Proposal Discussion Anti Botting Agreement Idea 3.1 Player incentivised, VR compatible in-station "not-a-literal-Captcha"

[Jane Turner]

This is a half-formed idea, one of many that has emerged during a vigorous discussion about botting in Elite Dangerous. If FD ever chose to implement something like this there would be an effect on the playing community, so we have put here for wider discussion, improvements, and an exploration of what would be acceptable to players who don't care about the possibility of botting. The Anti-Botting Agreement thread is >>HERE<< if anyone wants to add their squadron, or individual names to the agreement.

Best Current thinking NB IS NOT A LITERAL CAPTCHA - it's something that requires human intervention occasionally. Station services to be restricted or BGS/PP effect reduced unless the pilot can respond to some sort of challenge and response that augments game play. It needs to be no harder to navigate than existing menus - ie VR compatible, hence it likely needs to incorporate a simple "comprehension test". There are two directions currently. 1 Should be something that is engaging and interesting for a human pilot to do - so people who do not care about botting or think its not an issue at all only notice something more interesting in the gameplay - this could be described as more varied game-play - less repeat loops. 2. If it needs to be something more "Captcha-like", then it needs to be something that gives a benefit on completion - but that benefit should be BGS and PP neutral It should be limited to a small subset of very active BGS or Power Play accounts, thus avoiding annoying the bulk of the player base. Also the very BGS/PP active caommanders are those with the biggest stake in dealing with the issue.

QUESTIONS THAT STILL NEED DISCUSSION

• When should this happen, randomly, after repeated actions?
• Where should the intervention be? The current assumption is at the point of purchase or mission completion [could this detect hacks?]
• Could it be an audio message as opposed to something visual?

Advantages	Needs solving
Should make it harder for simple scripted bots [anecdotal evidence suggests 5th columning in Power PLay is dramatically reduced after interface changes] Automated accounts need more frequent attention Could double as a detector. Humans get distracted from time to time and might miss one, but a bot should fail more often Should be reasonably easy to implement potential for more engaging gameplay	does not solve hacking incentives have to outweigh inconvenience for players who do not care about the issue in the 1st place not likely to deal with the more sophisticated bots for long.

Recent coverage of the issues

 

[Rubbernuke]

Personally I'd rather FD made the missions more random (i.e. have more unexpected events or stages in them), because then you get gameplay for free.

 

[Jane Turner]

That's not incompatible with this - missions used to be predictably unpredictable - remember those irritating ones that changed delivery location just as you touched down on an outposts 300KLYs from the star [Clarified the 1st post - it was already there but now it has equal billing!]

 

[scadh]

I vote that, henceforth, all automated Air Traffic Controllers that grant you landing permission, tell you your docking bay #, welcome you to the station, etc, should be replaced by REAL humans who can more easily detect bot spacecraft.

Either that, or just get rid of auto-dock entirely.

By the way, both of those are totally plausible, valid ideas, so mock either of them at your peril.

Serious now: I'd actually be in favor of implementing some sort of anti-bot, but hard to guess how it might work. As a VR player, I would not want to have to enter any sort of code on my physical keyboard. Maybe some sort of "please acknowledge commander" prompt that brought up a slider or spinner control where you could use your controller to parrot the landing bay # back or something?

 

[Jane Turner]

I vote that, henceforth, all automated Air Traffic Controllers that grant you landing permission, tell you your docking bay #, welcome you to the station, etc, should be replaced by REAL humans who can more easily detect bot spacecraft.

Either that, or just get rid of auto-dock entirely.

By the way, both of those are totally plausible, valid ideas, so mock either of them at your peril.

Serious now: I'd actually be in favor of implementing some sort of anti-bot, but hard to guess how it might work. As a VR player, I would not want to have to enter any sort of code on my physical keyboard. Maybe some sort of "please acknowledge commander" prompt that brought up a slider or spinner control where you could use your controller to parrot the landing bay # back or something?

It clearly has to be VR navigable [which would also cover consoles, not that there are likely to be console bots] This is Air traffic control - there is a virus in your automatic docking computer software, in order to prevent contamination we have severed the links. Please land instead at Pad 27.

 

[Marklar_]

Captcha is how I found out that I'm actually a machine.

I've basically been living in a Philip K. Horselover Fat novel ever since.

Edit: If I were human, I'd complain about the forum censoring the name of one of the greatest sci-fi writers of all time.

 

[WR3ND]

Now that you mention it, I'm not a fan of the new mini station menu. It takes over my pip management (going the speed limit can be a bit of a challenge in some of my ships), since I use some of those same buttons for menu navigation.
A controller only has so many buttons, you know.

By the by, I tend to suck at those "I'm not a robot" picture tests. What's what in them isn't defined and differentiated well enough and I probably overthink them.
Carry on.

 

[KKomrade Sylas]

I vote that, henceforth, all automated Air Traffic Controllers that grant you landing permission, tell you your docking bay #, welcome you to the station, etc, should be replaced by REAL humans who can more easily detect bot spacecraft.

Either that, or just get rid of auto-dock entirely.

By the way, both of those are totally plausible, valid ideas, so mock either of them at your peril.

Serious now: I'd actually be in favor of implementing some sort of anti-bot, but hard to guess how it might work. As a VR player, I would not want to have to enter any sort of code on my physical keyboard. Maybe some sort of "please acknowledge commander" prompt that brought up a slider or spinner control where you could use your controller to parrot the landing bay # back or something?

Yes, ideas like that work and are welcome. We know that nobody would want an actual captcha asking you to click on the bycicles, rather, it can easily be implemented through gameplay.

