Animal social structure

[Apathyangel]

This is feedback for animal social structure in the game.

Almost every species follows the "1 dominant male, x females" formula, despite the fact that even the zoopedia acknowledges that remarkably few species follow this structure.

I have worked with ringtailed lemurs, and the "1 male, x females" structure is not remotely accurate. A group with this structure is not capable of thriving (where other matriarchal species, such as elephants or lions, can do alright with that structure in captivity).

I can understand that an elephant or lion social structure is "simplified" for this game, but with lemurs, it's just flat-out wrong and unrealistic.

But polar bears need 6,000 square meters of space "for realism."

Right...

I'm still loving the game as a whole. But it is an annoyance, and a hit to my personal experience playing it, to see that every species has that same structure, even a species that I have real-world experience with and know for a fact that, not only do they NOT have that social structure, but they can't even thrive socially with it in captivity.

It's annoying to see the notification that two male lemurs will fight for alpha status, or will fight due to an incorrect sex ratio, when that just doesn't happen. It also makes genetics and preventing inbreeding very inconvenient, since that structure severely limits how many males can contribute to the gene pool in my zoos. Breeding is harder and takes longer, which in turn artificially drives up market prices for certain species.

And breeding farms are not fun to build or manage. I think introducing more varied and realistic social structures for different species will make for a more enjoyable game experience.

 

[VetGirl330]

Almost every species follows the "1 dominant male, x females" formula, despite the fact that even the zoopedia acknowledges that remarkably few species follow this structure.

I 100% agree with you. On some level I applaud the Frontier team for doing cursory research on each species to populate the zoopedia pages, but then they don't even implement the information that they themselves publish. I am also find it extremely frustrating that Frontier imposes the very human (and now somewhat antiquated) concept of the nuclear family or polygamous systems only. There are many species that live happily in large social groups with males and females. There are also many examples of species where we do tend to think of a dominant male, e.g. lions, where two males, especially when raised together in captivity peacefully cohabitate.
Before the game was released Frontier promised that each animal would be an individual. Within each species there should be a range of social behavior, from aggression to tolerance to social. The game has the ability to tract animal's family tree. Two male lion cubs that were raised together should be able to live together as adults. However if one of those males were sold it does not mean who could be placed peacefully with another male lion.

 

[DrBurrito]

Wonder if they can add a harem system for animals like zebra and wildebeest in a similar fashion to how they fixed the canid pack structure to allow for bigger groups. Given enough space, several harems could tolerate each other to form larger herds in huge savannah habitats.

 

[NZFanatic]

Wonder if they can add a harem system for animals like zebra and wildebeest in a similar fashion to how they fixed the canid pack structure to allow for bigger groups. Given enough space, several harems could tolerate each other to form larger herds in huge savannah habitats.

Yeah I pitched this idea a while back. Theoretically the simplest way of doing it would be on a balancing system, which is to say the group as a whole can tolerate more males if there are the appropriate number of females in play at the same time. One male to five females, so two males to ten females, three males to fifteen females, and so on. As long as there are enough females the males won't fight.

That would be a good way of doing it I think, and a realistic way, since zoos that keep large herds (and they often do with antelope especially) usually try and have more than one male to encourage genetic diversity (this is also true for certain primates - baboon social structures are harem-based as well).

 

[DrBurrito]

Yeah I pitched this idea a while back. Theoretically the simplest way of doing it would be on a balancing system, which is to say the group as a whole can tolerate more males if there are the appropriate number of females in play at the same time. One male to five females, so two males to ten females, three males to fifteen females, and so on. As long as there are enough females the males won't fight.

That would be a good way of doing it I think, and a realistic way, since zoos that keep large herds (and they often do with antelope especially) usually try and have more than one male to encourage genetic diversity (this is also true for certain primates - baboon social structures are harem-based as well).

Sounds like a solid solution to me unless they want to do something from scratch like they did with canids. One question that comes to mind is how will they behave if this system is used; will they form a homogenous herd or will certain females be "assigned" to a certain male and group closer together?

 

[Firestar97]

I have worked with ringtailed lemurs, and the "1 male, x females" structure is not remotely accurate. A group with this structure is not capable of thriving (where other matriarchal species, such as elephants or lions, can do alright with that structure in captivity).

I can understand that an elephant or lion social structure is "simplified" for this game, but with lemurs, it's just flat-out wrong and unrealistic.

I absolutely agree. They need to put more Research into their Work. I lost my complete old Population of Ring Tailed Lemurs (with very good Genetics) because of this unrealistic Group-System. My male died and when I noticed it and introduced a new one, the Lemurs that where left where already too old to breed. I also wonder when they will finally implement realistic Social Behavior and Pack-Sizes for Spotted Hyenas. It is also annoying how some Species like Chimpanzees "can have more than one male in the Group" but then they are fighting all the time as if there would be too many of them

 

[NZFanatic]

Sounds like a solid solution to me unless they want to do something from scratch like they did with canids. One question that comes to mind is how will they behave if this system is used; will they form a homogenous herd or will certain females be "assigned" to a certain male and group closer together?

Well, the animald currently don't form herds as it is. They're a group of individuals that each do their own thing. The only group activity seems to be eating, but otherwise everything is separated. So I don't think it would affect things too much, it would just mean that males don't fight if there are enough females (and I imagine breeding would occur between whatever male and female happen to be nearby each other regardless of group size).

 

[DrBurrito]

Well, the animald currently don't form herds as it is. They're a group of individuals that each do their own thing. The only group activity seems to be eating, but otherwise everything is separated. So I don't think it would affect things too much, it would just mean that males don't fight if there are enough females (and I imagine breeding would occur between whatever male and female happen to be nearby each other regardless of group size).

It is a little hard to notice in smaller enclosures but animals actually do form soft groups if you will. It wasn't like this in the beta, but they introduced it a few weeks after launch if I am not mistaken. This is why I had questioned how the animals would behave if a harem system similar to a pack system wasn't coded.

 

[NZFanatic]

It is a little hard to notice in smaller enclosures but animals actually do form soft groups if you will. It wasn't like this in the beta, but they introduced it a few weeks after launch if I am not mistaken. This is why I had questioned how the animals would behave if a harem system similar to a pack system wasn't coded.

Ideally the harems would form one big herd, but that's assuming they programme in proper grouping. I've never seen it in-game before myself, and I've made some pretty big enclosures.