Apparently I suck at dogfights - advice needed

KaizoMK

KaizoMK
With A class thrusters on my viper and 4 pips in engines, I cannot for the life of me stay up on an eagle or a vulture (we get into endless circle bouts or I get some distance then get a few shots off before I have to try to turn to meet him.) This became a problem after 1.3, and although I don't lose single fights it takes absolutely forever to kill eagles or anyone else that's fast now really. Frustrated as I am, I have concluded that this is a good thing, and I probably just suck.

I haven't seen any good guides for advanced maneuvering or dog fight tactics. Should I expect every eagle fight to last for days even though my weapons tear right through it? Or is there a strategy or technical aspect I'm missing?
 

mossfoot

mossfoot
KaizoMK said:
With A class thrusters on my viper and 4 pips in engines, I cannot for the life of me stay up on an eagle or a vulture (we get into endless circle bouts or I get some distance then get a few shots off before I have to try to turn to meet him.) This became a problem after 1.3, and although I don't lose single fights it takes absolutely forever to kill eagles or anyone else that's fast now really. Frustrated as I am, I have concluded that this is a good thing, and I probably just suck.

I haven't seen any good guides for advanced maneuvering or dog fight tactics. Should I expect every eagle fight to last for days even though my weapons tear right through it? Or is there a strategy or technical aspect I'm missing?
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You could boost, turn flight assist off to get a tighter turn, for example.
 

YoBuck

YoBuck
Do you boost and use FA off? Are you taking advantage of your thrusters?
for me there are no rules to piloting it's more countering what the other pilot is up to. Trying to get on your target is a lot easyer for me anyway by watching what he is upto.
For me it works. Get into that 3d space and counter his moves, before long getting on them is fairly easy. Depending on your opponent obviously :)

edit; ninja'd by moss
 
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KaizoMK

KaizoMK
I think the problem is that other ships are better at turning than I am...I've tried the boost-offassist but it usually just puts me super far away from the target. I need to be within 2km just to hit with pulse lasers, closer if I'm using cannons. And I noticed your damage tends to increase the closer you are to them?

So am I just not doing that maneuver properly then?

EDIT: thanks for the feedback, I figured it wasn't something that can just be boiled down to rules, but I thought some basics were simple enough. I didn't really know where to start before this, but it sounds like ditching flight assist is a good start.
 
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DrakeAurum

DrakeAurum
The Viper's not great in a turning fight, though I haven't found it terribly problematic. Try making attack runs at your target and then boosting away.
 

Arry

Arry
What are you flying, has to be my 1st question. (Viper, I see.)

However, I have also found eagles to be a bit tricky. They die very quickly; if you can keep them in your sights. All else fails, try reverse. As they come at you head on, fly backwards, making your hit time longer and they don't get to pass you, thus, not running rings around you etc.

Arry.
 
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Arjin

Arjin
KaizoMK said:
With A class thrusters on my viper and 4 pips in engines, I cannot for the life of me stay up on an eagle or a vulture (we get into endless circle bouts or I get some distance then get a few shots off before I have to try to turn to meet him.) This became a problem after 1.3, and although I don't lose single fights it takes absolutely forever to kill eagles or anyone else that's fast now really. Frustrated as I am, I have concluded that this is a good thing, and I probably just suck.

I haven't seen any good guides for advanced maneuvering or dog fight tactics. Should I expect every eagle fight to last for days even though my weapons tear right through it? Or is there a strategy or technical aspect I'm missing?
Click to expand...

Firstly you can send a thank you note to Sarah! Secondly remember space is 360 every single direction so utilize FA off in tight lateral or vertical flight lines.
 

Minoo Minou

Minoo Minou
You should use your lateral/up/down thrusters too, it helps to turn and can correct your vector when you are behind your target.

Otherwise, it's interesting to see all this threads about combat difficulties recently :D
 

Saool

Saool
Whilst I am no ace, I find things like strafing the opposite way you your pitch can help, or rolling 45 degrees and adding a yaw to the pitch.

My issue is Condas. Even in a Vulture I struggle. I find I am having to lateral strafe and boost constantly to try and stay out of their seemingly 360 degree global fire arcs.
 
