An Easy Way For Frontier To Balance Modules In April Update

[Old Duck]

I'd doubt c1 MRP and HRP's make that much of a difference.

FWIW, I personally am not bothered by HRP stacking because I don't bother with hardcore PvP. Some people, smarter people than I when it comes to matters like this, apparently are.

I really would like TWO size-1 slots added to all ships, however. Call me greedy, but with controller, computer, and autopilot bloat, it seems only fair (and I hate being forced to use larger slots for smaller modules).

 

[Bob McBobblehead]

This isn't a bad idea, if all ships had an appropriate number of milslots (at least three), but what would be better is diminishing returns or providing slots that cannot take a defensive item.

Keep the military slots on ships as they are. If you fly Krait Phantom, don't expect the same defense and combat bonuses when compared to a specialized combat ship like the Lakon Chieftain (x3 military slots).

 

[Aashenfox]

BTW, nobody seems to have a problem with ALL ships getting two new size-1 module slots. Ironically my other thread, which questions where we find this space in a Sidewinder, is turned on its head when we consider a Type-9 or Beluga. If anything, those ships have room for a dozen new size-1 slots!

My understanding is that small ships get two and all mediums and larges get one. This is no doubt a response to the request for smaller ships to be more viable, which for some unknown reason gained a lot of traction on the forum about 4 months ago. It was never needed, btw. Small ships were in a great place, against other small ships. It's like asking a Ford Fiesta to compete with a BMW 3 series.

 

[Aashenfox]

I'd doubt c1 MRP and HRP's make that much of a difference. Smaller ships that are combat oriented could use more resistances padding as they often have fewer slots. Plus there are caustic resistances, and future gameplay could involve more resistances outside of the current three major ones. FD probably had thought about the different types of c1 modules cmdr's would be fitting into their ships besides the two new newb oriented ones with consideration in the new era. It could even be that certain progress was recently solidified on the 2020 update, so that particular foreknowledge of upcoming details helped FD to go ahead with introducing more of the c1 slots for all ships.

Increased my armor on my challenger by nearly 500 points, resistances by nearly 3% across the board, now at 50% (so that 500 points is 1000 against normal damage), my effective hull health against normal damage is now 10k. In a medium ship. How is this possible I hear you ask? Little bit of out of the box thinking...my size two mrp which only exists for canopy and hardpoint resistance, to compliment the size 5 that absorbs the actual damage, can now be a size one. So i just gained a whole size two HRP out of nowhere, bumping my hull hp by about 10%, now at 5.1k with 50% resist, and lost...nothing whatsoever. The chieftain will benefit similarly.

 

[Old Duck]

My understanding is that small ships get two and all mediums and larges get one. This is no doubt a response to the request for smaller ships to be more viable, which for some unknown reason gained a lot of traction on the forum about 4 months ago. It was never needed, btw. Small ships were in a great place, against other small ships. It's like asking a Ford Fiesta to compete with a BMW 3 series.

I believe you are thinking from a combat perspective. I'm thinking from a "everything else" perspective. We have serious module bloat, and it would be nice to have the slots for these new modules, especially for all the size 1 controllers and computers and autopilots. I'm not going to rage-quit if I don't get two new slots in my Orca, but oh it would be nice!

 

[Aashenfox]

I never understood the small-ships-don't-matter line of thinking, unless it applied to PvP strictly.

well, quite, and I never understood why people would want or expect to beat a medium ship with a small one. While this happens plenty (that a small ship defeats a medium one) it has more to do with rock/paper/scissors loadouts (or gimp loadouts, mines, torps, packhounds, etc) and flight skill differences, than because it was intended that this should be something that one can 'do'. There's a reason why, in boxing, they say 'a good bigg'un will, all else being equal, beat a good little'un.', and of course that is as it should be.

I'm still chuckling about the dbx, and also, 'The humiliator', a PvP T6 that I am planning to use against griefers, when FD fixes manufactured materials gathering, just got a LOT better.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

This has come up in a few threads, but I think it warrants its own topic. My proposal is simple, both in the statement and in the ease for Frontier to implement.

1) Give ALL ships two new size one module slots.
2) Remove or seriously nerf size one military modules (HRPs, MRPs, SCBs, etc).

