arcade or sim future?

[Xyzeto]

I'm an old fan of x3 series (reunion, terran conflict)
in simple words ... if only ED was 20% complex as x3 was, it will be a dream game for a simulation fan.
now Holo me... last thing I was waiting for, sorry guys. I appreciate your hard work, but making a scientific real galaxy and adding a lot of arcadish things just doesn't work.

 

[Pengman19]

I agree completely.

The Holo Me definitely impacted the realism factor. I think it's a good idea for the little fighters, having the physical character on the mothership. But, if I want to multi-crew with a friend, we should have to meet up at a station. I should have to board his ship.

Also, I'm not a fan of how they are handling rewards for multi-crew. The ship's captain should determine the % cut of money for each person on the crew. Everyone shouldn't get the same amount of money. That's massively unrealistic.

I know they are trying to encourage people to play multi-crew, but all they are doing is hurting the value of a dollar. The BENEFIT of multi-crew should be playing with friends, and the ADVANTAGE of having two humans controlling the guns, and a third in a fighter, etc. You make MORE money because you kill MORE people. That's the benefit. Giving everyone the same amount of money is absurd. Doesn't make any sense to me at all.

I really think Elite should join forces with Zero Gravity Games (Hellion) and focus on doing as many realistic things as possible. Most people who want to play a space simulator want emphasis on the SIMULATOR part. And I know it's still a video game, but, to me, that argument only applies to some things.

 

[Lngjohnsilver1]

I do not know X3... but holo-me - ditto. And you can't even mod body shape - not even 3 or 4 types just one stock type...thats pretty beige and doesn't add anything right now. Real loss of focus by FDev on that one I think.

 

[Lestat]

Best idea to go back to X3. Elite Dangerous is a Different game.

 

[Xyzeto]

Elite Dangerous is a Different game.

are you for real?

 

[Lestat]

are you for real?

Yes I real. You also have to remember Elite has 31 years or gaming history. While x series is 18 years of history. A lot of older players likes the way Elite was made.

 

[Vision1776]

I'm an old fan of x3 series (reunion, terran conflict)
in simple words ... if only ED was 20% complex as x3 was, it will be a dream game for a simulation fan.
now Holo me... last thing I was waiting for, sorry guys. I appreciate your hard work, but making a scientific real galaxy and adding a lot of arcadish things just doesn't work.

It just seems that things like RNGineers, Powerplay, and Holo Me just dont fit into the game. Almost like a tacked on separate game. but again, it is probably too late now. Game features with ED seem to get added on without any consideration or allowing the community to give feedback before they work on these features.

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Yes I real. You also have to remember Elite has 31 years or gaming history. While x series is 18 years of history. A lot of older players likes the way Elite was made.

Your argument makes no sense because Holo-Me didnt even exist in the original ED did it?

 

[careBear1]

...............a scientific real galaxy...............

Think I must have downloaded the wrong game then

 

[Lestat]

Your argument makes no sense because Holo-Me didnt even exist in the original ED did it?

Thing is we should not copy another game like x series. Or it just a copy of x seires under a different name. Now I agree Holo Me not in the original game. But we don't see it in other games do we?

 

[Kirth]

appreciate your hard work, but making a scientific real galaxy and adding a lot of arcadish things just doesn't work.

Its based upon the galaxy, but its not a realistic simulation of the galaxy. The ships have always been based upon 'planes in space' - which is obviously non-scientific, the sound design is great, but again not realistic, again and again, Elite: Dangerous is a mix of realism and arcade and has always been.

 

[Lngjohnsilver1]

Its based upon the galaxy, but its not a realistic simulation of the galaxy. The ships have always been based upon 'planes in space' - which is obviously non-scientific, the sound design is great, but again not realistic, again and again, Elite: Dangerous is a mix of realism and arcade and has always been.

This is a consistent argument rammed up against FDev, and I sympathise but...