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TheDayman

TheDayman
Some of this can be attributed to your setup. I flew a Viper for a LONG time before I got my Vulture. 2 fixed large pulse lasers on that thing tear through Eagles. For my Viper though, since it was not as maneuverable but much faster, I found that dual beam lasers on the small top slots and dual gimballed multi-cannons on the medium bottom slots which worked quite well for PvE.
 

Derath

D
Firstly, ignore all the FA-Off brigade,

Secondly you need to evaluate mid turn where you want to be in respect to your target, if you can't turn enough you need to swap to bluezone reverse and use the directional thruster in the opposite direction to your target, this widens your curve slightly while keeping the distances fairly similar.

The opposite is true if your target is getting too far away, you are constantly trying to keep them at the perfect sweet spot for your ships turning compared to its range, for vultures this is very close - as their handling is pretty much peerless, but the larger your ship the further out this gets.
 

TheDayman

TheDayman
Saool said:
Whilst I am no ace, I find things like strafing the opposite way you your pitch can help, or rolling 45 degrees and adding a yaw to the pitch.

My issue is Condas. Even in a Vulture I struggle. I find I am having to lateral strafe and boost constantly to try and stay out of their seemingly 360 degree global fire arcs.
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Conda's and Pythons are the easiest in a Vulture. Just stay on their rear and use chaff (which works against turrets in 1.3 finally!). If they use FA off, just keep strafing around them vertically. 9 times out of 10 multi-cannons are used on NPC Conda's which a Vulture's shields should repel easily.
 
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Samosa

Samosa
Minoo Minou said:
You should use your lateral/up/down thrusters too, it helps to turn and can correct your vector when you are behind your target.
Click to expand...

This. If you're pulling back to try to get to your target but they're too close, thrust down at the same time and it increases your distance, which can help.
 

Xander Phoenix

X
I have -50% thrust to one of my macros, it helps a lot to get an enemy in your sites thats circling you because it helps you turn faster And gets some distance between you.
 

Arjin

Arjin
Derath said:
Firstly, ignore all the FA-Off brigade,

Secondly you need to evaluate mid turn where you want to be in respect to your target, if you can't turn enough you need to swap to bluezone reverse and use the directional thruster in the opposite direction to your target, this widens your curve slightly while keeping the distances fairly similar.

The opposite is true if your target is getting too far away, you are constantly trying to keep them at the perfect sweet spot for your ships turning compared to its range, for vultures this is very close - as their handling is pretty much peerless, but the larger your ship the further out this gets.
Click to expand...

Why does he have to ignore FA off advice?? it's a very valid combat technique? You could have said, alternatively to FA off maneuvers?? Are you FA off challenged?
 
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KaizoMK

KaizoMK
I've generally used lateral thrusters in combination with pitching (nose up/down, hope I got that right) to turn quickly. It's worked in most situations until 1.3, now it's not very helpful.
 

Rankaze

Rankaze
OP: Every Viper pilot goes through this phase, and it's an important one to learning to fly the Viper (and other ships with similar handling characteristics, like the Imperial Courier and the Fer-de-Lance) properly.

The first thing you must understand is that the Eagle and the Vulture both have a tighter turning radius than you. Thus, engaging in a conventional turning battle puts you at a disadvantage. Don't do it.

How, then, to avoid the turning battle? Consider your assets. You are faster, both in regular and boosted speeds. With this, you can dictate the terms of engagement. You can disengage and re-engage at will. If you break off and boost away, you can open the range very quickly.

You have better lateral and vertical thrusters. Use your thrust controls to augment your maneuvers. While pitching up, thrust upward to tighten your turn and close the range, or thrust down to widen your turn, swinging out behind your enemy and opening the range.

Use your speed to outflank your foe. You can use FA Off to great effect to snipe at an enemy during a high speed pass. Be mindful of asteroids when doing this trick!

Remember that you're flying a spaceship. You don't have to point your nose in the direction you're flying. Learn to use FAOff. I advise practicing controlling the ship via FAOff when approaching outposts to dock, to align yourself to the pad while approaching at odd angles. You can learn a lot about how your ship moves in this way.

Once you learn to use all the tools at your disposal, you'll wipe the floor with Eagles and most NPC Vultures. PC Vultures... those are tough birds. But you'll be better equipped to face them than you are now.

Oh, one more thing. Manage your pips. The Viper is sluggish with 0 pips in ENG. It needs power to dance.
 
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