Any Saitek X-56 HOTAS Hardware (or maybe USB) Experts Out There?

Caydran

Caydran
Since Odyssey was installed, I have had a particular problem with my Stick buttons dropping out, but only the top half of the Stick, just the Buttons.

The Throttle and all of it's buttons and the bottom half of the Stick's Axis's, all work in game, only the top half of the Stick seems to drop out. The LED's on the Stick are always on.

As a quick workaround, when this happens, I unplug the Stick from the USB port and plug it back in and everything is fine again, until it drops out. Seems to happen just after I land and get the station menu, then the buttons on the Stick drop out. Or, when in my SRV and wanting to set pips, or scan something, the Stick buttons drop out.

I thought I had a dead Stick so I asked Saitek for an RMA return. They did not want my old equipment back and told me to recycle it after sending me a new HOTAS.

Well, I kept the old stuff and tried the new HOTAS, with exactly the same results. It's not the HOTAS. So, I started looking at the USB ports. They seem to be solid and I have not detected any dropouts on the USB ports.

So, I'm stumped. The only thing I can think of is Odyssey changed something in the way the top half of my Stick performs in game and looses connection with the Stick buttons. I also tried swapping the top half of the Stick itself from the old unit to the new one. Same problem. I tried the other base and the new Stick. Did nothing.

Anyone got any idea of what changed? I was thinking Odyssey has four control profiles for different aspects of the game, general, ship, srv, on-foot, and it seems that only "ship" and "srv" Stick controls are affected. My best quess.

Any thoughts would be appreciated and "No, @Bottom Hat, You can't have my stuff".
 

Maolagin

M
Are the stick and throttle plugged directly into the PC, or going through a hub or anything? Every time I've had this kind of problem, it's been related to USB connections. That's why the usual advice is to keep your HOTAS devices plugged directly into the computer.
 

cmdr milesred

cmdr milesred
there are many threads on this topic
If you have a usb meter so you can see the voltage and the current..? then you can safely say its healthy and not the problem.
but
usb port not providing enough power is the #1 cause for flight stick drop-outs as you describe.

the sticks should all be sold with a very clear rating that is true and accurate, they are not.
same for usb ports, the are rated nicely, but many off the shelf devices have bad usb power.

the 2 best solutions are to use a usb adapter splitter, then you use the power from 2 ports.
or use a powered external usb 3 4 port hub and plug it into your best usb 2 port on the pc.

being a Saitek, try disabling your LED's. it might help a little.

if your usb port/s have been damaged, they can still function but often are no longer capable of providing power properly.
they don't always die 100% as they are multi-functional.

If you can detect consistent 5.2v while being used under an actual load, that is a good port.
 

optiplex

optiplex
My stick will only work properly if it is plugged directly into a usb 2 port. If i have it in the usb 3 it will drop out or ghost
 

cmdr milesred

cmdr milesred
I know.
that's why if you use an external usb 3 powered hub, you plug it into the usb 2 port on your pc.
the usb 3 hub simply provides enough power, there are no usb 3 drivers or other things here.

for some of the flight sticks, the drivers are only for usb 2. but for many, the power that usb 3 can provide is needed to work.
so the cheaper solution is the 2male into 1female usb splitter.
there are 2 kinds, 1 splits the entire usb(no good for this), the other, the one to use has data+power on 1 plug and power only on the 2nd plug. allowing you to draw the power from 2 ports.

the thing is that it only takes a millisecond of the power on the port to fluctuate for windows to then see there is no device there suddenly.
and for ED that often means sudden change to keybinds too because the controller is no longer visible.

I use the 4 port powered usb 3 hub. I have a few on this pc, but the one for my Saitek works fine on the usb3 hub that then plugs into usb2 on my pc

I also happen to be an electronics tech and pc tech and beside the usual multi-meters, I have several usb meters. they are cheap and worth having.
After buying my first Saitek back in 2014, I had the same issue. when I figured out why, I sent them an email suggesting they put such a splitter into each package, or at least a note suggesting a person get one or a powered hub.
The email was technical proof, proving to them what was the cause and suggestions to fix it.
They ofc....ignored.

the jist was and still is that the flight sticks and their L.E.D.'s often use more than the 500ma that a usb 2 port can provide.
some pc's can deal with it just fine, others cannot.
 
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Caydran

Caydran
Maolagin said:
Are the stick and throttle plugged directly into the PC, or going through a hub or anything? Every time I've had this kind of problem, it's been related to USB connections. That's why the usual advice is to keep your HOTAS devices plugged directly into the computer.
Click to expand...
For added clarity, I have the Stick and Throttle plugged directly into the back of the motherboard (MSI-MPG x570) on separate USB 2.0 ports. One device per USB port, with no other devices sharing said ports. Given my manuals description of these ports, I think they are powered providing 5vdc to each.

I did, for awhile, have them plugged into the 3.1 USB ports, but ghosting was an issue and solved by moving them to USB 2.0 ports. I did for awhile, try a powered USB 2.0 Hub, but that caused too many problems. Saitek's website states they are USB 2.0 devices and only require a USB 2.0 port for compliance.

There is a file which has a service associated with it called Saitek/Logitech "DirectOutput" which, from what I can tell, is the LED driver for the HOTAS. I think the HOTAS, with LED's running, is drawing too much power (more than 500ma) from the MB USB 2.0 ports which are rated as maximum of 500ma per port. It seems unusual that a USB 2.0 powered Hub would not solve this, but seems to introduce more problems being at a higher amperage rating.

As MilesRed states, I will try a USB 3.1 Powered HUB plugged into the MB's USB 2.0 Port and see if I get better results.

It does, after all, seem to be a power related problem, either driven by the LED's themselves, or the file and service called Logitech/Saitek "DirectOutput".

