Are the visuals by design, or a mishap?

[Deleted member 182079]

The game is either too dark (most of the time tbh), or too bright (check out Mitterand Hollow, the planet it orbits looks more like an A class star now), LOD is missing/downgraded in various areas, bloom seems missing, the dark side of planets is indistinguishable from the very, very black skybox now (the only clue that a planet is nearby is you can't see any stars there), the stars in the skybox remind me of the Starfield screensaver in Windows 95, shaders seem wrong (particularly noticeable on ship skins). The majority of PJ's I've checked out (I have quite a lot of them) seem "off" one way or another.

So this thread isn't about the performance issues that plague the game, but the really strange 'look' of it.

My first thought was "they messed this up big time".

But then I thought, what if this is by design? It can't be, right? Right?

 

[galahad2069]

The game is either too dark (most of the time tbh), or too bright (check out Mitterand Hollow, the planet it orbits looks more like an A class star now), LOD is missing/downgraded in various areas, bloom seems missing, the dark side of planets is indistinguishable from the very, very black skybox now (the only clue that a planet is nearby is you can't see any stars there), the stars in the skybox remind me of the Starfield screensaver in Windows 95, shaders seem wrong (particularly noticeable on ship skins). The majority of PJ's I've checked out (I have quite a lot of them) seem "off" one way or another.

So this thread isn't about the performance issues that plague the game, but the really strange 'look' of it.

My first thought was "they messed this up big time".

But then I thought, what if this is by design? It can't be, right? Right?

Not by design. Lazy coding and bugs:

A graphic engineer found the cause of low FPS: rendering/culling

A guy probably found the cause of the low FPS problems, check his post here: Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/nj1f5x/odyssey_renderer_is_broken_details/ This is another guy that actually showed the same problem in Alpha and made a video about it: Source...

forums.frontier.co.uk

Odyssey space has "too much contrast" - breaking down the rendering of a frame

I, as some many other people got appalled by the hideous luminance distribution and color saturation issues exhibited by the Odyssey renderer. Since I'm a computer graphics developer myself and do consulting work for critical graphics systems (think medical imaging, CT, MRI, and such) I took a...

forums.frontier.co.uk

 

[Darkman Returns]

If you haven't already then have a read of this thread on the subject: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threa...reaking-down-the-rendering-of-a-frame.577408/

 

[Morbad]

But then I thought, what if this is by design? It can't be, right? Right?

Even if one doesn't take Graphics Debugger's assessment as gospel, it's hard for me to imagine the last steps of the render pipeline described don't contain oversights or that the end result we can see in game was intended.

Most of the game still looks fine to me--my displays are fairly well calibrated--but there are still areas that are way too dark or way too bright, to the point that details that are certainly being rendered just aren't visible.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

I've read those threads, but that's outsiders assuming that FDev dropped the ball (which is a fair assumption, I would agree) - I'm just wondering whether FDev actually thinks everything looks as intended and there's no need to fix anything. Have they actually acknowledged these problems as such?

 

[Lyamecron]

I've read those threads, but that's outsiders assuming that FDev dropped the ball (which is a fair assumption, I would agree) - I'm just wondering whether FDev actually thinks everything looks as intended and there's no need to fix anything. Have they actually acknowledged these problems as such?

my issue report in the issue tracker regarding the incorrect brightness and strange gamma values was acknowledged by FDev and is now one of the highest voted issues over there. Similar issues like degraded textures of surfaces etc. are also acknowledged, so I think it's safe to say that it is not by design and that they are looking into it.

 

[galahad2069]

Have they actually acknowledged these problems as such?

What should they say?
"Sorry, but we thought it was going to be okay to render the whole carrier while you are sitting inside the hangar surrounded by walls."
I hope they will fix it at least.

 

[Helvellyn]

...the dark side of planets is indistinguishable from the very, very black skybox now (the only clue that a planet is nearby is you can't see any stars there), the stars in the skybox remind me of the Starfield screensaver in Windows 95,...

I love how space looks at the moment (some overly bright planets aside). The dark side of a planet should be indistinguishable from the black skybox, stars should be bright jewels against it (albeit not flickering ones when seen from space). The sense of flying around in space has jumped massively for me, and I'm a bit worried that'll go when the lighting glitches are fixed since it's such an improvement. Note just the black space, not all the other lighting issues.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

What should they say?
"Sorry, but we thought it was going to be okay to render the whole carrier while you are sitting inside the hangar surrounded by walls."
I hope they will fix it at least.

I'm not talking about culling/performance here - this thread is about how the game looks in terms of colours, shaders. I.e. stuff you would see in a screenshot even.

Remember when they introduced the colouring of the skybox based on the star? That was a keeper - and I'm worried to some extent the looks of the game (EDO) isn't going to change fundamentally beyond certain things (like the too dark ship HUD, or the lack of bloom).

 

[galahad2069]

Remember when they introduced the colouring of the skybox based on the star? That was a keeper - and I'm worried to some extent the looks of the game (EDO) isn't going to change fundamentally beyond certain things (like the too dark ship HUD, or the lack of bloom).

Yeah true, they have a very long record of leaving things unfixed forever.
At least I did not pay for this disaster. Now I can keep playing Horizons now and then, and watch how things unfold.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

I love how space looks at the moment (some overly bright planets aside). The dark side of a planet should be indistinguishable from the black skybox, stars should be bright jewels against it (albeit not flickering ones when seen from space). The sense of flying around in space has jumped massively for me, and I'm a bit worried that'll go when the lighting glitches are fixed since it's such an improvement. Note just the black space, not all the other lighting issues.