1) a REAL LIFE physic accurate space game probably wouldn't be a FUN game
2) a games soundscape can really make or break a game - a totally silent game would not be much fun. You could of course run the soundscape as your ships internal audio but... I'm not os worried that real ships don't make those noises...etc.etc.
3) D Braben has always maintained that the Galaxy simulator is as 'real' as they can make it - but I don't think they are attempting to maintain tat 100% of things in ED are 'realistic' - how could they?
4) I suppose another consideration might be - in the 1950's very few people imagined such possibilities as WIFI, mobile phablets, CT Scanners etc. Arguing that 'this' or 'that' isn't real for the year 3303, is a bit salty.
5) Last point, I think perhaps definitions of 'arcade' are fluid. I see an arcade game as something with flashing lights and booming noises that can be picked up and put down and is a pew-pew blast fest over in a few minutes / hour at maximum. ED is intended to be a MASSIVE experience/. I think the proposed game time for Witcher is 180 hours, and elite is supposed to be 'endless' so the features contained are meant to take time, meant to take the player through a galaxy of developments and experiences as they get to know how the ED Universe exists and the interactions within it. Consequently it should NOT be arcadish in any way. But yes, adding arcade type features (Looking at you CQC), seems to be a nod to a more A.D.D. crowd incapable of setting and managing their own long term goals and expectations who want a 20 hour gameplay experience not a 2000 hour gameplay experience. I just think the short-term arcade gamers enticed to look at ED are often, HUGELY dissapointed - but then so they should be, they just got in the wrong game. Engineers is not in my opinion an arcade feature and neither is Powerplay - they are just contentious in their application.

 

[Vision1776]

This is a consistent argument rammed up against FDev, and I sympathise but...

1) a REAL LIFE physic accurate space game probably wouldn't be a FUN game
2) a games soundscape can really make or break a game - a totally silent game would not be much fun. You could of course run the soundscape as your ships internal audio but... I'm not os worried that real ships don't make those noises...etc.etc.
3) D Braben has always maintained that the Galaxy simulator is as 'real' as they can make it - but I don't think they are attempting to maintain tat 100% of things in ED are 'realistic' - how could they?
4) I suppose another consideration might be - in the 1950's very few people imagined such possibilities as WIFI, mobile phablets, CT Scanners etc. Arguing that 'this' or 'that' isn't real for the year 3303, is a bit salty.
5) Last point, I think perhaps definitions of 'arcade' are fluid. I see an arcade game as something with flashing lights and booming noises that can be picked up and put down and is a pew-pew blast fest over in a few minutes / hour at maximum. ED is intended to be a MASSIVE experience/. I think the proposed game time for Witcher is 180 hours, and elite is supposed to be 'endless' so the features contained are meant to take time, meant to take the player through a galaxy of developments and experiences as they get to know how the ED Universe exists and the interactions within it. Consequently it should NOT be arcadish in any way. But yes, adding arcade type features (Looking at you CQC), seems to be a nod to a more A.D.D. crowd incapable of setting and managing their own long term goals and expectations who want a 20 hour gameplay experience not a 2000 hour gameplay experience. I just think the short-term arcade gamers enticed to look at ED are often, HUGELY dissapointed - but then so they should be, they just got in the wrong game. Engineers is not in my opinion an arcade feature and neither is Powerplay - they are just contentious in their application.

Not to deviate off topic but I would have liked to see sounds be a bit more realistic. I mean, I should be able to hear the sounds my ship makes but to hear the explosions on the other ship kind of ruins it for me. I would have liked to hear my ship reloading missiles or my shields reflecting fire, or by armor being shredded by lasers. They can make sound more realistic and even more immersive imo without having to make it arcady. I think it might be too late but it would have been nice to have an option where sounds that are created by your ship would still play but sounds outside your ship would be off.

