Are some CZs harder than others? (aka Why do I suck?)

[DNA-Decay]

In a High CZ flyinga a Vulture w Overcharged Multi Cannons.

Done this before.
Plan: Sit 10 km out watching. Come close enough to scan, looking for lone reds with one or two greens. Pick them off - lick my wounds.
Maybe even let the NPC greens take down their sheilds.

What happens:
Kill one taipan.
70% hull and out of ammo go for a reload (one taipan right)
come back.
Get a FAS down to 40% hull.
NPCs wing up and I get out with no kills and 80% hull.

Recharge shields come back in,
no kills make it out with no canopy 30% hull and all from an Asp.
An Asp.

I get if there's like a capital ship in the CZ it might kill all the greens.
But in a standard CZ, plenty of greens around. Suddenly nothing goes my way.

It feels like I've gone up a Combat Rank, but I haven't.
It's like every "lone" red has a buddy. It's like every target runs back to the furball.


Is it me?
I know I say I'm pants, but I do fight enough that I have a plan and some expectations.
It's me isn't it.

 

[kpmop]

...
Recharge shields come back in,
no kills make it out with no canopy 30% hull and all from an Asp.
An Asp.
...

ha-ha ... I'll admit to be taken out by a eagles, but an asp... (a asp. a asp? a asp. a asp?)

Yeah I find CZs similar, one time I can kill everything, the next I'll get routed by a couple of eagles*. It's probably a good thing though not knowing what's going to happen - it'd be boring otherwise!

(*I usually take a vulture or icourier - not a annie etc)

 

[Chris Simon]

Hmm. Well, one thing worth mentioning - High intensity CZs are actually easier than Low intensity CZs. Maybe it was your first time in LCZ? What ranks were the ships, there?

 

[DNA-Decay]

Hmm. Well, one thing worth mentioning - High intensity CZs are actually easier than Low intensity CZs. Maybe it was your first time in LCZ? What ranks were the ships, there?

It was definitely a High CZ.
I agree they're easier.

I tried a Low CZ too and sucked there as well.

You know I couldn't tell you their ranks.
Which means I'm not reading it well enough.

 

[rucky]

Hmm. Well, one thing worth mentioning - High intensity CZs are actually easier than Low intensity CZs.

Thanx ;-) You're one of the few, that knows the truth!
I think I'd told that a few hundred times now, but still the wrong myth of HighCZ is the harder is all around...

In a High CZ flyinga a Vulture w Overcharged Multi Cannons.

Done this before.
Plan: Sit 10 km out watching. Come close enough to scan, looking for lone reds with one or two greens. Pick them off - lick my wounds.
Maybe even let the NPC greens take down their sheilds.

What happens:
Kill one taipan.
70% hull and out of ammo go for a reload (one taipan right)
come back.
Get a FAS down to 40% hull.
NPCs wing up and I get out with no kills and 80% hull.

Recharge shields come back in,
no kills make it out with no canopy 30% hull and all from an Asp.
An Asp.

I get if there's like a capital ship in the CZ it might kill all the greens.
But in a standard CZ, plenty of greens around. Suddenly nothing goes my way.

It feels like I've gone up a Combat Rank, but I haven't.
It's like every "lone" red has a buddy. It's like every target runs back to the furball.


Is it me?
I know I say I'm pants, but I do fight enough that I have a plan and some expectations.
It's me isn't it.

inb4 the GidGud-Armada arrives.

I also shown this a few times.
If the CZ is too hard, change the side. Or the other way around...

Here is some example with pics only a few weeks ago, from Live, where I was hunted and outnumbered more than 10:1 between a few minutes only!!! (and this three-times-in-a-row!)

I'm still not sure why sometimes CZs are super-easy and sometimes I get swarmed after only a few minutes in.
Also sometimes I only get dangerous and above opponents (thats when things get hearty) and sometimes - mostly the other side then - only competent and alike...
(often I do such missions for both sides, to 1) get allied with them and 2) see which side offers the better missions later on (these 10++M missions...)

Perhaps it depends on which side is loosing and/or how long the war is already going...

