Are missiles making a comeback?

[Martian Successor]

On more thing to add; going silent running breaks missile lock.

Missiles have indeed become a viable weapon now. Torpedoes as well although torps are slower (so higher chances of being shot down by point defence) and they have considerably less ammo. Both do a healthy amount of splash damage and can cripple weapon hardpoints, sensors, modules and engines (anything that sticks out on a ship basically) in as few as two hits.

Point defence is a little underwhelming in defending against missiles and torpedoes fired by a person in my experiences. It misses a lot and sometimes doesn't even fire at all - I tested this with a fellow commander by putting 2 point defences on a Viper MKIII. He fired 2 torpedoes at me from straight on at a distance of 1.6KM (slower than missiles remember) and my 2 point defences missed them both!

We then tested him firing a single torpedo from the farthest distance that a torpedo lock on is possible (I can't recall the KM) and with him above my ship, right where the point defence will have the best chance to shoot it down. Both point defences did not fire even though they were on and had sustained no prior damage. In another test with missiles the point defence faired a bit better and managed to shoot some down but not as effectively as I would have expected. Point defence produces meh results. It still beats having to put an ECM on the secondary fire button but point defence is unreliable in my opinion.

Of note is that point defence can be bypassed by being closer to your target when firing missiles/torps because it can't react to them fast enough at close distance. Additionally it is good to keep in mind that if a missile explodes close to your ship (whether you fired it or not) you will still sustain some damage due its area of effect - so point defence destroying missiles close to your ship means you will still sustain damage. Reactive armour is your best bet against missiles and torps because it has increased resistance against explosives.

That's all I got so far

 

[anikaiful]

Missiles have indeed become a viable weapon now. Torpedoes as well although torps are slower (so higher chances of being shot down by point defence) and they have considerably less ammo. Both do a healthy amount of splash damage and can cripple weapon hardpoints, sensors, modules and engines (anything that sticks out on a ship basically) in as few as two hits.

Point defence is a little underwhelming in defending against missiles and torpedoes fired by a person in my experiences. It misses a lot and sometimes doesn't even fire at all - I tested this with a fellow commander by putting 2 point defences on a Viper MKIII. He fired 2 torpedoes at me from straight on at a distance of 1.6KM (slower than missiles remember) and my 2 point defences missed them both!

We then tested him firing a single torpedo from the farthest distance that a torpedo lock on is possible (I can't recall the KM) and with him above my ship, right where the point defence will have the best chance to shoot it down. Both point defences did not fire even though they were on and had sustained no prior damage. In another test with missiles the point defence faired a bit better and managed to shoot some down but not as effectively as I would have expected. Point defence produces meh results. It still beats having to put an ECM on the secondary fire button but point defence is unreliable in my opinion.

Of note is that point defence can be bypassed by being closer to your target when firing missiles/torps because it can't react to them fast enough at close distance. Additionally it is good to keep in mind that if a missile explodes close to your ship (whether you fired it or not) you will still sustain some damage due its area of effect - so point defence destroying missiles close to your ship means you will still sustain damage. Reactive armour is your best bet against missiles and torps because it has increased resistance against explosives.

That's all I got so far

To point out one thing. You generally might want 2 PDs. One above, and one below the ship - they can't shoot thro your own hull any better than turrets can. This isn't so much an issue with small and nimble ships, but might be worthwhile to remember with big ones.

 

[Red Fox Four]

Which isn't possible any more, IIRC.
Missiles and torpedos now have a minimal traveling time until they are primed. 'Point blank' is increased to round about 800-1000 m.

Edit: ninjad (including answer! ). Have Dumpfires no arming time, Anikaiful?

Uh, I fired missiles with my iEagle at <500m and they did impact and did damage to modules.

Also noted that when an enemy Asp was facing me and I fired 2-3 missiles at his hardpoints it would destroy all 6 hardpoints and not just the one I aimed for. Literally disarmed the Asp in very short time with C2 missiles.

