Anti-Exploit

[Asp Explorer]

I was just wondering what anti-exploit protections there would be in-game?

There has to be a way to protect the in-game economy from combat bots and credit-farmers. I've seen what such things can do to both the economies and communities of other MMOG's

Surely there must be some method to stop thousands of people doing the equivalent of shooting Phobos in timewarp to essentially farm rating.

I'm really sorry if this has been asked before. If needed - please just delete.

 

[TheBetpet]

My guess is they'll fix such things as and when they become apparent. There isn't really much they can do beforehand unless they do some stats compiling and notice certain patterns occurring like ratings and kills jumping significantly in certain locations.

 

[Michael Brookes]

Moving thread to General Discussion.

Michael

 

[Andrew Sayers]

I was just wondering what anti-exploit protections there would be in-game?

There has to be a way to protect the in-game economy from combat bots and credit-farmers. I've seen what such things can do to both the economies and communities of other MMOG's

Their solution to credit-farming is quite ingenious IMHO. They need to fund the real-life servers and they know people will buy in-game cash no matter what, so they cut out the farmers and sell in-game cash themselves. That lets them manage the sales process (so e.g. people don't get spammed by gold-farmers), and forces them to structure the game so buying credits doesn't let you pay to win.

I don't think we've heard much about combat bots, but personally I like the idea of using the matchmaking algorithm for that sort of thing. For reasons of networking, you can only be in the same "instance" as 32 people at once, and the servers have to decide which 32 people. The algorithm could group people together based on how quickly they're gaining experience, so whether you're using combat bots or you really are that good, you get plonked in with people of a similar calibre.

 

[izzy]

My guess is they'll fix such things as and when they become apparent. There isn't really much they can do beforehand unless they do some stats compiling and notice certain patterns occurring like ratings and kills jumping significantly in certain locations.

I agree, with the online mode, FD can manage the universe to fix any exploit

 

[jabokai]

Their solution to credit-farming is quite ingenious IMHO. They need to fund the real-life servers and they know people will buy in-game cash no matter what, so they cut out the farmers and sell in-game cash themselves. That lets them manage the sales process (so e.g. people don't get spammed by gold-farmers), and forces them to structure the game so buying credits doesn't let you pay to win.

How do you encourage people to buy in game credits if it doesn't feature an aspect of pay-to-win? Unless it's for vanity items only, of course; something a few of us favour.

I don't think we've heard much about combat bots, but personally I like the idea of using the matchmaking algorithm for that sort of thing. For reasons of networking, you can only be in the same "instance" as 32 people at once, and the servers have to decide which 32 people. The algorithm could group people together based on how quickly they're gaining experience, so whether you're using combat bots or you really are that good, you get plonked in with people of a similar calibre.

I'm not a big fan of that idea - it's too clinical. I'd prefer if it's always random (and loosely affected by friends/ignore lists of course).

 

[Komemiute]

Being italian I was thinking along the OP lines...

Since I have pledged so to have multiple starting points with different ships...

What stops me from selling to my primary character all those ships I start with with my secondaries (multiple ones)?

Don't want to do it, but tempting...

 

[JackalHeadGod]

I'm not a big fan of direct real money<>game money transfers. I'd rather see an exchange market like that in Guild Wars 2. Players buy "shop tokens" for real money and sell them to players for in game currency. Shop tokens buy cosmetic and minor boosters. That way the money supply is still constrained by what players are producing in game (stops rampant inflation) and people who don't want to pay real money still have a route to getting the cosmetic vanity items from the shop. The only part of GW2 shop I don't like is the annoying key mechanic.

What stops me from selling to my primary character all those ships I start with with my secondaries (multiple ones)?

If they follow the model used by other games they will be locked to your character (can't be transferred) and will have 0 vendor value and not be scrap-able for material components.

The straight up cash is the harder part to deal with but I'd imaging the amounts are low enough that it wont imbalance the economy compared to the cost/time benefit of a good cargo run in a big ship.

 

[Steve_T]

Being italian I was thinking along the OP lines...

Since I have pledged so to have multiple starting points with different ships...

What stops me from selling to my primary character all those ships I start with with my secondaries (multiple ones)?

Don't want to do it, but tempting...