This makes size one modules a bit more "specialized", likely to be used for computers and controllers, of which we have too many, and it addresses power creep. Most importantly, it is trivial for Frontier to code into their current update. Thoughts?

They are size 1. Hardy any change at all. Not a big deal.

 

[RamirezKurita]

I could get behind a numerical rebalance of HRPs, MRPs and SRPs in order to make them scale properly with size. Keep the class 4 as it currently is, buff up the class 5 modules and nerf the class 1/2/3 modules so they more closely follow the exponential size/mass scaling like cargo rather than the sub-linear scaling that they currently have. This would also remove a potential balance obstacle that is often suggested with regards to module bay splitters, as it would be impossible to achieve incredible power by stacking vast numbers of tiny modules - it would be more efficient to simply use the largest slots directly rather than splitting them.

If we go by the square-cube law, this gives just under a 60% increase to hull bonus each class (or a 37.5% reduction). This would roughly give 80/130/210/330/525 for classes 1-5 for the D-grade HRPs.

Obviously, the resistance boosts on engineer mods would also have to be scaled similarly, to prevent the lower-class reinforcements being stacked in the smaller slots to achieve large amounts of resistances without sacrificing overall capacity.

SCBs actually scale pretty well with regards to different overall capacities and their module class already; they aren't far off doubling in overall capacity with each module class, with the main notable outlier being the class 2 SCBs (which are about 30% greater overall capacity than they probably should be).

 

[StuartGT]

No thanks, I like that small ships are getting a bonus C1 slot (along with all ships getting a new C1 slot) because it'll make them more viable and fun imo

 

[CMDR Slee Piboi]

I don't disagree, but I'm trying to offer solutions that are easy to code, because this update is coming SOON.

Oh I give near 0% chance for any suggestions to make it from the forums into an update that's already gone through development and preliminary testing and is just getting prepared for deployment. So it's all just a thought exercise anyway, "maybe later" stuff at best. But don't get me wrong, none of it has gone to waste. It started to get a bit boring on the forums but now it's all exciting again! There's new stuff on every browser refresh and there's so much salt you could mistake the forums for Dead Sea!

On the topic at hand. The first time I was outfitting HRPs, I assumed that of course you can fit exactly one hull reinforcement package per ship. Damned if it still doesn't sound like it makes sense to assume so.

Imagine my surprise.

Now I've got HRPs on my HRPs on my Chieftain so I can HRP while I HRP. I'll throw out the Pilot's Guide if that lets me squeeze in another HRP.

I don't think the current direction is going to get ED anywhere. PvP will just take forever, traders and explorers will still remain paper. The solution?

MAKE EVERYONE PAPER.

Remove shields. They're a sci-fi cliche anyway. There go the boosters and the SCBs. One HRP, one MRP per ship. Done. Making guns hurt again. This ain't no Elite : Mostly Harmless, partner! After this -- if I say so myself -- improvement, when you next get pulled from supercruise, there's going to be a permanent mark on your elephant butt leather seat, 'cos your a-hole will pucker up like never before!

 

[Old Duck]

MAKE EVERYONE PAPER.

Remove shields. They're a sci-fi cliche anyway. There go the boosters and the SCBs. One HRP, one MRP per ship. Done. Making guns hurt again. This ain't no Elite : Mostly Harmless, partner! After this -- if I say so myself -- improvement, when you next get pulled from supercruise, there's going to be a permanent mark on your elephant butt leather seat, 'cos your a-hole will pucker up like never before!

You'd be surprised how many of my own ships are now shieldless these days. My shieldless paper-hulled Dolphin survived a PvP FDL attack, a feat that brought a huge grin to my face (still does). Now if I'm doing a pirate assassination mission, I'll be running with quality shields and boosters (but never SCBs because they are evil). That's because NPCs have been turned into bullet sponges after all the G5 Prismatic Corvette owners cried about not having a challenge...

But for mission running, exploration, and even some light PvP, flying shieldless is more fun than many people may realize

 

[Cmdr. Numa]

They are size 1. Hardy any change at all. Not a big deal.

A 1D HRP with G5 HD mod and deep plating adds 208 armor and 13,73% resist, that is pretty decent. More yet when you can move utility modules occupying a higher slot into the new size one and then have that higher class slot free for a HRP fully using it. These little size 1 slots change a lot.