What would also work, is that these "captchas" are targeted to accounts FDev believes suspect enough to deserve it... instead of rolling it out globally. It's an idea to make FDev's job in identifying botting easier, and one the community can participate in. We know they might just not be capable themselves of doing it alone.

 

[Rubbernuke]

The other question is really what do bots 'do' the most? If its straight point to point trading (i.e. simple activities) perhaps the BGS influence of these jobs needs reducing, while high input activities that can't be botted are boosted perhaps.

The other might be making the landing cycle more random. Perhaps control will say "please hold outside the station, sorry for the delay" so you need to be aware.

I mentioned these changes (intended for Powerplay) that would sort many problems at once:

1: increase the drop zone around stations so that more NPCs can interact / attack you (security, pirates etc).

2: use the 'seeking goods' hidden trader POI along with NAV scanning. To offload fortification cargo you drop to the NAV (random and riskier since its swarming with NPCs) scan the NAV for the drop point POI. This is in a random location in the system, where you need to fly close to offload your cargo. This is a CAPTCHA in game form, with the side benefit of giving NPCs and players room away from stations, as well as removing the issue of pad blockers 100%.

3: use new CZ mechanics with PP combat expansions so that rather than infinite spawns each battle has an 'end', meaning you can't AFK heal beam in a wing.

4: roving PP NPCs which act like specops which are truly random and lethal.

 

[Old Duck]

If actual Captcha was put in the game, I wouldn't uninstall ED - I would physically remove the hard drive and burn it in the hottest fire I could find.

That's how much I hate Captcha.

 

[Dillon Fallon]

Something like this needs to have zero impact on players who don't care about the BGS. One of my least favourite things is picking up an assassination mission and being told to meet a contact in another system. I want to get to the pew pew bit, so this jumping around is a waste of time. So if the idea is throw extras (be that credits, mats, rep or influence) I'd see no problem there- just please don't have so these are changes to the mission half way through (the same cargo to a different destination would be fair enough though).

 

[Jane Turner]

Something like this needs to have zero impact on players who don't care about the BGS. One of my least favourite things is picking up an assassination mission and being told to meet a contact in another system. I want to get to the pew pew bit, so this jumping around is a waste of time. So if the idea is throw extras (be that credits, mats, rep or influence) I'd see no problem there- just please don't have so these are changes to the mission half way through (the same cargo to a different destination would be fair enough though).

That's why it's out for discussion/examination

 

[Rubbernuke]

Something like this needs to have zero impact on players who don't care about the BGS. One of my least favourite things is picking up an assassination mission and being told to meet a contact in another system. I want to get to the pew pew bit, so this jumping around is a waste of time. So if the idea is throw extras (be that credits, mats, rep or influence) I'd see no problem there- just please don't have so these are changes to the mission half way through (the same cargo to a different destination would be fair enough though).

The great thing is that missions to kill people can't be botted. From what I can gather its simple cargo runs that can be automated.

 

[Jane Turner]

The other question is really what do bots 'do' the most? If its straight point to point trading (i.e. simple activities) perhaps the BGS influence of these jobs needs reducing, while high input activities that can't be botted are boosted perhaps.

The other might be making the landing cycle more random. Perhaps control will say "please hold outside the station, sorry for the delay" so you need to be aware.

I mentioned these changes that would sort many problems at once:

1: increase the drop zone around stations so that more NPCs can interact / attack you (security, pirates etc).

2: use the 'seeking goods' hidden trader POI along with NAV scanning. To offload fortification cargo you drop to the NAV (random and riskier since its swarming with NPCs) scan the NAV for the drop point POI. This is in a random location in the system, where you need to fly close to offload your cargo. This is a CAPTCHA in game form, with the side benefit of giving NPCs and players room away from stations, as well as removing the issue of pad blockers 100%.

3: use new CZ mechanics with PP combat expansions so that rather than infinite spawns each battle has an 'end', meaning you can't AFK heal beam in a wing.

4: roving PP NPCs which act like specops which are truly random and lethal.

I am dragging those into future idea threads

 

[Jane Turner]

The great thing is that missions to kill people can't be botted. From what I can gather its simple cargo runs that can be automated.

Not simple botted, no.

 

[Alien]

I have a much much better idea .... we restrict in-game station services unless your forum join date is before the kickstarter launch date, then you can have all the station services.

What's that? I didn't catch that first word, I clearly heard the second word, "off" I think it was. Well, maybe you understand then why A CAPTCHA IN THE GAME IS A BAD IDEA

 

[Para Handy]

Lots of stupid ideas around at the moment.

 

[KKomrade Sylas]

I have a much much better idea .... we restrict in-game station services unless your forum join date is before the kickstarter launch date, then you can have all the station services.

What's that? I didn't catch that first word, I clearly heard the second word, "off" I think it was. Well, maybe you understand then why A CAPTCHA IN THE GAME IS A BAD IDEA

Good thing nobody wants you to draw a pixel perfect recreation of the mona lisa in paint to confirm you're a human. Rather, a more dynamic, less repetitive way of using services, one that would not disrupt human beings, but one that would disrupt scripted accounts.

Of course the original post might need some clarification on this since this is, apparently, not clear enough for everyone.

 

[BL1P]

Removing auto dock and super cruise assist seem like the easiest way.

I use them all the time but I hate any form of cheating more than I like using auto dock and assist.

 

[Llandrenel]

Honestly, one question I have is, unless bots are attacking/killing players. What harm are they actually doing?