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Think I must have downloaded the wrong game then

Actually the galaxy itself is probably the best thing they have in elite dangerous. The "Stellar Forge" is done pretty nicely. It does represent a very realistic and scientific galaxy based on what we know today. As far as gameplay goes, I dont fully agree that it needs to be 100% realistic because this is science fiction based on a very distant future. I think what the OP is really trying to say is that Frontier seem to break their own rules sometimes when they make gameplay mechanics. To me there doesnt seem to be a real set a rules that they have to live by and instead, it seems ( I might be wrong), they take an easy route on some of the game features and end up breaking what were well known rules. If I can Holo-Me onto a ship anywhere in this galaxy, then why cant I holo-me into a distant space station to see prices there or take missions? This is just one example, there are several more but I dont want to get into it really.

 

[space pilot]

now Holo me... last thing I was waiting for, sorry guys. I appreciate your hard work, but making a scientific real galaxy and adding a lot of arcadish things just doesn't work.

It wasn't the best idea.

As for sound transmission, I think that could be faked with translation of visuals, which would be a useful tool that would be worth installing on a ship. Cameras on the outside of the ship pick up things like laser fire and convert it to a ray gun sound.

 

[Lngjohnsilver1]

As for sound transmission, I think that could be faked with translation of visuals, which would be a useful tool that would be worth installing on a ship. Cameras on the outside of the ship pick up things like laser fire and convert it to a ray gun sound.

Like your thinking, of course if you go too far down that road you could argue why have a cockpit at all - it seems inherently dangerous to have a big wall of glass in a highly radioactive zero atmosphere environment when people are shooting at you with lasers or rail guns when you could be hidden in an armoured cell using VR mapped from external cameras but then what would the ships looks like.......

 

[space pilot]

The canopies could be a little tougher to avoid thoughts of going down that road.

 

[Lngjohnsilver1]

see through aluminium

 

[Jaiotu]

Most people who want to play a space simulator want emphasis on the SIMULATOR part. And I know it's still a video game, but, to me, that argument only applies to some things.

That is not entirely true.

I do enjoy games that are true "Space Simulators" like Kerbal Space Program and Orbiter. These games simulate a high degree of realism in their constraints against FTL travel and the use of pure Newtonian physics. When I play these games it's because I want to enjoy those limitations.

Elite: Dangerous is a different kind of "Space Simulator" where the "space" isn't a reference is less NASA "spaceflight" and more Hollywood "space movies".

Of course we can hear explosions going on around us! Anyone who's watched Flash Gordon, Buck Rogers, Star Trek or Star Wars knows that sound travels in a vacuum.

Elite: Dangerous should be billed as a science fiction simulator.

 

[space pilot]

Elite: Dangerous should be billed as a science fiction simulator.

I guess they did have telepresence in Star Wars...

But of course it was magic, not sci-fi.

 

[Kosmetas]

Same ole thread about the game not being realistic... give it a break. You can still play the old game if you truly miss it.

 

[careBear1]

N

Actually the galaxy itself is probably the best thing they have in elite dangerous. The "Stellar Forge" is done pretty nicely. It does represent a very realistic and scientific galaxy based on what we know today. As far as gameplay goes, I dont fully agree that it needs to be 100% realistic because this is science fiction based on a very distant future. I think what the OP is really trying to say is that Frontier seem to break their own rules sometimes when they make gameplay mechanics. To me there doesnt seem to be a real set a rules that they have to live by and instead, it seems ( I might be wrong), they take an easy route on some of the game features and end up breaking what were well known rules. If I can Holo-Me onto a ship anywhere in this galaxy, then why cant I holo-me into a distant space station to see prices there or take missions? This is just one example, there are several more but I dont want to get into it really.

The game is arbitrary magic. And would be rubbish otherwise.
Some game aspects reflect (to some extent) some aspects of known reality. However it is not a simulation of reality. Whether it is an arcade game, I do not know (or care); nor am I sure what this means.
And for the avoidance of doubt, I like the arbitrary magic that is Elite - as I did in 1983 ish.
Agree about reasonable internal consistency, but in the end don't care too much as fun is more important (to me) as long as not too many liberties are taken. But what this means is obviously a personal judgement. In the end we are probably all doing little more than booing or cheering and seeking reasons (post hoc) why we are right and others wrong.