 

[rucky]

One thing needs to be mentioned:

It definitively depends on your actual used fire power relative to your allied ones.

If the enemies see you're hitting harder/hardest, you will get Public Enemy No. 1, literally.

I've seen that multiple times, at the beginning I only use my Beams (longrange, turreted) and Pulse (focused, gimballed), seldom my huge Double-MCs (incendiary overcharged gimballed) with (corrosive) small MC helping/bundled.

When I'm too lazy or too angry so I use them to kill things faster... I will get swarmed by nearly all next arriving enemy ships... so I need to use my full fire power to get them killed even faster.... which means even more swarming enemys...
;-)
vicious circle that is...

If opponents are expert and below I get things handled very fast and literally WIN the combat zone.
(that is I have to wait up to minutes until the next victims arrive, and we outnumber them 20:1... at least ;-)
I only get stopped by that demonic black screen Bug (or the transaction or whatever server error).
But when there's only dangerous to elite.... oh boy... I have to go after 20 minutes or such because out-of-SCBs...)

 

[d8veh]

One thing that might help. use premium synthesised ammo, which will do 30% more damage, so faster kills.

The spawns in CZs vary. Sometimes the reds get the upper hand, sometimes the greens and sometimes it stays even. It takes about 10 minutes for things to settle down, and it could be your own firepower that makes the difference. After 10 minutes, if there's more reds than greens, jump out and back in again until you get a spawn where the greens get on top. Sometimes, there's only greens on the field and as soon as any reds jump in, they get immediately ganked by 20 greens. That's when you can cash in.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

…
Is it me?
I know I say I'm pants, but I do fight enough that I have a plan and some expectations.
It's me isn't it.

Yes, it's you.

NPCs in combat zones can be very different between "instances". Sometimes I have to flee the CZ within seconds, sometimes I can stay a long time. To me it looks like the spawn of the CZ can be very different and depending on ship used this can have a really negative affect on the survivability of the player.

Don't worry about the Taipan - SPF have really good weapons for their size. If you use multi canons - don't waste your ammunition against SLF. It's much easier to kill the mothership (but some are apparently without a mothership, in that case just jump out).
Noting wrong with running a way a few times or jumping out now an then.

You might want to rethink your choice of large MCs on the Vulture. The time it takes them to start firing is just to long for fights against small and fast ships.

 

[GODofDUTY83]

Dont go solo in the CZ.
Find a nice big friendly and stick to it. Attack what it attacks and back it up.
You'll always get an NPC that tries to draw you away from the pack. Its luring you out for an ambush. When this hppens focus on another target. Vultures are good fighter but they need the support of the pack in a CZ.

 

[sqzbox1]

Agreed on all of the above. It's the damned rail guns that I hate - every second ship seems to have them and they have endless ammo, no recharge time between shots, and never miss. One of the techniques I have discovered though, is not to engage quickly. When you arrive fly out a bit and sit and watch until everybody is engaged and there are no big groupings of reds. It takes a minute or three after all the spawning is complete for it all to settle down. If you charge in guns blazing too quickly then all the reds will target you. Wait a bit for the hoards to thin a bit. and most ships to be engaged. Then pick something on the edge and work your way in slowly. And if you have the time then check the loadouts and avoid the rail ships if you can.

 

[Ism]

BIG NONO in CZ. Don't do the most DPS (become the biggest threat) to the ship that's being attacked by your side else you will be the focus of his buddies retaliation (unless that's what you want).
Hit it a couple times every so often to make sure you get the kill, but let the other ships do the most damage. You will almost never be targeted as a threat.

DON'T pick out the lone fighter and draw it away....That used to be a good mechanic, but they communicate with each other...If you look you might see .."I'm under attack".
T-9 and Conda's do it a lot. That's when Eagles and Vipers get on your tail. If you have engineered shields it will be fine for a few. But if a Vulture or Asp get on your tail with rails or PA, your shields wont hold up very long.

Best is to is watch your contacts panel when you drop in. Make sure odds are even or in your favor, then get about 5 clicks away from the action and pick your side.

