Are enemy faction ships supposed to register as Clean?

[louthelou]

Simply, title. Are we supposed to be racking up criminal bounties in the systems of opposing factions - even those of opposing major factions (Empire/Fed/Alliance)?
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I'm pledged to Aisling Duval (Empire). I am in a Zachary Hudson (Federation) control system. To "disupt [his] grip" on the system, I'm supposed to kill Federal Logistics vessels and turn in the proof. Trouble is, they register as Clean, not Enemy.
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Is this intended? Do NPC ships only register as Enemy in Military Strikes and when they're interdicting you, or what? Isn't any ship belonging to an opposing faction an Enemy?
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I'd seen previous statements of worry from people concerned with the idea of basically splitting their colonized galaxy access in half, but I thought I remembered someone saying that wouldn't be an issue. Perhaps I remembered wrong.

 

[Zulu Romeo]

Working as intended.

Basically, you're in the enemy's home, where they are clean according to their local laws. You are the one who is causing a ruckus by killing those poor Federal Logistics vessels who are only fortifying their home territory. They have every right to defend themselves.

You are the invader.

 

[louthelou]

The only issue with that is I am then Wanted to everyone, not just the opposing faction and NPCs in that system. Members of MY OWN faction could then kill me in that system (or any system, with a KW scanner) and collect on my bounty simply because I was taking the specified action to further my faction's interests in that system. I'm collecting pre-1.3 punishments for engaging in post-1.3 actions. That's a problem.

 

[Major Slaughter]

The only issue with that is I am then Wanted to everyone, not just the opposing faction and NPCs in that system. Members of MY OWN faction could then kill me in that system and collect on my bounty simply because I was taking the specified action to further my faction's interests in that system. I'm collecting pre-1.3 punishments for engaging in post-1.3 actions. That's a problem.

+1 to this

 

[Evang]

I have the same problem. Im pledged to Arrisa duval. So I go to winters and Im supposed to kill federal aid ships. As soon as I enter federal air space, iM labeled hostile. Even though Im ranked a post commander. Ok I say, so I interdict one of the aid ships, I get a bounty, I start shooting, I get another bounty, I kill him and get a final bounty. I killed two of them, now Im hostile, wanted and have a 12000 credit bounty on my head all for a measly 30 points to hand in. You get 15 for each kill. But what am I supposed to get a 6000 bounty on my head each time I kill one in support of my faction?

 

[Archgeek]

Welp, the hostile thing's just how it is when you're in another power's turf. The major faction has no beef with you, and the local cops will leave you alone, but they'll also turn a blind eye to attacks on you by agents of the controlling Power.
Perhaps you can interdict (not a crime), fly around, scan, and vex aid ships until they fire on you? I'm not sure if they'll get bounties or not, but if they do, then laser school's in session. Otherwise, yeah, that's kinda nasty. You could lose rep with your own major faction just trying to work for your Power. Perhaps they can make such bounties go away if your Power gains control, by way of them using their influence to strike your "crimes" from the public records, also restoring your major faction rep?

 

[louthelou]

Another reason bounties should not be part of this equation: defecting. If I rack up a bunch of bounties in Zachary Hudson's control systems and then decide I want to defect to him, there will end up being a period of time in which my Elite life would be VERY difficult - not (only) because I was being chased by Hunters from the faction I left, but because I would be Wanted in all the systems it would then by my job to help. Were it a real situation, one of the conditions for my defection would be the elimination of all hostilities with the faction I was defecting to (they don't need to love me (duh, I've been screwing with them until now), but bounties? yeah, no). Kind of makes sense; if faction A wants to kill me and I'm currently "safe" with faction B (unless someone KW scans me (again, this is broken)), why would I leave faction B and make them want to kill me if faction A is also going to continue to want to kill me? Derp.
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The criminal justice system and the Powerplay system should be separate. Put another way, you should not be required to become a criminal to participate fully in Powerplay (as is apparently required when undermining). After all, soldiers are not usually considered to be criminals.

 

[fergal]

I have the same problem. Im pledged to Arrisa duval. So I go to winters and Im supposed to kill federal aid ships. As soon as I enter federal air space, iM labeled hostile. Even though Im ranked a post commander. Ok I say, so I interdict one of the aid ships, I get a bounty, I start shooting, I get another bounty, I kill him and get a final bounty. I killed two of them, now Im hostile, wanted and have a 12000 credit bounty on my head all for a measly 30 points to hand in. You get 15 for each kill. But what am I supposed to get a 6000 bounty on my head each time I kill one in support of my faction?

yes.
You are killing civilians behind enemy lines.
Of course they think you are a criminal.
You are only wanted in that system though.

Just because the empire gives you a mission to kill someone doesn't mean everyone in the galaxy is fine with it.

