Any ideas on a thargoid-resistant exploration vessel?

[roryclague]

With whispers of mysterious events in the Formidine Rift, the Pleiades, and elsewhere, I'm beginning to get a little nervous out here in the void, as an explorer. As neat as it might be to be that first explorer who is interdicted by the Thargoids or worse, I'd honestly prefer to keep my exploration data safe. I have little combat experience, but I do plan on getting some ship launched fighters and perhaps minimal armament for my annie the next time I'm in the bubble (which will, hopefully, be before the aliens invade). Since I'm totally out of the loop on fighting, I have no idea what setup could preserve a decent jump range but also be a viable foe against the Thargoids (I've spent virtually all of my time in Elite: Dangerous exploring in unarmed vessels, except for grinding for an Asp then an Anaconda back before DWE). Of course, without actually encountering the Thargoids, it is impossible to know what a viable defence against them entails.

Any ideas on a configuration for for an exploration ship (Asp or Anaconda) that might help defend against possible aliens but also maintain a decent (> 35 LY) jump range? I realise the Engineers may be required, but I know nothing of that system. For an Anaconda, how many weapon slots can you use before jump range is massively affected? What about shields? Right now I use 2D shields - probably not enough to stand against alien warships.

 

[Aura Lorell]

With whispers of mysterious events in the Formidine Rift, the Pleiades, and elsewhere, I'm beginning to get a little nervous out here in the void, as an explorer. As neat as it might be to be that first explorer who is interdicted by the Thargoids or worse, I'd honestly prefer to keep my exploration data safe. I have little combat experience, but I do plan on getting some ship launched fighters and perhaps minimal armament for my annie the next time I'm in the bubble (which will, hopefully, be before the aliens invade). Since I'm totally out of the loop on fighting, I have no idea what setup could preserve a decent jump range but also be a viable foe against the Thargoids (I've spent virtually all of my time in Elite: Dangerous exploring in unarmed vessels, except for grinding for an Asp then an Anaconda back before DWE). Of course, without actually encountering the Thargoids, it is impossible to know what a viable defence against them entails.

Any ideas on a configuration for for an exploration ship (Asp or Anaconda) that might help defend against possible aliens but also maintain a decent (> 35 LY) jump range? I realise the Engineers may be required, but I know nothing of that system. For an Anaconda, how many weapon slots can you use before jump range is massively affected? What about shields? Right now I use 2D shields - probably not enough to stand against alien warships.

I choose to believe that explorers will be safe. Worst case scenario for me is that I'll try to escape like I do with any interdiction. I also don't fight, I have no weapons, no boost, minimal shields, nothing in the utility slots. I'd rather keep my Asp's range instead of lowering it down. Trying to pre-empt something that we have absolutely no information for and we don't know if it's going to be an issue looks like a bad idea to me.

Having said that it's about your play style and your fun. So many people have flown exploration builds that are fully armed. You can get 40+ Ly range on Asps with engineer upgraded FSD and various other weapon weight modification upgrades, and close to 50 Ly for a Conda. Also with 2.2 you'll be able to have SLFs for the Conda. Beware though the engineer modifications will require significant time effort from you, especially if you have not unlocked any of them. For me I'd rather explore so the only engineer I use is Felicity Farseer for my FSD upgrades.

Hope this helps.

 

[roryclague]

Thanks for your reply, Rhea. I'm not looking forward to diving into the Engineers' game. The only reason I worry about explorers is a comment by Drew Wagar that we explorers need to become friends with the engineers. I'd honestly prefer to go about exploring as usual, but I will at minimum pick up some ship launched fighters when I finally make it to Colonia.

 

[newman1702]

It's impossible to give any advice on a build that is effective vs. Thargoids before we actually know anything about their ships and their tactical capabilities. Are our shields even effective against their weapons? Can lasers penetrate their hulls? Can kinetics? Are prismatics better than regular shields? What about armor? We just don't know.

In general, however, if you're not experienced in combat I'd say having weapons won't keep your data safe; engaging an enemy vessels keeps you in their line of fire longer, and if you don't have a combat capable ship you know how to handle in a fight, this will incur a greater risk of losing your data than simply running away. Therefore I'd say if you're not that much into combat you're better off investing in your ship's defensive capabilities, and run if interdicted. Things you can do in that respect are:

- Get good shielding. This one is kind of obvious, you can put engineer mods on both shields and shield boosters. You can actually save a lot of mass and still have great boosters if you engi mod E or D rated boosters. Not sure how resistances will work against aliens as we don't really know what we'll need to be resistant against, but at least one resistant augmented booster followed up by 2-3 heavy duty ones, with a reinforced mod on the generator itself would make your shields much better than anything you had stock.