MilesRed, what is this USB Splitter you mentioned? Got a picture or link?
 

Crank Larson

Crank Larson
I have the same motherboard though have no issues with the X56. I usually use the USB2 ports (where the BIOS update function is), but have used all of them with no issues. I did have issues getting the HP G2 to work with it - that needed a hub (the new G2 has one built in) - but that was an HP issue.

As others have mentioned, X56 issues are normally cause by lack of power.
 

cmdr milesred

cmdr milesred
it is the led's and the method they use to control them that cause the issue.
its good to know you have MSI, they are good.

sadly though the voltage only needs to drop 1mv at just the right time for windows to lose it. and voltage drops slightly as current increases
so, by the led's going from off to full tilt is usually enough to go over 500ma, then it is more dependent on the MB as to whether or not the ports can take it
and even though Q.C. is high in places that make these, it isn't always enough.
and the main reason a usb 2 hub would not help is because it too only puts out 500ma. usb 3 can put out well over 1A. its not the wires its the chips.
usb 3 uses extra data lines not extra power lines, but the chips (depending on manufacturer and MB manufacturer can put out 1A to 5A.
 

Caydran

Caydran
cmdr milesred said:
it is the led's and the method they use to control them that cause the issue.
its good to know you have MSI, they are good.

sadly though the voltage only needs to drop 1mv at just the right time for windows to lose it. and voltage drops slightly as current increases
so, by the led's going from off to full tilt is usually enough to go over 500ma, then it is more dependent on the MB as to whether or not the ports can take it
and even though Q.C. is high in places that make these, it isn't always enough.
and the main reason a usb 2 hub would not help is because it too only puts out 500ma. usb 3 can put out well over 1A. its not the wires its the chips.
usb 3 uses extra data lines not extra power lines, but the chips (depending on manufacturer and MB manufacturer can put out 1A to 5A.
Click to expand...
I measured the voltage/amperage coming off the USB 2.0 ports I am using. I verified it with an app called USBDeview.exe which will also show you the amperage being generated by the USB Ports.

For the Stick: 5v/150ma.
For the Throttle: 5v/160ma.

No where near the 500ma I expected the devices to use. Total was less than 310ma.

I also found that deleting/uninstalling a file and service called Saitek "DirectOutput" (the LED Driver) seems to solve my issues. I think this file and service interferes with the LED voltage/amperage and causes the LED's to go off and back on at inappropriate times.

In any event, problem solved. Thanks for the link to the splitter.
 

Saltyseadog

Saltyseadog
cmdr milesred said:
I know.
that's why if you use an external usb 3 powered hub, you plug it into the usb 2 port on your pc.
the usb 3 hub simply provides enough power, there are no usb 3 drivers or other things here.

for some of the flight sticks, the drivers are only for usb 2. but for many, the power that usb 3 can provide is needed to work.
so the cheaper solution is the 2male into 1female usb splitter.
there are 2 kinds, 1 splits the entire usb(no good for this), the other, the one to use has data+power on 1 plug and power only on the 2nd plug. allowing you to draw the power from 2 ports.

the thing is that it only takes a millisecond of the power on the port to fluctuate for windows to then see there is no device there suddenly.
and for ED that often means sudden change to keybinds too because the controller is no longer visible.

I use the 4 port powered usb 2 hub. I have a few on this pc, but the one for my Saitek works fine on the usb3 hub that then plugs into usb2 on my pc

I also happen to be an electronics tech and pc tech and beside the usual multi-meters, I have several usb meters. they are cheap and worth having.
After buying my first Saitek back in 2014, I had the same issue. when I figured out why, I sent them an email suggesting they put such a splitter into each package, or at least a note suggesting a person get one or a powered hub.
The email was technical proof, proving to them what was the cause and suggestions to fix it.
They ofc....ignored.

the jist was and still is that the flight sticks and their L.E.D.'s often use more than the 500ma that a usb 2 port can provide.
some pc's can deal with it just fine, others cannot.
Click to expand...
Since buying my Logitech X56 around 18mths ago I have experienced lots of ghosting issues and tried all of the recommended "fixes" I found online but nothing cured it completely. A USB 3.0 powered hub did help for a bit. I then bought a USB 3.0 Y- connection which is two USB 3.0 female outputs onto one male and plugged into an unused USB3.0 slot on my motherboard.

This did give me a more settled X56 but if I didn't play for a couple of days or knocked the throttle or joystick it would set it all off again and there would be no other recourse than shut EDO down re-calibrate the X56, reboot the PC and all would be fine until the next time.

Reading this thread when it appeared in May and finding your post I took your advice and plugged the powered USB3.0 in again but this time into a USB2.0 socket in the back of my PC and Bobs your uncle I haven't had a single problem with my X56 while playing every day for nigh on three weeks now. Thanks for posting this fix which appears to be the solution to the ghosting issues many many X56 owners have suffered. I wonder if a mod could put it on a header or somesuch as a proper fix. Thanks a lot. 👍
 

STRONTIUM DOG

STRONTIUM DOG
any power related issues should show in the binding errors log as device missing not recognised etc as volts drop can have the same effect as a disconnection if even for a few millisecond or can cause phantom ghosting inputs
voltage on the rails is important to be sure but volts drop through a device and milliamp board output restrictions may applie its a funny old game as resistances can change on joystick input devices with time and usage etc carbon scoring builds up on micro switch contacts with use
(there were double bind type issues with pppatch 12 should now be resolved so bear that in mind...………
could not use text fields without control errors cropping up)
 
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Drannon

Drannon
Sorry if this doesn't apply but have you disabled USB selective suspense settings? I had a similar issue with my Tartarus dropping off and that took care of it for me.

Also, if you're playing through Steam I've had issues in the past with other peripherals overriding HOTAS.
 
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