in a Clipper like that.

with the above example you can see how adding reloads into the mix would only make things worse, I did some tests to back up this example too. I created am exploration Clipper sat out at maia and waited for CMDRs looking for me to come, and they did. out over over 80 CMDRs ALL of them where killed. and I was only able to do it with reloads mid-fight, without the reloads I would of lost many of the fights.

Below are multiple examples of this build in action killing these CMDRs that came for me.

[video=youtube;ZKnCXG6QjZs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKnCXG6QjZs[/video]
[video=youtube;FlMt_UzO8cs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlMt_UzO8cs[/video]
[video=youtube;u1z1PY1T_JI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1z1PY1T_JI&t=3s[/video]
[video=youtube;mrSjrQoKmJs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrSjrQoKmJs[/video]

 

[akhtemstr]

Ammo synthesis should not be used as a straight advantage to damage to gain upper hand in fights.
Instead it should serve its actual purpose, which is to restock ammo.


So, the damage bonus coming from synthesis should be reverted:

1. Basic synthesis comes with a -30% damage penalty, since it's a quick and crude restock for emergencies. Also doesn't have any timer.

2. Standard synthesis will have -15% damage, compared to station-sold ammo. Short timer, 2-3 seconds.

3. Premium comes with no damage penalty, since its a advanced restock matching the quality of station sold ammo, but comes with a timer of 5+ seconds.

On top of that, show a small red icon on enemy player's ship HUD if his synthesis was cancelled by your shots during the timer, and a quick short blue icon that shows up if your enemy finished a ammo synthesis.


Decrease the amount of materials needed for ammo synthesis to compensate, remove some rare materials from premium and standard.
Maybe even add alternative ammo synthesis options, that use mined ores (so one can restock his ammo by carrying a refinery and a mining laser, in asteroid fields).

100% agree with you!

 

[coca_fr]

Impressive.

Did you use only premium amunition ?
With normal amunition would you have loose many fights ?