I think it looks awful and flat. The skybox used to be a feature you could observe changing depending on your location, now it just looks like a bunch of white pixels dotted across. It might work when planet side (especially with atmospheres) but when in your ship it's just dark, to the extent that all I see in terms of colour is the ship HUD.

I'm not convinced that it's realistic either - I've been in parts of the world with zero light pollution (Outback Australia for example) and there's still ambient light meaning it's not absolutely pitch black, and the sky does look more varied and colourful than what we see in EDO right now (plus it's still a game and should look somewhat pleasing on the eye).

 

[Deleted member 182079]

Yeah true, they have a very long record of leaving things unfixed forever.
At least I did not pay for this disaster. Now I can keep playing Horizons now and then, and watch how things unfold.

Here's the thing though - the days of Horizons in its current form are numbered - when (if?) they decide to merge it with EDO's visuals it'll look the same.

 

[Helvellyn]

I think it looks awful and flat. The skybox used to be a feature you could observe changing depending on your location, now it just looks like a bunch of white pixels dotted across. It might work when planet side (especially with atmospheres) but when in your ship it's just dark, to the extent that all I see in terms of colour is the ship HUD.

I'm not convinced that it's realistic either - I've been in parts of the world with zero light pollution (Outback Australia for example) and there's still ambient light meaning it's not absolutely pitch black, and the sky does look more varied and colourful than what we see in EDO right now (plus it's still a game and should look somewhat pleasing on the eye).

It's not entirely realistic, that's true - in a dark location on Earth (which from the eye's point of view probably won't be appreciably different from being in space) the Milky Way is a pale white (not red or brown) band across the sky. But there's not much noticeable colour other than the reddish tint of Mars and the odd star like Betelgeuse (the blue and yellow of Albireo's quite clear but you need a small telescope to see it).

It's too dark in your ship - I want to see colour there, but the skybox is definitely a move in the right direction. The brighter, more colourful "pleasing on the eye" look is less realistic and personally considerably less pleasing on the eye than a bright planetary crescent against a dark sky. Horses for courses of course.

 

[galahad2069]

Here's the thing though - the days of Horizons in its current form are numbered - when (if?) they decide to merge it with EDO's visuals it'll look the same.

Well, Horizons was supposed to merge with Odyssey a few days ago. The fact they decided to keep it separate (for now) may be a sign that they are at least aware of the situation.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

It's not entirely realistic, that's true - in a dark location on Earth (which from the eye's point of view probably won't be appreciably different from being in space) the Milky Way is a pale white (not red or brown) band across the sky. But there's not much noticeable colour other than the reddish tint of Mars and the odd star like Betelgeuse (the blue and yellow of Albireo's quite clear but you need a small telescope to see it).

It's too dark in your ship - I want to see colour there, but the skybox is definitely a move in the right direction. The brighter, more colourful "pleasing on the eye" look is less realistic and personally considerably less pleasing on the eye than a bright planetary crescent against a dark sky. Horses for courses of course.

Ultimately it's a matter of taste/preference I guess - your posts do indeed reinforce my worries that things may not change in fact - I was never a fan of the milky way bit (being brown sauce mostly) but the rest of the skybox looked colourful and varied, without overdoing it (closer to the core that's another story but I didn't mind it all the same).

I can't even remember whether nebulas such as Barnard's Loop are still visible; I could be wrong (because I didn't pay too much attention to it) but I can't actually remember seeing it (or only very faintly).

 

[rennarda]

the dark side of planets is indistinguishable from the very, very black skybox now (the only clue that a planet is nearby is you can't see any stars there)

This, at least, is accurate, and what many of us have been asking for for a long time. The only criticism I have is that with a 50% chance your surface mission is going to be in darkness, we should have night vision as standard on suits...

 

[Deleted member 182079]

This, at least, is accurate, and what many of us have been asking for for a long time. The only criticism I have is that with a 50% chance your surface mission is going to be in darkness, we should have night vision as standard on suits...

Right - I've never been in space so no idea, but from a gameplay perspective I don't think this is good; escaping the gravity well is going to be more of a chore because you have to make sure you're far away enough if your target is on the other side of the planet (eg. the entry star). I guess a workaround would be to scan it (if you carry a surface scanner that is) and switch to analysis mode. Hmpf.

 

[galahad2069]

The brighter, more colourful "pleasing on the eye" look is less realistic and personally considerably less pleasing on the eye than a bright planetary crescent against a dark sky. Horses for courses of course.

Enjoy the darkness CMDR, I'll stay with my totally unrealistic Horizons sky:

 

[rcdcce]

I have wondered if someone made the call to darken things up in order to give atmo planet visuals less to complete with, but in doing so messed every other part of the game.

There is really no excuse for it though as that can be handled other ways. Really dark is a poor design choice as this is basically a game where any common space scene is 80% crushed blacks, being projected on display technology that struggles with black more than anything else and often crushes it without the developer helping. The fact the gamma control makes no difference only highlights the technical issue.

 

[Helvellyn]

I can't even remember whether nebulas such as Barnard's Loop are still visible; I could be wrong (because I didn't pay too much attention to it) but I can't actually remember seeing it (or only very faintly).

Pretty sure I've noticed it there still. I don't mind the odd bit like that, or things being a little more colourful out at Colonia. I'd like the Milky Way extended - faint but glowing - and white, and Andromeda to look a little more like Andromeda (even though in reality it's barely visible).