 

[Tikigod]

Uh, I fired missiles with my iEagle at <500m and they did impact and did damage to modules.

Also noted that when an enemy Asp was facing me and I fired 2-3 missiles at his hardpoints it would destroy all 6 hardpoints and not just the one I aimed for. Literally disarmed the Asp in very short time with C2 missiles.

Indeed.

When I was still using the Viper Mk 4 I'd do against Dropships even and be taking their drives out in 1 or 2 volleys of 2x size 2 seekers depending on the NPC rating. Once their drives are out, that's it you've won. Would check other modules after drives were down and most weapons would typically be destroyed along with very few rare externals still left with moderate health.

I've found firing too close before they can arm leads to smaller radius minor damage relative to what could have been done... but when we're talking about the kind of module meltage that missiles now offer, against weaker targets or hulls with externals bunched up together you'll probably never really notice the drop unless you go looking for it. lol

 

[anikaiful]

Have Dumpfires no arming time, Anikaiful?[/I]

The blow up on impact. Haven't registered them requiring arming time - they're primed from launch. That's why I said that if you launch them too close, watch it, as you will be at the receiving end of the blast too.

 

[Minoo Minou]

Always have use missiles, I love them for disabling weapons and dispatch small preys.

 

[Godtron]

II could swear cannons are better as well now.

 

[Edelgard von Rhein]

Yes, missiles are now dangerous to the extent that, if I want a combat-rigged ship to engage an NPC opponent armed with them, PDTs are essential. Heat sinks can decoy missiles and going cold throws the lock, if you are more than ~300m away, so if you only need to avoid one or two interdictions on a journey then that gives you a chance to escape. Also, the faster your ship, the lower the speed differential and the more time a PDT has to shoot down an incoming missile.
.
A couple of examples of my recent encounters highlights the new dangers for me:
Example 1: I visited a normal RES in my Imperial Courier (which has a PDT) and a Dangerous-ranked NPC Asp armed with, iirc, medium rails and four small missile launchers attacked me: I ran and had trouble avoiding his railguns but I don't think more than a single missile hit and I was able to escape with my shield intact.
Example 2: I entered a Weapons Fire signal source (threat 1) in my Combat-rigged Cobra Mk3 that I had previously been comfortable with in Low-intensity CZ and find a wanted NPC Expert-ranked Viper Mk4 (not in a wing) and two other ships. The Viper Mk4 quickly opens fire (I barely had time to finish my basic scan) with gimballed beams and a volley of missiles, whilst one of the other ships (I didn't see what type but from the limited multicannon fire hitting my shields I don't think it was more than an Eagle) joins in. As we started out facing each other and heading towards each other, it was not possible to evade the first volleys and I lose two shield rings and decide to clear out - the third goes before my shield cell can kick in but the chaff keeps his beams at bay and my heat sinks then throw off most of the remaining missiles. I escaped with only a few percent hull damage and minimal module damage (mirror armour with a grade one heavy duty armour mod). The moment I docked I replaced the heat sink with a PDT and got rid of the shield cells (as they would cook my ship without the heat sink).

 

[crushdepth]

Missiles have indeed become a viable weapon now. Torpedoes as well although torps are slower (so higher chances of being shot down by point defence) and they have considerably less ammo. Both do a healthy amount of splash damage and can cripple weapon hardpoints, sensors, modules and engines (anything that sticks out on a ship basically) in as few as two hits.

Point defence is a little underwhelming in defending against missiles and torpedoes fired by a person in my experiences. It misses a lot and sometimes doesn't even fire at all - I tested this with a fellow commander by putting 2 point defences on a Viper MKIII. He fired 2 torpedoes at me from straight on at a distance of 1.6KM (slower than missiles remember) and my 2 point defences missed them both!