 

[louthelou]

yes.
You are killing civilians behind enemy lines.
Of course they think you are a criminal.
You are only wanted in that system though.

Just because the empire gives you a mission to kill someone doesn't mean everyone in the galaxy is fine with it.

They're members of an opposing faction, they should be fair targets. And you may only have a collectable bounty in that one system, but you are Wanted everywhere to anyone with a kill warrant scanner, even members of your own faction (whom you are helping through the actions that got you the bounty).
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If your faction gives you a mission and you complete it, your fellow faction members should not then have the ability to kill you and collect money.

 

[fergal]

They're members of an opposing faction, they should be fair targets. And you may only have a collectable bounty in that one system, but you are Wanted everywhere to anyone with a kill warrant scanner, even members of your own faction (whom you are helping through the actions that got you the bounty).
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If your faction gives you a mission and you complete it, your fellow faction members should not then have the ability to kill you and collect money.

The federation is putting a price on your head. Unscrupulous people form your faction may try to get that, but they will be breaking the local law to do so, so they will be wanted for 7 days is you are back in Imperial space.

I do know what you mean though. Last cycle I was in Winters space with a 300000+ cr bounty on me, while there was a wing of 4 other players from my power in the same system with similar bounties, and a player forma different power (but still miperial) with several hundred thousand on his head.

We all got down to the business of killing the feds, but I was very wary that someone might try for a little bonus.
I think most player in PP so far are not motivated my money, and there seems to be some faction loyalty going on, but I'm sure there will be players who kill members of their own Power.

I'm wanted for 6 more days in my capital right now. That makes it a bit more exciting to dock there in open

 

[X-Terminator]

"I'm wanted for 6 more days in my capital right now" - to rid this just take a Sidey and crash into their station and die. You are then clean unless you get a KWScanned again.

 

[Jmanis]

The only issue with that is I am then Wanted to everyone, not just the opposing faction and NPCs in that system. Members of MY OWN faction could then kill me in that system (or any system, with a KW scanner) and collect on my bounty simply because I was taking the specified action to further my faction's interests in that system. I'm collecting pre-1.3 punishments for engaging in post-1.3 actions. That's a problem.

Yes, people from your *power* could kill you to claim the bounty on your head. They'd also cop a merit penalty for killing a ship from their own power, so it's not a "only positives" outcome.

I don't think it's terribly unrealistic for someone from the same power to look at you and go "Hmmm, I could kill you and get a 1m credit bounty, but damage the loyalty I've built with my power...." That's the way bounties are supposed to work. They are supposed to turn people on the same side against themselves.

Think of it like this. You and your mate go rob a bank for $30,000, and your mate promises you a 50% cut. It works, but your mates identity and role are compromised. You are still safe and unknown, and help him out. Then a bounty of $50,000 (which is more than you'd get from your mate) is put on their head. The big question now is; How much is your loyalty worth?

 

[louthelou]

The federation is putting a price on your head. Unscrupulous people form your faction may try to get that, but they will be breaking the local law to do so, so they will be wanted for 7 days is you are back in Imperial space.

I do know what you mean though. Last cycle I was in Winters space with a 300000+ cr bounty on me, while there was a wing of 4 other players from my power in the same system with similar bounties, and a player forma different power (but still miperial) with several hundred thousand on his head.

We all got down to the business of killing the feds, but I was very wary that someone might try for a little bonus.
I think most player in PP so far are not motivated my money, and there seems to be some faction loyalty going on, but I'm sure there will be players who kill members of their own Power.

I'm wanted for 6 more days in my capital right now. That makes it a bit more exciting to dock there in open

Yes, people from your *power* could kill you to claim the bounty on your head. They'd also cop a merit penalty for killing a ship from their own power, so it's not a "only positives" outcome.

I don't think it's terribly unrealistic for someone from the same power to look at you and go "Hmmm, I could kill you and get a 1m credit bounty, but damage the loyalty I've built with my power...." That's the way bounties are supposed to work. They are supposed to turn people on the same side against themselves.

Think of it like this. You and your mate go rob a bank for $30,000, and your mate promises you a 50% cut. It works, but your mates identity and role are compromised. You are still safe and unknown, and help him out. Then a bounty of $50,000 (which is more than you'd get from your mate) is put on their head. The big question now is; How much is your loyalty worth?

Exactly. It's almost like FD encourages players to cause each other grief through the rules they set. Like, not even just fighting and killing each other, but specifically causing each other distress above and beyond simply losing a fight and/or some time - for example, giving your fellow members a reason to teamkill you.
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"Here, work together towards a common goal - but only as long as your greed will allow you to, and there's no telling how long that is! Mwahahahahahahaha!" Sadists, the lot (with the exception of Sarah Jane Avoy (name/spelling? memory's kinda shoddy these days); she's my hero).