One of the best instances is when you drop in to 3-6 of your side flying around without opposition.
I immediately side up and wait for the enemy to drop in. Pause for a second and see which ship they swarm (usually the first drop or largest of multiples) and then try to get a few shots in before it vaporizes.

[One other note], be aware when taking on Deadly and Dangerous class. They have unreasonable flight mechanics IMO.
I think they have them mixed up with Expert and Elite. I would rather fight an Elite than a Dangerous class enemy EVERY time.

That especially rings true in HAZ RES. The Dangerous Conda's seem to have the best armor and many have 8 SCB's. Once I finally take down the shields, it takes forever to bring down the power plant let alone the hull.
Partly because I can't get a shot on the PP, they can spin around in their Conda and and face my Vulture before I can even get a shot off.

On the other hand, Elite flight mechanics seem reasonable to me in relationship to the Vulture.

Lastly don't give up, you will get better. I came back from a couple months exploring and felt the same. But after a few fight's in CZ and RES I figured out how to stay alive longer...You will also.
It will become fun again, especially if you have Engineers.

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

I was in my Anaconda in the CG CZs this morning.

It all started off well, I'd raked in millions.
(And lost nearly all my SLFs! Lol)
Then i was killing a lone Anaconda.
Then another ship joined it, and i just ignored it.
Then another.
Then another.
This is my usual routine, as small ships aren't much a threat.



And then my shields dropped rapidly.

Turns out I'd been ignoring two Anacondas and a Python. Lol

I had to wake out pretty quick.

Sometimes i believe the CZ just says "No more!" and throws everything it has at you.

 

[Chris Simon]

I was in my Anaconda in the CG CZs this morning.

It all started off well, I'd raked in millions.
(And lost nearly all my SLFs! Lol)
Then i was killing a lone Anaconda.
Then another ship joined it, and i just ignored it.
Then another.
Then another.
This is my usual routine, as small ships aren't much a threat.



And then my shields dropped rapidly.

Turns out I'd been ignoring two Anacondas and a Python. Lol

I had to wake out pretty quick.

Sometimes i believe the CZ just says "No more!" and throws everything it has at you.

It's called "drawing aggro"
The more damage you do, the more interesting a target you are for the enemy. That's why I always say small, fast, stealthy ships are the best for CZ.

Recently I was doing some CZs in my "anti-griefer" Courier. C2 shields, single plasma slug rail gun, 720 m/s. I haven't been shot at once in three days.

 

[AceFlares]

Last night I decided to head to a High CZ and for the first few minutes it was the most fun I'd had in Elite. I've not been in a high CZ for a while, so was highly surprised when a Farragut Battle Cruiser jumped in on my side. Unfortunately that turned the CZ into a low money (for an hour approx 750k) but very lucrative material scavenging zone because the AI where blowing away the respawning opposition so quickly. There was one cool moment that I wish was recorded, when an an enemy Anaconda spawned, under fire from the capital and escorts full speed rammed the Battle Cruiser and bounced off.

 

[Comrade Napoleon]

It's called "drawing aggro"
The more damage you do, the more interesting a target you are for the enemy. That's why I always say small, fast, stealthy ships are the best for CZ.

Recently I was doing some CZs in my "anti-griefer" Courier. C2 shields, single plasma slug rail gun, 720 m/s. I haven't been shot at once in three days.

Yep, as has been stated elsewhere also: no alpha strike weaponry in CZ, as in Rez site. Too much aggro, rather a long but consistent stream of of damage pouring out, keeping aggro below the radar, and noone will take particular interest.
Rez is different, as long you are not hostile to any faction, its a killing field..

Cheers Cmdr's

 

[Faded Glory]

On the very rare occasions that I do CZ, always in a Vulture, I have found that sometimes I can stay with no problems and make a million or so in combat bonds, and other times I'm lucky if I can take one ship down before having to retreat.

Certain things make them particularly challenging (at least from my experience), one being if there is a capital ship on the opposing team. Otherwise, I guess it's just random spawning, sometimes it's favorable, sometimes not.