We then tested him firing a single torpedo from the farthest distance that a torpedo lock on is possible (I can't recall the KM) and with him above my ship, right where the point defence will have the best chance to shoot it down. Both point defences did not fire even though they were on and had sustained no prior damage. In another test with missiles the point defence faired a bit better and managed to shoot some down but not as effectively as I would have expected. Point defence produces meh results. It still beats having to put an ECM on the secondary fire button but point defence is unreliable in my opinion.

Of note is that point defence can be bypassed by being closer to your target when firing missiles/torps because it can't react to them fast enough at close distance. Additionally it is good to keep in mind that if a missile explodes close to your ship (whether you fired it or not) you will still sustain some damage due its area of effect - so point defence destroying missiles close to your ship means you will still sustain damage. Reactive armour is your best bet against missiles and torps because it has increased resistance against explosives.

That's all I got so far

I don't think I have ever been hit by a missile with point defence, although as anikaiful said I generally try to cover multiple arcs.

My favourite PD moment was when some skimmers started launching missiles as I was fleeing towards my parked ship in a scarab. I thought I was toast, but the ship's point defence opened up over my head and took the missiles out. I have been in love with PD ever since

 

[W4rSkuLL]

I got into a scrap with a mid level Cobra and he tossed quite a few missiles my way.

Since 2.1 I always carry PDT's. Matter of fact, I carry two- one on top and on bottom of my Python. I figure 2 gives me added security no matter where the missile comes from.

The light show is pretty cool too. I couldn't figure out where the blue-green tracers where coming from followed by an explosion in my face. Then it dawned on me that my counter measures where actually doing their job.

I don't normally use ECM since I can't bind a key to it like I can with chaff. I use VA, so thats one less button to push when all I have to do is say the magic word.

We need the ability to say more magic words

 

[Nerwan]

It all depends.. if you're primary strategy is shield tanking it's probably far better to simply invest your utility slots in doing that more effectively and simply never ever lose your shields. If you regularly lose your shields because you're using a hybrid strategy or a silent ship etc then yes point defense is probably a really good idea now.

 

[Julio Montega]

And if you fire missiles or torps point blank, PD has no time to react to them anyway.

Doesn't work that way, unless your point blank is 500-600 meters for missiles and 2 km for torps,
they have arming times you know.

But nonetheless missiles are useful,
they cannot be countered by chaff and have a long range, while still dealing
a lot of damage.

 

[Eldrazzi]

I think the ammo capacity for all missles/torps should be buffed by x2. Other than that they do wonders against external modules on bigger ships and are pretty darn good at popping the smaller ships. Try targeting the drives

 

[Deathwatch]

I think the ammo capacity for all missles/torps should be buffed by x2. Other than that they do wonders against external modules on bigger ships and are pretty darn good at popping the smaller ships. Try targeting the drives

I wouldn't say missiles should be buffed by x2 maybe torpedo's could but that would take missiles quite high.

 

[Codger]

I got a chance to use them today for the first time. I'm a rubbish combat pilot, mostly I just run away (I'm expert at escaping ) because I'm normally doing other things, trading, missions, or whatever, and I don't want to fight or risk my cargo. Plus most of my interdictions lately have been Dangerous or Deadly NPCs, and it's not prudent to engage them in a non-combat ship, especially for me.

However, I did put missles on my iEagle, just because I saw 777Driver using them on his T9.

Today for the first time, however, I got interdicted by a Novice ranked DBS Scout, while I was in my iEagle. I had no cargo at the time. I was in a High Sec system. What?! Is ED throwing me a bone at last?! I decided it was time to try out the missles. I could always still get away, my iEagle is fast with Enhanced Thrusters.

Here's the result. Notice my amazing pip management (joke -- there isn't any, missles don't need WEP).

So yeah, missles have uses. Limited ammo isn't going to cut it for any BH activity, but to defend yourself when trading or messing around in USSs like I was...very useable.

https://youtu.be/pc5uVBG_Jyc