I would assume that they'll have some mechanism in place to prevent the sale of starter ships; other than the Sidewinder.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

Their solution to credit-farming is quite ingenious IMHO. They need to fund the real-life servers and they know people will buy in-game cash no matter what, so they cut out the farmers and sell in-game cash themselves. That lets them manage the sales process (so e.g. people don't get spammed by gold-farmers), and forces them to structure the game so buying credits doesn't let you pay to win.

Not picking on you specifically Andrew, but that's nonsense.

It's not ingenious - plenty of games in the past sell in-game currency for real money : Diablo 3 to name one. The bot farmers are still there

I assure you of 1 thing - If ED is popular and the game takes off then you will have credit farmers in ED spamming their web sites and trades. This I guarantee.

There isn't so much "pay-2-win" in ED as some items are restricted to reputation to obtain them (but not use them), however if you can trade in items (like ship components) then it only takes 1 farmer to gain the needed reputation to be able to buy the items then voila - there's your pay-2-win angle satisfied.

There is only 1 way to stop the farmers - Watch the transfers and police them. This isn't economical so companies tend to employ scripts and bots to watch for things like this, but ultimately it's unreliable and a resource hog that isn't sustainable.

Thankfully there isn't an open market nor craftable goods so inflation isn't likely to take hold which is the source of farmers power.

 

[Steve_T]

I'm not a big fan of direct real money<>game money transfers. I'd rather see an exchange market like that in Guild Wars 2. Players buy "shop tokens" for real money and sell them to players for in game currency. Shop tokens buy cosmetic and minor boosters. That way the money supply is still constrained by what players are producing in game (stops rampant inflation) and people who don't want to pay real money still have a route to getting the cosmetic vanity items from the shop. The only part of GW2 shop I don't like is the annoying key mechanic.



If they follow the model used by other games they will be locked to your character (can't be transferred) and will have 0 vendor value and not be scrap-able for material components.

The straight up cash is the harder part to deal with but I'd imaging the amounts are low enough that it wont imbalance the economy compared to the cost/time benefit of a good cargo run in a big ship.

Yes, that also raises an interesting point regarding the equipment in the upgraded ships, available at some pledge levels. Hopefully these items also won't be transferrable either.

 

[W4rSkuLL]

I remember farm bots in WOW, and how irritating it was.
Farm ships sounds a little far fetched though. "Farm ship bots" In WOW quest items and trash mobs were respawning in certain areas which made them easy to farm. In space I think it will be different. Space is huge and things move around. And I guess if something is destroyed its gone forever. Unless someone rebuilds it. So I dont think there will be areas with traders with "gems" on them respawning to be killed over and over again. A bot farm ship farming for "gems" in a certain system. It sounds to irrational.

But well. We all know what a game which can earn you real money does to the chinese. Just look at Wow and D3. I guess tradelanes and stations will be guarded by police and bountyhunters will always be on lookout for nasty pirates. Or nasty "bots". I can only imagine that we can see "farm ship bots" mining or scavaging. But first you need to earn real money on it. And it seems at first glance ED wont let you use your credit card to upgrade your ship. But the gold tingy is well established in many MMOG. And an easy way to cash. If Frontier Developments let you buy upgrades with your money. You can betcha there will be chinese farmers and bots in space If ED is set up like WarThunder. Where you can buy gold and goldplanes for upgrades and better planes. You will earn much money straight to Frontier Developments and not to the "goldsellers". So if you can buy stuff in ED, like ships and upgrades, even cargo at some places. Its better with a cashsystem like that in Warthunder. Use your creditcard to buy "Golden Elite Badges". Use these again to buy stuff in the game. Stuff which you upgrade should be resellable on a market, though cheaper, so you have a cashsink also. So prices dont go down to much because the market is flooded with lets say "Beam lazers". And NPCs can buy old upgrades bought with cash and if they get blown up that item is forever gone. So ventually the money turned to gold badges can be turned to credits in game and eventually destroyed if sold to NPC vendor or character. So it wont destabilize ingame credit flow. Well space is huge so I guess it wont be a problem. Or it can be "bind on pickup" hehe My gold badge "lazer" is "bind on pickup" so I can just sell it to a vendor.

