Another yaw rant

[Romanito]

Hi everyone.

After several weeks watching jaw-dropping videos of ED gameplay, I finally decided to pre-order the beta.

I played a few minutes and I already regret paying 60€ for a game that forces players to use pitch&roll. I know it's been debated several times but this is so infuriating that it needs to be repeated again and again. If I knew that before I bought the game, I would have kept my money. But I had to buy it, play a few minutes, wonder why yaw was so slow, search the forums to finally find out that this was "by design". This made me SO upset.

I won't accept "Just learn to use pitch&roll" as an answer. I respect those who prefer this but ED designers don't seem to respect those who prefer pitch&yaw. Pitch&roll makes sense for atmospheric flights but forcing it for a space sim is just silly and arbitrary.

I was really enthusiast about the game, I was eager to explore space seamlessly, I love the way space stations are designed, I was happy to help this project with some of my money... but I'm extremely disappointed. I feel like I just threw 60€ down the trash. And of course purchases are non-refundable.

 

[Asp Explorer]

Take a good look at the models of the ships. Notice where the thrusters are located.

There are great big whopping engines on the back. There are smaller engines on the front. There are even smaller engines on the top and bottom.

There don't appear to be any on the sides.

Pitch and Roll and directional thrusting keeps combat interesting, and rolling to match target and then pitch to align, yaw to fine-tune works very well.

Pitch and Yaw to target gives you, urm, sorry to say this, but a certain other space game. It's not a fun combat experience really.

Learn how things work in Elite, it won't take too long, and I honestly think that once you are past the initial barrier of "Waaaa! It's not how I expected/wanted it to fly!" you'll have a great deal of fun!

Part of the fun in games like these is that it requires that you learn.

 

[ZeeWolf]

I played a few minutes .

You paid how much?

 

[Half Giant]

It's a combination of things. Partly the history of Elite games have always been pitch and roll. Partly in testing the dev team found it led to more interesting battles as players were less likely to stop dead and just pivot on the spot. The bit that I don't see mentioned as often is that I think most ships in ED are intended for atmospheric flight. In practice it is part of the DNA of Elite and most things are up for balancing but a fundamental design decision like this won't change.

Sorry if it's not for you but hope you stick with it. Maybe keep trying and update after giving the full Beta a try.

 

[forger]

Hi everyone.

After several weeks watching jaw-dropping videos of ED gameplay, I finally decided to pre-order the beta.

I played a few minutes and I already regret paying 60€ for a game that forces players to use pitch&roll. I know it's been debated several times but this is so infuriating that it needs to be repeated again and again. If I knew that before I bought the game, I would have kept my money. But I had to buy it, play a few minutes, wonder why yaw was so slow, search the forums to finally find out that this was "by design". This made me SO upset.

I won't accept "Just learn to use pitch&roll" as an answer. I respect those who prefer this but ED designers don't seem to respect those who prefer pitch&yaw. Pitch&roll makes sense for atmospheric flights but forcing it for a space sim is just silly and arbitrary.

I was really enthusiast about the game, I was eager to explore space seamlessly, I love the way space stations are designed, I was happy to help this project with some of my money... but I'm extremely disappointed. I feel like I just threw 60€ down the trash. And of course purchases are non-refundable.

IF you watched videos then you HAD to see how ships fly - roll/pitch and never yaw, that had to be enough to gather information, at least...

anyway i would suggest that you empty your head from all stereotypes and just play a game couple days/weeks and if then still think it's not fun, well, sad, because nerfed yaw is what makes this game BETTER than others and not worse.

just clear your brain and you probably will get used to it faster than you know it.

 

[Grav]

FD are making the game they want to play, the rest of us are just along for the ride. Your choices are basically "adapt or die".

I won't accept "Just learn to use pitch&roll" as an answer.

Oh well.

 

[Cosmo Bozo]

nerfed yaw

Actually it's boosted, the original game that the flight model is based on had none

 

[Romanito]

Asp Explorer: I see what you mean, I may give it another try later, but I'm so angry right now. Of course a flat ship design will impede efficient yaw, but these are space ships, there was no need for a flat design. If I wanted this kind of flight controls, I would have stuck with War Thunder.

And I agree that learning new controls can be fun when it makes sense: Star Citizen needs a special handling because of the way they designed flight controls with gimbal-mounted thrusters, but it all makes sense according to the game's physics and IFCS. Forcing pitch&roll in a space sim is unjustified, I feel like the designers wanted to make a flight sim in space and found a cheap excuse for it.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Hi everyone.

After several weeks watching jaw-dropping videos of ED gameplay, I finally decided to pre-order the beta.

I played a few minutes and I already regret paying 60€ for a game that forces players to use pitch&roll. I know it's been debated several times but this is so infuriating that it needs to be repeated again and again. If I knew that before I bought the game, I would have kept my money. But I had to buy it, play a few minutes, wonder why yaw was so slow, search the forums to finally find out that this was "by design". This made me SO upset.