- Armor: you probably don't want military grade bulkheads on an exploration ship as they really weigh you down and kill your jump range, but you can apply a heavy duty armor mod on your lightweight alloy bulkheads without gaining any additional mass but still making your armor a bit tougher. It will give you a few more seconds under fire when your shields go down. May not seem like much but a few seconds can make the difference between waking out and staring at the rebuy screen.

- Chaff, heatsinks, point defense. No telling how effective any of these would be against aliens, but they're good to have and don't weigh your ship down too much. Not a huge fan of PD turrets myself as they're not that effective, but the Conda won't have much chance of outrunning missiles so they may help a bit - but you'll need more than one otherwise don't even bother.

 

[Jackie Silver]

The peril I worry about is that we find ourselves yoinked into a situation where something is jamming (masslocking) our FSD and there's no way to escape save by destroying the source of the jamming. Under normal circumstances I'd recommend just taking half-decent shields and engines and jumping away from any trouble, but keeping at least a couple of guns on board might be essential. I'm carrying a couple of (engineered) multicannons on my Asp and the mass is trivial compared to other fittings. It's not a fighter - I tried to take on an NPC FAS yesterday and had to flee - but it can just about handle small ships.

 

[Nazdakka]

The trouble wth guns is that when you have them, you're more likely to find yourself using them when it's almost always going to be safer to bug out.

Think about it: In what situation would arming an exploration ship make sense against a Thargoid? If they're strong enough to masslock you, they're far too big for your lightweight exploration ship to fight anyway. Defensive mods that help you to stay alive seem far more worthwhile.

 

[Jackie Silver]

The trouble wth guns is that when you have them, you're more likely to find yourself using them when it's almost always going to be safer to bug out.

Think about it: In what situation would arming an exploration ship make sense against a Thargoid? If they're strong enough to masslock you, they're far too big for your lightweight exploration ship to fight anyway. Defensive mods that help you to stay alive seem far more worthwhile.

I used masslock in parenthesis, but I said jam - it is not a certainty that anything which can jam us is going to be too powerful to destroy. For example the alien probes can knock a ship's systems off-line.

However, for practical purposes I expect that details of the first alien encounter(s) will spread very quickly; if they do pose a threat, explorers will be able to hot-foot it to civilisation to refit for whatever the danger turns out to be. Because I don't like the idea of being caught unawares, even though it's very unlikely that I'll be the first person to encounter possibly-hostile aliens I'll prepare for the eventuality... ^^

 

[Ian Doncaster]

I would say - given that an explorer really wants 4 internals given over to exploration, plus a much larger scoop than the average combat ship, that for a combat capable vessel that doesn't compromise the exploration part of the outfit you're looking at Asp as the minimum, with Python or Anaconda being much easier to fit for combat, but having much shorter ranges.

You also need bigger shields, and then a bigger powerplant and distributor to power the weapons, and bigger drives to let you point the weapons in the right direction - none of this dropping them down a class or two to save weight (though the weapons you can put on Lightweight Mount without really affecting them, they're not the bit that really takes the weight - it's the extra core internals that are the big deal)

This is about what I'd go for with an Asp - which can easily be engineered back over 35LY range
https://coriolis.io/outfit/asp/0pft...a0i58v62i2f.AwRj4yNcg===.AzCMIgmaZBmYAWSw6JEA
You could switch the bulkheads to reinforced or military and still be able to get back over 35 LY, I think.

Anaconda you'll be lucky to get much over 30 LY in a combat/exploration hybrid, even with extensive engineering. I use a Python and get just over 25 LY fully engineered.

 

[popuptoaster]

Explorers who insist on running without defences will suffer eventually i think, there really is no need to maximise jump range unless you specifically want to go to the edges of the galaxy, so far they have mostly got away with but it wont last.

Those who remember the marauders arriving at Sag A will know what I mean, I run armed and sheilded, always have done and have never suffered in my explorations.

 

[marx]

Well, like others have said, we don't know yet what an alien threat will be like. What we do know is what human threats are like. I would add that the best way of defense is not getting hit in the first place; if you want a ship that can easily survive any interdiction, get one with enhanced thrusters. This would mean an Imperial Courier, or somewhat worse, an Adder. You can easily boost over 500 m/s that way, so even if you get interdicted, surviving that is as trivial as pressing a button.
You can get enhanced thrusters at the outfitting menu of engineers who do thruster upgrades: Felicity Farseer, Elvira Martuuk and Prof. Palin. Note that you don't need to have them ranked: as long as you can land at their bases (meaning you've received the invitation), you can go to outfitting and purchase the enhanced thrusters. You can mod those further then, but the speed benefits from that will be less than that of going from regular to enhanced thrusters.