But I dont think thats what DB and the ED team wants. They want us to buy the game and play it online. But you never know, maybe a gold system will emerge to keep the game upgraded and the servers in good shape. Its strange what people will actually buy for real money if they have a chanse to be the better edge or wolf in the pack.

 

[Nagual]

I would assume that they'll have some mechanism in place to prevent the sale of starter ships; other than the Sidewinder.

Perhaps, but then later in the game after you've bought a new ship how do you sell your old one if you wanted?

In order to sell your ship, you need another ship to be in. That is you must have an alternative ship to fly. No second ship, no sale.

 

[Komemiute]

A thorny issue, ain't it?

 

[Cosmos]

Their solution to credit-farming is quite ingenious IMHO. They need to fund the real-life servers and they know people will buy in-game cash no matter what, so they cut out the farmers and sell in-game cash themselves. That lets them manage the sales process (so e.g. people don't get spammed by gold-farmers), and forces them to structure the game so buying credits doesn't let you pay to win.

Its far from an ingenious solution at all and its one of those points we have yet to see any detail about. There is one way you can stop 'gold-farmers' in their tracks.. its like this: you dont allow money trades between players. Therefore, any form of allowing the buying of currency is a means to generate revenue for the company. If running a few servers is going to cost the earth then okay, lets see the detail, otherwise its just an excuse to create a wow style cash cow. Valve runs heaps of online games and I've never had to spend a penny outside of buying the game.

Unfortunately there is some practicality involved with online games. If it turns out revenue is required to pay for the cost of servers etc, I am happy to hear the argument and be presented with facts to support it.

There are a few issues that get me boiled up and this is one of them.
Ugh, I hate talking about wow - but I played it for a long time before it turned into eaze mode:

My point is that in the end everyone and his dog seemed to be buying gold. Several of my friends did on a regular basis. Just on a matter of principle I never did - the idea of doing so represented completely debasing the entire game.

So what was the result of the silent free for all and my living on principle?
Anything on the AH that was worth anything (i.e. purple BoEs) was immediately inflated to a price I couldn't afford - and I played the game A LOT. All my friends who did buy gold had no problem in kitting their character out, even alts, with stuff I had to work for but could barely afford, if at all.

That was just deeply unfair, in the end I stopped playing. I am still waiting to understand how being able to buy currency is not going to result in a system of unfairness whether it is bought from Frontier or not.

 

[insanephoton]

As far as I can see the only way to stop gold farming is if FD sell it at such a low price that it is uneconomical for gold farmers to operate. I don't know if it's practical but if there's no profit in it, people won't do it.

The only other thing is making some items only available with certain reputation. I was initially against this as I didn't feel it was in the spirit of Elite, but it would make it harder to just buy your way to success.

 

[Lestat]

I think instead of going there no way to stop something. Is point out ways to stop it.

Like Mining. Make it so the user has to monitor his machines. Watch out for rouge asteroids. Pirates, Rock hermit and other Miners.

So make mining a challenge and not a chore.

Spam mail. If they display a url. auto block the url. Even if it something like Gold spam . com. But users have to help with this action. If they see it split up it still our responsibility to report it.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

There is one way you can stop 'gold-farmers' in their tracks.. its like this: you dont allow money trades between players.

Had this discussion before in a different thread - your suggestion doesn't stop gold farmers as they now trade to you valuable commodities by dumping cargo ... can't stop that as you kill the piracy role

 

[izzy]

Had this discussion before in a different thread - your suggestion doesn't stop gold farmers as they now trade to you valuable commodities by dumping cargo ... can't stop that as you kill the piracy role

Agree that would kill piracy ... I don't know there is good solution against that

 

[SnowGhost]

I'm more interested in knowing what Frontier's plans are regarding real cheating, rather than just gold farming bots.

How are they going to prevent hacking the client to allow for ships faster than 500m/s?
How about aim bots?
How about network sniffers that re-aim your shots if aim bots are prevented? (I guess encrypted network traffic resolves this one ... get yourself a good network card that does TCP encryption offload, ie, Intel, not a realtec P.o.S.)
How about a client hack that allows for a 200 light year hyperspace jump?

Most of these will be easy enough, because the server isn't there hand holding, to make sure the client isn't lieing.