For what it's worth, I think FD should make CZ difficult, at least there should be a level of CZ that is consistently challenging, be it high intensity, low intensity or perhaps something new... and rather than have them as farming locations, have them provide the edge of the seat combat against multiple tough enemies that some players seem to want so badly. It would make sense, after all players are going there to fight willingly.

 

[Han_Zen]

Pretty sure the NPCs in CZ use the 'select highest threat' function, when they need a target.

If you have high temp, central position and fire power, you get selected by most.

 

[the100thmonkey]

A lot of the fire you draw in a CZ is incidental, often from larger vessels with turreted weapons. They target you at range so you get the shield splash without taking much in the way of real damage. It's when you hear the first railgun impact that you have to seriously take notice. They're usually fired by small, fast and manoeuvrable ships. When you hear the first round(s) hit, just drop whatever you're engaging and boost away - you'll pull the smaller ships with you while the bigger ships will probably take fire from another vessel and switch their focus. Even if they don't, they're slower than you.

In other words, your first reaction to taking serious fire from a ship you're not focussing on should be to get some distance. Every time. Sure, it will slow you down, but dying will slow you down more, and you'll lose any bonds you've gained. If it's rails, run. If it's laser fire, you should assess the situation by targetting the highest threat - that will usually be the ship that fired on you last, although missiles in the CZ can interfere with target selection. If that doesn't work, cycling through the enemy targets to the ship that's flashing on the scanner does the same, although it can take a little longer.

It feels unnatural to do it, but if you're engaging a railgun-toting Eagle, put 4 pips to shields. You can switch up the two remaining pips between guns and engines as long as you're taking fire, and can switch away from tank mode when the other ship is boosting. The buff to resistances at 4 pips to SYS is too large to ignore. Eagles are only marginally more manoeuvrable than the Vulture, so you should have opportunity to put 4 pips to ENG reasonably often.

As for Asps, well, they often run 2 medium railguns - you need big shields to facetank those. If it's 1 on 1, you should use the agility of the Vulture to your advantage by getting close and using the thrusters to keep your ship off-bore - push towards the ship using the forward thrusters. Boosting can be extremely helpful here as it gives you a real surge to your agility which you can use to temper the forward motion with lateral and vertical movement. You should be able to finish the boost manoeuvre right on your mark, but not staring down the maw of the railguin. The Vulture is remarkable in that it can fly practically sideways at full speed on boost if you use your thrusters properly. Deadly and Elite NPCs pull off some... interesting shots with railguns (I won't say they cheat, although they do have the directional sense of William Tell.) That said, they, just like lower-ranked ships, will break off if you get nose-on to their bellies and let the guns do their thing from close-range. Basically, there are certain positions you can put your ship that will always force an NPC to break and boost away, and this can be used to your advantage. The enemy's yaw axis is really important - try to keep any movement across it.

The low-intensity CZs can either be incredibly intense or a walk in the park depending on which side is considered to be dominant. They might initially favour the faction you're fighting against, but if the war progresses in your favour, they switch. I don't know if this changes on the tick or whether it's more dynamic (that would involve mechanisms that the game doesn't otherwise employ in CZs.) One side always spawns more ships. It's low-intensity if you're on the right side.

As a final word, if you're not much busier than usual with targeting and power management in a CZ, you're probably about to lose your shields.

 

[Spacecat]

Since turning in 10 mil of combat bonds unlocking Dekker, here's my CZ advice.

1. As soon as you enter, boost to get out of the center and pick a side and work your way back in.

2. Avoid prolonged battles with strong ships. While it's tempting to go after that federal corvette with full shields, don't. Go after ships that have hull damage or have low shields, then check back on it later. While you are finishing ships off, your buddies will go weaken other ships for you. Basically like hires, but with with friendlies instead of cops. Swoop in and kill steal is the way to go and makes money the fastest.

3. If you start taking a lot of fire, head toward your buddies. They should distract the enemies firing at you.

 

[Don Alvarez]

Ignore railgun Asps at your peril. Personally, they're at the top of my pecking order. Them and Gunships.