Any news on the Engineers changes?
- Thread starter Viking84
- Start date
Sounds like you should check back in 2018 - was it March? That's a long time to wait, I'm going to carry on engineering - it's only the "always better" fudge after all, isn't it?
That's what I'm not clear on, there have been mentions of a material broker, there have been talks of "other great changes" but I don't think there is any detail available. I thought I heard the devs say there would be a live stream talking about the Engineers soon as well
That would indeed be very nice.
Any player to player interaction in the game would be welcome if you ask me... Feels like we're never doing stuff together, CMDR to CMDR, except from the basic form of communication "Greetings o7" -> "Fly safe o7".
Yes, the interaction is so important, to allow us to blaze our own trail. I who have left over MEFs should be able to trade them with a miner for his leftover tungsten, etc. We all get more of what we need while playing hte way we want to play. I have detailed how I foresee the implementation in the suggestions forum a VERY long time ago, back when this broker idea first surfaced.
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...ground-on-materials-broker-and-player-trading
We've disagreed about this before, and I'll reply to your thread on the topic for details
But more than anything, it's not relevant for this thread - I'm simply curious to know if there has been any word at all from the devs since the expo.
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Next stream with Sandro will be about Engineers (hopefully rework without any RNG anymore) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0545WHDzT7w&t=57m33s
I may also suggest people to read those 2 threads showing how wrong RNGneer design is :
https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/6g1ji5/serious_engineers_ironically_killed/
https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/6ft2z2/serious_engineers_and_the_grind/
I may also suggest people to read those 2 threads showing how wrong RNGneer design is :
https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/6g1ji5/serious_engineers_ironically_killed/
https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/6ft2z2/serious_engineers_and_the_grind/
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We've disagreed about this before
Oh really? Have you read the comments in that thread I linked citing actual reasons why the bot would be abused, where a player system would not?
I hate to say it mate, but do you seriously think that pvpers being able to outfit and field a new meta ship in a day is going to be good for pvp or the game in general? Tell me, how long do you think it takes a wow gladiator (I know, I competed, I wasn't very good at pvp in wow) to perfect his gear? It's weeks and it's an ongoing process. In that respect, Ed is on par.
Don't you think that if materials gathering wasn't so painful and we got more rolls each time we go, that the rolls are actually fine?
Do you personally feel that a 135% DD roll fighting a 140% DD roll has such an advantage that all skill is negated? I'm not suggesting it's not, it's a genuine question.
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Yes. Do you remember how way better PvP was before 2.1 ? Easy to access and mostly based on skill.
It is not about time but mechanic.
WoW system as a time limit because it is not based on RNG (like in ED powerplay, you know what gear and stats you will have). Also, you are getting your gear doing what you like (PvP).
Funny thing is Blizzard tried to make the PvP gearing system based on RNG (no PvP NPC) during Legion season 1 and it has been a disaster. They also implemented a bad luck ratio in order to increase players chance to loot a legendary part because once again RNG is a terrible game design.
Due to RNG, RNGneer has no time limit because you will always be able to improve. RNG is also what waste hours of boring and tedious grind.
No because the issue is not the grind but the RNG :
* RNG while grinding (making grinding even more boring and tedious)
* RNG on your roll values
* RNG for secondary effect
* RNG for secondary effect values
* RNG for special effect (weapons only)
The RNGneer exploit removed the grind aspect but RNGneer was still painful because of RNG. It was like beta with fish where you can brute force things and tests loadout. Variety emerge and you don't feel like wasting all the hours grindind because of RNG.
That is also why we always try to find the most effective way to grind (crack train, Dav's hope etc...) because we know this will be mostly wasted by RNG.
You can be very lucky and get a god roll after 10 try or be very unlucky and spend 10k to have it. It is not rewarding at all and is a barrier for players to get involved.
The last PvP league was done in stock ship with only 1 g1 module allowed per ship for a reason as well.
No and like you said in another post, it is about synergie (still the difference on my build equal 24 m/s which is pretty big). Skill will always be a factor but it is way less important than before 2.1
That's why we see terrible pilot performing well in god rolled Heavy duty shield loadout.
I god rolled my FAS (6k g5 rolls and i still need a better distro...) : https://eddp.co/u/pox6ZaBz
In order to run this build, you need specific rolls with specific secondaries. Do you think i have an advantage against a slightly engineered FAS ? Definitely yes.
Do you think i enjoyed playing the game grinding and gambling ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fEGFkbfBe8
IMO, the only good point of Engineers is the unlocking process (even if it was not perfect). As a PvP oriented players, i was not interested in mining/trading or exploring. Because it was required, i had to do those activities for a fair amount of time. Taking mining as an example, i don't really like it but enjoyed discovering it. I started without using prospector limpet and a really bad loadout but i learned and got way better and more effective.
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I really appreciate you taking the time to answer me in such a detailed way, thanks. I'll formulate a response with the detail it deserves later on, but I do agree with you that it's too many LAYERS of RNG, I'm just not sure that the rolls themselves are the major issue.
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Has there been any official word regarding the changes to the Engineers for 2018? Will there be a feedback forum? Very curious how this will play out - and I've put any thoughts of engineering my ships on hold until the changes are rolled out
I think there was plan for another Crime and Punishment stream with potential Sandro update and then Engineers after two weeks, just in time before Christmas.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
A bot can be designed to be abuse resistant - whereas players can collude....
Care to provide an example?
Players colluding, with a view to....what? This is materials trader, so the worst abuse is an unfair or unbalanced trade. So let's say to be succinct, trading low mats for high mats.
So player 1 says to player 2: "hey, I'l set up a trade on the materials trader for 10 sulphur for your 100 CIFs, k, you accept."
Player 2 says: "Why the holy hell would I want to do that?" Whole proposition falls over right there, because why would any player trade something low value for something high value?
OR, player 2 says "Sure", because player 1 is a friend and they want to help them. I have no issue with that, or anyone else who is happy to trade one mat for another in any quantity for any reason. When you've gathered your mats you put in the time, you can do whatever you want with them.
Ah, I hear you say, but what about someone offering 100CIF on the internet for 100 real dollars (more like 1000 lol), and creating an unbalanced trade of 100CIF for one sulphur that someone can accept after they've paid their money...? Yes, this would be an issue if rules weren't put in place. For example, a simple check that makes sure a trade isn't ridiculously unbalanced, for example, it checks requested material, its grade 3, it checks offered material, its grade 4. It checks the amounts, and, for example, on the simplest level simply says 'if the number of grade 3s is not between 1.5 and 3 times the number of grade 4s, then do not allow the trade, display message 'This is an unbalanced trade, trying increasing the number of lower quality mats you offer or decreasing the number of higher quality mats you require in return.', just like a bot, most abuses can be covered by rules. One promotes player interaction and the other does not.
There is however, 1 big issue with the suggestion and that is "who is ever going to want to trade CIF?" And the answer is, yeh, not many right now. So a bot AS WELL would probably be ideal with a simple ruleset, any 3 grade 4s for a grade 5, etc, but they don't need to be mutually exclusive.
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"To err is human, but to really foul things up you need a computer." - Paul R. Ehrlich