However, nothing guarantees that you'll be able to outrun alien ships as well. For all we know, they might fly at 800 m/s and be able to easily mass-lock a Cutter. In which case there might be no choice but to fight back, or die. But against the current known threats, speed is the best defense.

If you want to have an idea of what builds are possible with engineers, and what mods you'll need for them, you might want to take a look here. As an added bonus, you'll be able to see what those builds look like without mods too.

 

[Kuroshio]

I don't know about Thargoids or other alien threats, but when I'm not flying my Python, I use that one: https://coriolis.io/outfit/asp/0pft...33c4a0i02v62i2f.Iw1-gDGQ.EwBhEYy6YFhWBmRYg===

Engineered to 40.33 LY, CDT level 3, resistance-enhanced boosters. (A-sensors are a pet peeve of mine, I know they are useless. ) I like dropping into every USS I see, so shields and weaponry are a necessity (and I'm quite good at running away when overwhelmed, I've never been worried about losing her.)

 

[Col Frost]

I have an Anaconda with a 51ly range, with 3 large turreted beam lasers (with engineered lightweight mounts plus experimental effect heat damage), plus a mulitcannon (again engineered).
To be honest now i'm out in the black, the sheer scale of the environment makes me think the chances of encountering anything or anyone are so small that my weapons are pointless.

 

[roryclague]

Some great replies and a lot to think about, thanks CMDRs. I think the points made about running vs staying to fight are important considerations. I will invest in better engines and better shields.

 

[Yanick]

Frontier have long hinted, that explorers are going to need to be armed soon.
I've got an Asp with good range (50ly) and light armaments. But as has been pointed out before, it's probably best to run.

 

[Cdr Voorheez]

Im playing with a shielded and fighter bay equipped anaconda at the minute in beta which I will probably use as my default explorer post 2.2.
Range compromised: yes but its still greater than pre 2.1.
Warm fuzzy feeling if I bump into aggressive intelligent life form: yep, but only in an evasive capacity, I will not be fitting weapons and completely agree with Cmdr Newman's appraisal of explorers and combat.

 

[Satsuma]

I used to fly an armed explorer back around launch time, but I've switched (like most others) to a lightly shielded weaponless ship. My one concession to survival is retaining the ability to boost with full-sized thrusters and a full-sized power distributor. I've gotten really good, flying cargo missions in an Asp, at the submit-boost-flee maneuver. I figure if that doesn't work against a Thargoid, no amount of weapons I fit on an Asp will help. Especially since, well, you know... It's an Asp. The A-rated combat Asp I used to get my engineered FSD had trouble with like-sized ships.

 

[popuptoaster]

I wouldn't assume that if it's powerful enough to catch you its also going to be impossible to kill, alien vessels could well be fast and fragile, or mount large weapons and no shields, or huge shields and no hull strength or any combination of lots of factors.


If the rumours and some of the lore are correct Thargoids used to hang out in witch space and could pluck ships right out of it so running may not even be an option, they might have to power up their equivalent of a FSD just to get in to our reality in the same way we use it to get out so fighting them off could be a matter of keeping them at bay until they can't stay any longer.

I'm hoping FD make them more interesting than just fast and weirdly shaped.

 

[Vasious]

I reckon that if there are hostile Entities, out in the void, they will only operate in a certain distinct area of space, so if an Explorer turely wishes to avoid the danager they will be able to do so by simply avoid the "Badlands" "Dragons be here" areas.

Remember avoidance trumps evasion, evasion trumps mitigation

 

[iain666]

I can run, I'm quite good at running. I can turn my shields back on if there are things appearing in the deep black I need to run from.

If there are things that the game mechanics require me to fight to continue then I'll just finish my trip in 1.x, assuming they won't be added to that. If they are I'll combat log home if I can and most likely ragequit if I can't.

 

[fieval]

I'm in the run camp too!

My Annie has max shields plus full load of Boosters (so about 1100 on shields).I haven't bothered with engineering any of these yet.

2 close in anti missile thingies, a lvl 3 clean drive upgrade, and can still jump just over 42LY. (More than enough for me...sure beats the old 34LY I used to be happy with).
No offensive weapons at all, I just Boost and jump.