Amusing concept. (A look at how CQC could be improved)

[Deleted member 110222]

In ESO, you have to play PvP to get skills that are pretty much essential for dungeons and trials.

As a long-time ED player with a huge amount of experience with the community, I can't help but think about what would happen if PvP were required in ED.

The differences I've noticed is that, it seems, by making PvP essential for PvE skills, you somewhat ironically get LESS people bemoaning PvP.

Granted, there's no rebuy in ESO and it handles PvP much better. We have Cyrodiil War, Imperial City, Battlegrounds and finally, Duels. The choice for PvP is huge.

To focus on Battlegrounds. It's easy to compare this ESO feature to ED's CQC. Except... Battlegrounds is arena-based PvP that's successful.

In my opinion, if CQC offered bigger rewards in the main ED world, it would be significantly more popular.

The easy solution would be to offer materials to successful CQC players. It would promote competition, and give "meaning" to the mode. Personally, I'd go one step further and offer things like skins to the best players. The bobbleheads in Squadron leaderboards aren't enough IMO.

I might even suggest free ships & modules as prizes. We get the equivalent in ESO (gear = ships/modules) as rewards from Battlegrounds.

It's worth noting, that because PvP offers real rewards in ESO, barely anyone complains. Actually most of my ESO friend list was met in Battlegrounds.

Yes, I'm saying ED would benefit from semi-essential PvP, provided that said PvP takes place in an arena mode. It works well in ESO, and ESO is a much, much bigger game.

Food for thought.

 

[Deleted member 110222]

Interesting move of thread location. I'm not disputing it either. Makes sense.

 

[Sylow]

Skins and decals: way to go. I'd really like that. Just like in your ESO example, you can't get PvP titles and costumes without being successful. (participation alone doesn't cut it, else i would have them already... *g*) So when you see somebody with such an outfit or a title, you know he is a capable PvP player.

The equivalent for that probably would be a CQC rank which can't only go up, but actually indicates where on the ranking you currently stand. It would actually represent your skill, instead of how much time you were able to invest.

On free ships and weapons, i wouldn't like that so much. Rewarding participation is one thing. Enforcing it to keep up is something completely different.

Note on your ESO example: I tend to sell a lot of what i get in Cyrodil at my trade guild. Which means, other players can buy and use the gear, without ever entering Cyrodil. (They keep sending me the stuff with title "rewards for the worthy". I know no other way of finding a worthy person than selling it... *g*)

This is a huge balancing factor. Effectively the gear is available to everybody, it's just a matter of money. Either you fight, or you earn the money elsewhere and buy the stuff. I consider this to be an important aspect.

As player to player trade is not available and unlikely to come in ED, i would not like CQC rewards which offer gameplay advantages in the normal game. But the possibility to show off your merits should be a good incentive.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

The equivalent for that probably would be a CQC rank which can't only go up, but actually indicates where on the ranking you currently stand. It would actually represent your skill, instead of how much time you were able to invest.

There is one of those - it's mostly hidden but can be dug out of the verbose netlog if you're really curious - used for CQC matchmaking.

It's not perfect - it tends to overscore absolute beginners for a few matches until they've been blown up a bit, and it can be gamed by refusing to play or complete matches you think you'll lose - but it's not bad for matching up regular honest players into reasonably even teams.

 

[Deleted member 110222]

Skins and decals: way to go. I'd really like that. Just like in your ESO example, you can't get PvP titles and costumes without being successful. (participation alone doesn't cut it, else i would have them already... *g*) So when you see somebody with such an outfit or a title, you know he is a capable PvP player.

The equivalent for that probably would be a CQC rank which can't only go up, but actually indicates where on the ranking you currently stand. It would actually represent your skill, instead of how much time you were able to invest.

On free ships and weapons, i wouldn't like that so much. Rewarding participation is one thing. Enforcing it to keep up is something completely different.

