Are cannons really even worth bothering?

[Butter of Sorrow]

After a little back and forth comparison between them, multi-cannons and frag-cannons I just can't help but feel they kinda suck. The slow fire-rate alone gives them an unreliable accuracy and dps compared to either of the other alternatives.

So can anyone say do they have some redeeming value I might have overlooked? I suppose one thing worth noting is that class 3 multi-cannons don't exist so there's that.

 

[paulca]

Try using lasers to take out the big ship's sheilds.

Then get close enough to him that you could reach out and draw a peace sign on his hull. Pump him full of cannon then. Watch his hull melt.

 

[DefiledDragon]

I like multi cannons. Their low power draw and heat buildup allow you a bit more freedom when managing your power mid fight and they do good damage to modules. The only issue I have with them is that you don't get enough ammunition and there's nothing you can do about it. If there were a module that trebled the amount of ammo you could carry I would sacrifice a slot for it, but there isn't. Frag cannons and regular cannons make for good secondary weapons, but they too suffer from a low ammo count. I only ever fit weapons that use physical ammunition if I know I'm not leaving the bubble for any length of time because you just don't get enough ammo, with any of them.

 

[Roland2]

I like multi cannons. Their low power draw and heat buildup allow you a bit more freedom when managing your power mid fight and they do good damage to modules. The only issue I have with them is that you don't get enough ammunition and there's nothing you can do about it. If there were a module that trebled the amount of ammo you could carry I would sacrifice a slot for it, but there isn't. Frag cannons and regular cannons make for good secondary weapons, but they too suffer from a low ammo count. I only ever fit weapons that use physical ammunition if I know I'm not leaving the bubble for any length of time because you just don't get enough ammo, with any of them.

Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not in the game right now to look, but can't you craft ammunition for the multi-cannon using items picked up on planets?

 

[Zazzilas Arden]

I like multi cannons. Their low power draw and heat buildup allow you a bit more freedom when managing your power mid fight and they do good damage to modules. The only issue I have with them is that you don't get enough ammunition and there's nothing you can do about it. If there were a module that trebled the amount of ammo you could carry I would sacrifice a slot for it, but there isn't. Frag cannons and regular cannons make for good secondary weapons, but they too suffer from a low ammo count. I only ever fit weapons that use physical ammunition if I know I'm not leaving the bubble for any length of time because you just don't get enough ammo, with any of them.

Synthesis allows you to re-supply ammo on the fly.

 

[Legacy_LuckyLuke]

Multi cannons rock. Cannons, not so much.

 

[DefiledDragon]

Synthesis allows you to re-supply ammo on the fly.

Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not in the game right now to look, but can't you craft ammunition for the multi-cannon using items picked up on planets?

Ahh, now that I didn't know, thanks for the tip. I've not messed with the crafting stuff, is there a mod or something I need to buy to do it?

 

[Unfluffydave]

I used to have a pair of gimballed cannons on my Cobra 3 and they worked well. Since horizons though they seemed quite a bit less accurate so I have gone back to the standard unimaginitive laser/multicannon combo.

 

[Legacy_LuckyLuke]

Ahh, now that I didn't know, thanks for the tip. I've not messed with the crafting stuff, is there a mod or something I need to buy to do it?

It's part of Horizons (v2.0)

 

[CTCParadox]

Cannons have a lower damage penalty when firing against the hulls of larger ships.
They help little ships kill big ships.
I have an iEagle with 2 x C1F Beams and 1 x C2F Cannon. Works pretty well for HIRES.

CMDR CTCParadox

 

[Soothsayer]

Cannons supposedly deal lots of subsystem damage, but for general-purpose use, they're just too unwieldy. The amount of downtime required to properly line up shots utterly kills your effective sustained DPS. Since hull is pretty much equal to hitpoints, cannons are therefore not particularly viable on most setups. They're gimmicky niche weapons, kind of like railguns and PAs. Multicannons, on the other hand, are fantastic at shredding hulls, taking down shields, and doing consistent subsystem damage -- and they have a fair bit of range, to boot. They may have uses against larger ships, but the tradeoff in general-purpose viability is just far too great.

So, skip cannons. They're in a bad state right now. When their velocity is high enough to even be taken seriously, maybe they'll be a bit better.

 

[Crazy Jedi]

Both my Cobra and Asp sport a pair of class 2 canon. They're range and rate of fire is pants but the close in damage is a boon . I like em

 

[Dr Roly]

Cannons are great. Small cannons don't have the same penalty vs med and lg ships that small multis do. They also have a relatively fast muzzle velocity, making them more accurate than larger cannons. If you have small weapon slots, filling them with cannons is a good choice.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Try Enforcer cannons: slower fire than the equivalent multicannon, but twice as damaging and nice amount of ammo. Stick four on an Asp with beam lasers and its great.

 

[Mr_Blastman]

I use regular cannons for tax collecting because well... lore. Nothin' like sailin' lead shot across ye mark's bow to get a point across.

 

[Soothsayer]

Cannons are great. Small cannons don't have the same penalty vs med and lg ships that small multis do. They also have a relatively fast muzzle velocity, making them more accurate than larger cannons. If you have small weapon slots, filling them with cannons is a good choice.