I won't accept "Just learn to use pitch&roll" as an answer. I respect those who prefer this but ED designers don't seem to respect those who prefer pitch&yaw. Pitch&roll makes sense for atmospheric flights but forcing it for a space sim is just silly and arbitrary.

I was really enthusiast about the game, I was eager to explore space seamlessly, I love the way space stations are designed, I was happy to help this project with some of my money... but I'm extremely disappointed. I feel like I just threw 60€ down the trash. And of course purchases are non-refundable.

Hi Romanito,

Pitch and roll was chosen after long internal discussions for one and one reason only - that made combat fun. With strong yaw all player to player combat turned into turrets into space or FPS in space if you will. You must admit that's not really encouraging way to play, and have little if anything to do with skill.

Game is not forcing you to do anything. It is just designed that way, and this design has been justified by recent SC AC releases, and overall satisfaction from people who have played ED.

Open your mind. Don't insist on yaw just because you have used to it. Don't play few minutes. Play trough all missions, and then decide if you like it or not.

 

[testmate]

you can still do some yaw with the "yaw on low roll" setting enabled i.e. ... works great for keeping your aim and finetuning... (you can do some strafing around big targets, too)
Or just set a controller axis to yaw ...

I don't understand your problem.
there are many possibilitys .. just try them all and find out what suits you best. I did spend hours doing so in scenario #1, optimizing my controls

 

[Vandaahl]

Just learn to use pitch&roll!

If you are disappointed that easy, anything else but yaw would of disappointed you as well.

Sry to hear you don't like it. Well, the 5% of the game that is finished that is.

 

[beelbeebub]

Sorry to hear you're disappointed.

The pitch and roll dynamic is here to stay. It's been discussed over and over, and FD are standing firm. It's a core part of Elite.

The limited yaw makes dog fighting more challenging, but it is harder to learn, especially if you have been used to FPS style play.

My advice is to persevere with it. The controls are carefully balanced to provide a learning curve.

Like any skill (football, skiing, driving) it will take time to learn, and the rewards for doing so are greater. Imagine how boring skiing would be if there was nothing to learn and you could never improve.

Good luck!

 

[nats]

I am sure Frontier and FFE had pitch and yaw. I can understand the frustration. It should be configurable. In space pitch and yaw is the only sensible control method I think. Pitch and roll is only sensible in atmosphere where the roll plus lift vector enables you to turn well. In space no-one in their right mind would design a fighter with pitch and roll controls. Roll should definitely be subsidiary.

 

[Romanito]

I understand what you all mean, I think I'm just angry because I had to pay 60€ to find out this game is not for me.

Dogfighting is not my main focus, I was really willing to explore a gigantic procedurally generated universe, so having the same flight controls as everyone was not that important.

Well I'll try again with a cool head I guess.

 

[The Killer Edible Poet]

Hi everyone.

After several weeks watching jaw-dropping videos of ED gameplay, I finally decided to pre-order the beta.

You spent several weeks watching videos and you didn't notice the core fight mechanic was pitch/roll?

 

[Vandaahl]

Pitch and roll is only sensible in atmosphere where the roll plus lift vector enables you to turn well.

Exactly. And what will we be able to in the future? Planetary landings. Why do we have a closed hull? Why are our weapons stored away in this closed hull? The reason might well be the same for the pitch/yaw characteristics.

 

[Aleksej]

I am sure Frontier and FFE had pitch and yaw. I can understand the frustration. It should be configurable. In space pitch and yaw is the only sensible control method I think. Pitch and roll is only sensible in atmosphere where the roll plus lift vector enables you to turn well. In space no-one in their right mind would design a fighter with pitch and roll controls. Roll should definitely be subsidiary.

You are wrong. Nobody has canceled the g-forces. Human body is more tolerable to vertical Gs than to horizontal Gs. This makes pitch/roll prevalent over yaw.

Pitch/roll were chosen for the fun of their gameplay. It seems to me that these serve their purpose well.

 

[Calebe]

I played a few minutes and I already regret paying 60€ for a game that forces players to use pitch&roll.

So after a few minutes you give up? Honestly why not give it a couple hours and see how it works for you. It works really well and it isn't hard to change direction and do what needs to be done. Just work with it and give it a chance, and see how it feels after putting some time into it.

Calebe

 

[Vandaahl]

Dogfighting is not my main focus, I was really willing to explore a gigantic procedurally generated universe, so having the same flight controls as everyone was not that important.

Then why do you even bother about yaw?

 

[ZeeWolf]

Well I'll try again with a cool head I guess.

I think this is a good idea, give it at least a little more time ;-)

Right on commander for giving it another chance at least (I personally rather like the flight system, but understand that it's initially rather jarring for those used to other sims)