Note on your ESO example: I tend to sell a lot of what i get in Cyrodil at my trade guild. Which means, other players can buy and use the gear, without ever entering Cyrodil. (They keep sending me the stuff with title "rewards for the worthy". I know no other way of finding a worthy person than selling it... *g*)

This is a huge balancing factor. Effectively the gear is available to everybody, it's just a matter of money. Either you fight, or you earn the money elsewhere and buy the stuff. I consider this to be an important aspect.

As player to player trade is not available and unlikely to come in ED, i would not like CQC rewards which offer gameplay advantages in the normal game. But the possibility to show off your merits should be a good incentive.

You make a good point.

Yes, the lack of trading is an issue that would be problematic for ED. I suppose a buff to credit rewards would be a compromise?

What is your opinion on material rewards though?

You can get them with PvE already.

A material reward from CQC would just be an additional method. Certainly, I can imagine a fair amount of players would welcome it as a break from the USS grind, especially if USS remains an option. Choice is good.

 

[metatheurgist]

No to real rewards for CQC without the equivalent risk of loss that is found in actual game. When you can lose your ship or rebuy, then yes. Otherwise, of course it would be popular with actual rewards. Just look at how well the Void Opal rush is going.

 

[Deleted member 110222]

No to real rewards for CQC without the equivalent risk of loss that is found in actual game. When you can lose your ship or rebuy, then yes. Otherwise, of course it would be popular with actual rewards. Just look at how well the Void Opal rush is going.

It's because that loss doesn't exist in ESO's Battlegrounds that the mode there is popular!

Look I know some people love the risk, but the reason people log is to avoid paying credits.

Do you really think that people would refrain from logging if money loss existed in CQC?

Sorry dude, but rebuy mechanics don't work in arena games. ED is not special in this regard.

 

[Sylow]

There is one of those - it's mostly hidden but can be dug out of the verbose netlog if you're really curious - used for CQC matchmaking.

It's not perfect - it tends to overscore absolute beginners for a few matches until they've been blown up a bit, and it can be gamed by refusing to play or complete matches you think you'll lose - but it's not bad for matching up regular honest players into reasonably even teams.

Yes, it exists. What i mean is: use it for bragging rights in the main game.
- We could have something like "titles". Yes, that's be yet one more line in the character info, but i think many people would use it.
- It could be decals.
- It could be unique weapon and engine color effects
- In pure theory it could also be paintjobs, but based on how the game works here, that's unlikely to actually happen.

The deciding point would be: the things would not be "once earned, always there". If they are, they can be grinded for. But if you use the mentioned ELO-style ranking, it can rise but also fall. Then also use the traditional ELO mechanic that it decays over time and perhaps, to avoid the "hickup" at the first few matches, require the completion of 20 matches to unlock all rewards.

A daily or even weekly update would be enough. You do well in CQC, you might get access to the glowing and pulsing "Arena Champion" decal and the blue-golden weapon color. The next week you do a bit worse and the game automaticall switches to a slightly simpler decal and somewhat shiny weapon color. You don't participate at all for a month and your rating drops. You're back to "CQC participant" decal and simpler weapon colors.

This way, somebody fielding these things is no "was there a lot, grinded things out" or "was lucky or did well once". It would be an indication that the player recently and consistently did well and indeed is a force to be reckoned with.

 

[Sylow]

Yes, the lack of trading is an issue that would be problematic for ED. I suppose a buff to credit rewards would be a compromise?

What is your opinion on material rewards though?

Credits come cheap. So i see absolutely no issue there. If somebody really needs "compensation" for playing CQC instead of the main game, credits are fine. The only condition would be: it needs to be less profitable per time invested than the most prominent ways of earning money.

I mean, it's one thing if somebody at a remote part of the game and in a solo instance mines void opals (actually a fun activity) or does something as mindless long range passenger missions, watching a movie during each flight. Neither really affects other players too much.

But a CQC-based gold rush has to be avoided. I mean, if the place then is full of people who just want credits and actually are not interested in participation, it's worse than what we currently have. We'd have instances full of people who just enter, fly around to get one kill or get killed once, so they participated, then AFK to the end of the match. It would just make sure that those few who would enjoy it also get bored and have no fun.