People need to understand that sustained, effective DPS relies heavily on being able to put damage on your target quickly, as soon as possible, with a minimum of fuss. Elite's hull damage mechanic is an amoeboid hit point system, so DPS is everything. Cannons are awful in that regard. Perhaps they have marginally more sustained DPS on paper than multicannons -- although I'm not sure -- but their tendency to deal ~1 - 2% hull damage for no apparent reason, as well as their slow rate of fire and rather low velocity, makes them poor overall. There's also the fact that subsystems, notably power plants, are easy to shred with multicannons. Not so with cannons, in my experience.

Whenever I use cannons, I'm thinking to myself "how many multicannon rounds could I have unloaded into this guy by now? Why am I using weapons with substantially less de facto sustained damage? I just chipped off 6% of this guy's hull -- but I could've probably shredded over 20% of his hull by now if I'd been using multicannons."

I'm not sure if hit chance is still a thing in WoW these days, but I recall it as being one of the most important elements for melee DPS. Missing, even if it was only every now and again, would significantly hurt your sustained DPS in a raid encounter because it equated to downtime -- especially with a heavy, slow, two-handed weapon. Chance to hit therefore took precedence over stats that emphasized raw DPS, like strength, until a hit cap of some sort was achieved. In Elite, there isn't any equivalent to "hit chance" aside from player skill -- you can't install software or hardware upgrades to give you a better chance at landing a shot. You have to line up your shots and wait, which is time that could be spent hitting your target instead of suffering downtime. Moreover, you *will* miss more with cannons, since their projectile velocity is slow enough that even slight changes in a target's flight pattern can throw your shot off.

So, there's the case against cannons. As far as I'm concerned, their only use is either stacking cannons on every hardpoint and brute forcing your way through a target with huge alpha damage, hopefully destroying its power plant within one or two volleys, or opting not to use them altogether. They're just... eugh.

 

[Malkevin]

Cannons, bizarrely, work better on smaller, more maneuverable, frames.
On bigger hulls you just can't get in position efficently enough to fire enough rounds on target to be effective.

Gimballed cannons on something like a viper or DBS will allow you to get so close you can't miss their power plant, which is still the headshot of the game.

 

[Soothsayer]

Cannons, bizarrely, work better on smaller, more maneuverable, frames.
On bigger hulls you just can't get in position efficently enough to fire enough rounds on target to be effective.

Gimballed cannons on something like a viper or DBS will allow you to get so close you can't miss their power plant, which is still the headshot of the game.

Cannons are still frustrating to use against smaller, more maneuverable targets. Even in something as agile as an Eagle, staying behind an NPC flying around in one of the many fairly maneuverable ships in the game is kind of difficult. Not to mention they're easy to shred anyway with multicannons, so...

Perhaps cannons do have niche uses against subsystems and such, but you can shred power plants pretty quickly with more bog-standard loadouts in an ideal position, too. 4 gimballed cannons on a Viper might work pretty well, but I honestly want to see cannons being useful past an extreme niche that nobody really uses. Same with missiles, railguns, et cetera. Weapon balance in general is just ridiculous in this game.

 

[Dr Roly]

People need to understand that sustained, effective DPS relies heavily on being able to put damage on your target quickly, as soon as possible, with a minimum of fuss. Elite's hull damage mechanic is an amoeboid hit point system, so DPS is everything. Cannons are awful in that regard. Perhaps they have marginally more sustained DPS on paper than multicannons -- although I'm not sure -- but their tendency to deal ~1 - 2% hull damage for no apparent reason, as well as their slow rate of fire and rather low velocity, makes them poor overall. There's also the fact that subsystems, notably power plants, are easy to shred with multicannons. Not so with cannons, in my experience.

Whenever I use cannons, I'm thinking to myself "how many multicannon rounds could I have unloaded into this guy by now? Why am I using weapons with substantially less de facto sustained damage? I just chipped off 6% of this guy's hull -- but I could've probably shredded over 20% of his hull by now if I'd been using multicannons."

I'm not sure if hit chance is still a thing in WoW these days, but I recall it as being one of the most important elements for melee DPS. Missing, even if it was only every now and again, would significantly hurt your sustained DPS in a raid encounter because it equated to downtime -- especially with a heavy, slow, two-handed weapon. Chance to hit therefore took precedence over stats that emphasized raw DPS, like strength, until a hit cap of some sort was achieved. In Elite, there isn't any equivalent to "hit chance" aside from player skill -- you can't install software or hardware upgrades to give you a better chance at landing a shot. You have to line up your shots and wait, which is time that could be spent hitting your target instead of suffering downtime. Moreover, you *will* miss more with cannons, since their projectile velocity is slow enough that even slight changes in a target's flight pattern can throw your shot off.

So, there's the case against cannons. As far as I'm concerned, their only use is either stacking cannons on every hardpoint and brute forcing your way through a target with huge alpha damage, hopefully destroying its power plant within one or two volleys, or opting not to use them altogether. They're just... eugh.

I think both have their place. There's a lot of factors: PvP or PvE? Flying a slow or fast ship? Instant firepower and low rof vs high rof and a spin-up delay.

 

[cluelessforumuser65578]

i use 3 large cannons on my python, super effective for single kill missions. pythons clippers and orcas would be dead before my fsd span back up, they will rip up corvettes and condas in a satisfactory manner also.