The same is true for materials, but i'd even be more careful there. While many players don't care for credits any more, the same people often bother for materials. So as long as CQC would be an alternative source of materials, it would be fine.

But if the rewards end up big enough that netflix-based playing is lucrative, too many people will use that option. That would be an utter disaster, arguably leaving CQC in a worse state than it is in now.

Sorry dude, but rebuy mechanics don't work in arena games. ED is not special in this regard.

I fully agree here. Look at WvWvW in GW2, Battleground or Cyrodil in ESO, games Overwatch, etc... they would not work if you'd have anything like rebuy there.
(I mean... maybe people would love Overwatch even more if for example loosing three matches in a row locks you out of regular games. You then would have to spend 45 minutes in the training ground and destroyed 300 target dummies before you can return to normal gameplay... i guess the community would loooove it. )

People are ready to go great length to gear up for PvP. But if PvP itself and death there comes at prohibitive costs, most players opt out. I mean, it's reasonable for the average player. You have a limited time budget. A game is supposed to be fun. But if PvP and its punishment regularily require you to spend time to recover your losses, it doesn't work. It eats up limited game time for activities which are not fun. So people avoid that or, if it can't be avoided in the game, move to another game. Which is not exactly desireable, either.

 

[Deleted member 110222]

Credits come cheap. So i see absolutely no issue there. If somebody really needs "compensation" for playing CQC instead of the main game, credits are fine. The only condition would be: it needs to be less profitable per time invested than the most prominent ways of earning money.

I mean, it's one thing if somebody at a remote part of the game and in a solo instance mines void opals (actually a fun activity) or does something as mindless long range passenger missions, watching a movie during each flight. Neither really affects other players too much.

But a CQC-based gold rush has to be avoided. I mean, if the place then is full of people who just want credits and actually are not interested in participation, it's worse than what we currently have. We'd have instances full of people who just enter, fly around to get one kill or get killed once, so they participated, then AFK to the end of the match. It would just make sure that those few who would enjoy it also get bored and have no fun.

The same is true for materials, but i'd even be more careful there. While many players don't care for credits any more, the same people often bother for materials. So as long as CQC would be an alternative source of materials, it would be fine.

But if the rewards end up big enough that netflix-based playing is lucrative, too many people will use that option. That would be an utter disaster, arguably leaving CQC in a worse state than it is in now.



I fully agree here. Look at WvWvW in GW2, Battleground or Cyrodil in ESO, games Overwatch, etc... they would not work if you'd have anything like rebuy there.
(I mean... maybe people would love Overwatch even more if for example loosing three matches in a row locks you out of regular games. You then would have to spend 45 minutes in the training ground and destroyed 300 target dummies before you can return to normal gameplay... i guess the community would loooove it. )

People are ready to go great length to gear up for PvP. But if PvP itself and death there comes at prohibitive costs, most players opt out. I mean, it's reasonable for the average player. You have a limited time budget. A game is supposed to be fun. But if PvP and its punishment regularily require you to spend time to recover your losses, it doesn't work. It eats up limited game time for activities which are not fun. So people avoid that or, if it can't be avoided in the game, move to another game. Which is not exactly desireable, either.

I would actually propose that CQC offer tiered rewards for success level, with some RNG.

Higher tier materials for the victor, and perhaps limit G5 mat drops to Free-4-All victors.

Losers get lower grade mats with a higher chance for G1 drop, and develop a spectrum between all this.

 

[CMDR Big Mike]

I love the idea OP. It would be neat to have rewards like ships and modules or weapons. These could be tied to challenges or limited to tournaments. Maybe a tournament game mode??

As for the issue of loss/risk, i think it would be neat to be able to wager CR on a match. As much or as little as you want.

Also, I think it would be neat to add an "open" CQC mode. You can select one of your own ships from the main game. When you blow up someone, you are awarded an amount equal to their rebuy. If you die it costs you a rebuy. With no waking available, I think it would push people to build ships that strike a balance between devastating and replaceable.

and add bots